PHP vs. ASP.net Question

spottedbluecat

Hi there. I want to start my own website as a hobby. I'm batting around a virtual pet site idea. Most of the virtual pet sites out there use PHP, but I've just heard about this Asp.net and wondered if it was a viable option. It seems everywhere I look people are comparing it with a serious programmer in mind. I only want to get as serious about this as I need to. A significant difference in server cost is also important. Does anyone have any ideas?

Boston

ASP.net = Microsoft proprietary ****e
PHP = open scource.

You rarely see ASP but you see PHP everywhere. Read into that what you want.

spottedbluecat

I suppose I should mention that I have had absolutely no experience with programming except for a few simple html codes. I have heard that asp.net is the "future" of programming, but I don't know if that applies to little old me doing a simple website.

Nietzschean

its easier to just go with php + mysql, set it all up in no bother on your desktop for local testing..... asp is grand, though i've not used it in years myself mostly php as as boston says its everywhere...

damnyanks

So if you are on Windows XP Pro or 2K you just install the .net framework and you're away no problems. You can also use Mono which is the open source project porting .net for other platforms.

As far as a learning curve goes, it's very simple to get some form of website up and running with asp.net and visual studio / web developer.

dob99

I use PHP myself. Have never used ASP, but it's based on Visual Basic .NET (I think), so if you've no real previous programming experience, ASP is probably easier to pick up.

The best thing to do would be to find a couple of beginner's tutorials in both and see which one you'd find easier to pick up. Try downloading VB Express (http://msdn.microsoft.com) - it's the free version of VB. It might have some samples and tutorials.

Ginger

Boston wrote:

ASP.net = Microsoft proprietary ****e
PHP = open scource.

You rarely see ASP but you see PHP everywhere. Read into that what you want.

While not wanting to get into the whole MS Vs Open Source argument (i am after all a .NET programmer), its not entirely true that you see PHP everywhere and ASP/ASP.NET is not anywhere. A lot ASP.NET apps are written as intranet/extranet style. .NET can be ran on Apache with Mono as a previous poster pointed out. Mono is open source and backed by MS. The .NET framework is fairly open. If you want you can write a compiler for any language to .NET it. There is even COBOL.NET

As for which is easier to learn that is an apples and oranges question. First I would ask how familiar are you with programming and what styles have you learnt. .NET is all object orientated. .NET is more n-tier structured than PHP but it can messed up to monolith.

At this stage you can use free tools to write both and deploy both. Its even possible to write .NET without Visual Studio, you just use the command line to compile it. While more time consuming it can be done. You can also do the same for ASP.NET files (http://www.asp101.com/articles/john/codebehindnovs/default.asp)

The only reason you will see it as the future is the MS marketing engine. They have invested heavily in the .NET framework and so are looking to cash in on that. Take it as an "oh join my team we have the best toys" sort of thing.

Anyways, there are a massive amount of resources for both out there. Best of luck on it

Ginger

dob99 wrote:

I use PHP myself. Have never used ASP, but it's based on Visual Basic .NET (I think), so if you've no real previous programming experience, ASP is probably easier to pick up.

The best thing to do would be to find a couple of beginner's tutorials in both and see which one you'd find easier to pick up. Try downloading VB Express (http://msdn.microsoft.com) - it's the free version of VB. It might have some samples and tutorials.

Its not based on VB.NET it is based on the langugage you choose to write it in and then compiled to the same code. That is what the framework is there for. You can write it in C#, C++.NET, VB.NET whatever.net it will still be the same at the end of the day. ASP on the other hand was based on either Javascript or VBScript. The main differences between ASP and ASP.NET is that .NET is compiled, ASP was interpretted at runtime.

Evil Phil

I think either language is suitable, its just up to you which way you want to go. It's almost a windows/linux choice really. I don't know a lot about php as I'm a .net developer myself. I do notice that a lot of the negative .Net comments in this thread are simply untrue.

There's a .Net IDE called sharpcode http://www.icsharpcode.net/OpenSource/SD/ that's open source.

grahamor

Boston wrote:

You rarely see ASP but you see PHP everywhere.

What a stupid and false comment that you rarely see ASP.

Also, .NET might be Microsoft but i would hardly call it sh***

The Corinthian

spottedbluecat wrote:

Hi there. I want to start my own website as a hobby. I'm batting around a virtual pet site idea. Most of the virtual pet sites out there use PHP, but I've just heard about this Asp.net and wondered if it was a viable option. It seems everywhere I look people are comparing it with a serious programmer in mind. I only want to get as serious about this as I need to. A significant difference in server cost is also important. Does anyone have any ideas?

Depends on a number of factors. If you're very much a programming newbie then PHP will be easier to get into. Having said that ASP.net does have the advantage of being a more marketable skill if you're thinking employment in the longer term, precisely because PHP is easier to get into. Hosting costs differ, but not by a hell of a lot, TBH.

However, given your lack of experience and the simplicity of the application you're looking to build I'd probably edge towards PHP, although you should be aware that as a language it's even more prone to allowing bad coding than VB ever was.

Boston wrote:

ASP.net = Microsoft proprietary ****e
PHP = open scource.

So what?

You rarely see ASP but you see PHP everywhere. Read into that what you want.

Depends upon the application. ASP.Net is more popular with enterprise solutions than with small sites, so you'll see it less often, but it will be used far more often in that sphere than PHP. Independent of the technical pro's and con's his is down to two factors, that large organisations mistrust most open source and that the majority of so-called PHP developers out there are crap.

So it's horses for courses really, as someone pointed out the choice may simply come down to a choice between Windows and Linux. More likely it comes down to the complexity of such a site and given it's unlikely to be too complex, then the OP is better off with PHP.

ron_darrell

dob99 wrote:

I use PHP myself. Have never used ASP, but it's based on Visual Basic .NET (I think), so if you've no real previous programming experience, ASP is probably easier to pick up.

The best thing to do would be to find a couple of beginner's tutorials in both and see which one you'd find easier to pick up. Try downloading VB Express (http://msdn.microsoft.com) - it's the free version of VB. It might have some samples and tutorials.

ASP can use any scripting language to generate it's code. ASP.Net does require that you use either c# (based on the C/C++ family of language) or VB.Net (based on Visual Basic). AS to seeing PHP everywhere that is perhaps a bit of a misdirection. ASP and ASP.Net are seen in most of the bigger site (with file extensions of .asp or .aspx, keep an eye out for them).

As you have never coded before the learning curve for either course is just as steep and job prospects will be just the same at the other side, though debatedly the pay for a .Net programmer is likely to be higher unless the PHP programmer has significant experience running UNIX servers. My own preference would be for ASP.Net if I was in your position.

Microsoft have, as dob99 mentionned, offered free versions of their various .Net packages that should be more than adaquete for a hobby site. If your experience grows an dyou wish to expand you can then upgrade to the Enterprise editions packs but sufficient experience can be gained from the hobby packs without needing to go down this road.

Best of luck to you and if you need any help feel free to PM.

-RD

spottedbluecat

Thank you everyone for your help. I've decided to go with php.

Boston

grahamor wrote:

What a stupid and false comment that you rarely see ASP.

Sorry, my comment should read, ASP doesn't exist, it fiction, a figment of your imagination. PHP is on every single website in the world. Even Aliens use PHP, it solves all problems. Get a grip. Of course its relative to who you are and what you do, however last figures I looked at (2006) PHP was the most commonly used sever side scripting language, it was used on more sites when all the alternatives combined. So yea, PHP is pretty much everywhere, ASP is pretty much rare.

Depends upon the application. ASP.Net is more popular with enterprise solutions than with small sites, so you'll see it less often, but it will be used far more often in that sphere than PHP. Independent of the technical pro's and con's his is down to two factors, that large organisations mistrust most open source and that the majority of so-called PHP developers out there are crap.

Agreed with all of the above, but I would point out that the vast majority of sites arn't built on enterprise solutions. So as a user its only the rare site you see using ASP. As for open source Vs proprietary I fundamentally believe that if you're a decent programmer you'll produce better code with an open source language. That has been my experience, you've clearly more experience and are welcome to disagree. I do however acknowledge that their are a lot of problems with open source and are side stepped in the proprietary world.

damnyanks

Boston wrote:

As for open source Vs proprietary I fundamentally believe that if you're a decent programmer you'll produce better code with an open source language. That has been my experience, you've clearly more experience and are welcome to disagree. I do however acknowledge that their are a lot of problems with open source and are side stepped in the proprietary world.

Nit picking of course but...

How in gods green earth have you made an assumption that a developer will produce a better final result with open source over propietary languages

fasty

I'm not a web designer but I have some experience with developing CMS systems for smaller websites in PHP. Recently I've done a lot of web front ends using ASP.net and C# and I find it much easier to deal with than PHP/MySQL.

The convenience of not having to change the bulk of my code has been invaluable when it comes to turning a desktop based application into something that works over the internet.

I guess that's one advantage using ASP.Net gives.

seamus

Boston wrote:

As for open source Vs proprietary I fundamentally believe that if you're a decent programmer you'll produce better code with an open source language.

A decent programmer will produce decent code, whatever the language. A golfer isn't a good golfer because of his clubs.

damnyanks

How about Ruby on rails. Been playing around with it recently, its very straight forward.

Eoin

Boston wrote:

Sorry, my comment should read, ASP doesn't exist, it fiction, a figment of your imagination. PHP is on every single website in the world. Even Aliens use PHP, it solves all problems. Get a grip. Of course its relative to who you are and what you do, however last figures I looked at (2006) PHP was the most commonly used sever side scripting language, it was used on more sites when all the alternatives combined. So yea, PHP is pretty much everywhere, ASP is pretty much rare.

Agreed with all of the above, but I would point out that the vast majority of sites arn't built on enterprise solutions. So as a user its only the rare site you see using ASP. As for open source Vs proprietary I fundamentally believe that if you're a decent programmer you'll produce better code with an open source language. That has been my experience, you've clearly more experience and are welcome to disagree. I do however acknowledge that their are a lot of problems with open source and are side stepped in the proprietary world.

You said ASP.NET is a load of shìte, and you're talking about ASP now. There's a big difference between the two of them.

While ASP.Net is used on a lot of enterprise solutions, I haven't found it particularly unwieldy for small applications at all.

damnyanks

If you have visual studio and just want to make a personal website you could get away without actually learning to program. It will generate connections to database's, create objects to access the database and display the info. Has membership API so you dont even need to worry so much about log on's and what not.

newestUser

Boston wrote:

I fundamentally believe that if you're a decent programmer you'll produce better code with an open source language.

Bloody fundamentalists. :rolleyes:

As for the OPs question, I've used a combination of PHP and MySQL to make my own website. Was easy enough to learn, apart from session variables which (briefly) cause me a few problems. Can't comment on ASP.net, but I found PHP easy to learn.

Boston

damnyanks wrote:

Nit picking of course but...

How in gods green earth have you made an assumption that a developer will produce a better final result with open source over propietary languages

Hmm, ok I'm not a PHP monkey, I'm an engineer from a C/C++/Erlang background, I like to know whats going on in the background, how things are actually implimented and have found that I produce better code (less bugs, faster, more effecient, less lines of code ect ect) when I have that knowledge.

Seamus, I disagree. The more you hide away from the programmer, the less control he has.

eoin_s: You seem to be disagreeing with me on a point I haven't made. ASP may be the easies t language in the world to pick up and run with, but I wouldn't know becuase I'd never use the mother****er.

newestUser: A jihad upon you.

Cake Fiend

Boston wrote:

ASP may be the easies t language in the world to pick up and run with, but I wouldn't know becuase I'd never use the mother****er.

Well, I'm convinced

:rolleyes:

Boston

It wasn't meant as an argument, but rather as a tongue in cheek reference to a classic movie.

damnyanks

Boston wrote:

Hmm, ok I'm not a PHP monkey, I'm an engineer from a C/C++/Erlang background, I like to know whats going on in the background, how things are actually implimented and have found that I produce better code (less bugs, faster, more effecient, less lines of code ect ect) when I have that knowledge.

Seamus, I disagree. The more you hide away from the programmer, the less control he has.

eoin_s: You seem to be disagreeing with me on a point I haven't made. ASP may be the easies t language in the world to pick up and run with, but I wouldn't know becuase I'd never use the mother****er.

newestUser: A jihad upon you.

Nothing is hidden from the programmer, its pre-built. They can view the implementation code of the common datastructures and extend them you wish to do so.

Sorry but it would appear you belief by creating common datastructures again that you'd be a better programmer. Now maybe you have put far more consideration into things like collision detection, scalability, speed and testing for something such as hashtable then teams of people at microsoft, sun and so on.

Knowing how something is implemented will not make you more efficient or write better code. You can only talk to frameworks / api's the same way as everyone else.

Boston

damnyanks wrote:

Nothing is hidden from the programmer, its pre-built. They can view the implementation code of the common datastructures and extend them you wish to do so.

Sorry but it would appear you belief by creating common datastructures again that you'd be a better programmer. Now maybe you have put far more consideration into things like collision detection, scalability, speed and testing for something such as hashtable then teams of people at microsoft, sun and so on.

Knowing how something is implemented will not make you more efficient or write better code. You can only talk to frameworks / api's the same way as everyone else.

Since you're reading so much into my post, are you saying that The likes of sun amd microsoft write perfect code,bug free, 100% scalable and 100% suitable to every possible situation? There are advantages to know how things work and not just blindly using a languages API. Understanding this is the difference between being an actual engineer and just anotehr code monkey, banging in fuction calls which do "something or other".

Mutant_Fruit

Boston wrote:

Since you're reading so much into my post, are you saying that The likes of sun amd microsoft write perfect code,bug free, 100% scalable and 100% suitable to every possible situation? There are advantages to know how things work and not just blindly using a languages API. Understanding this is the difference between being an actual engineer and just anotehr code monkey, banging in fuction calls which do "something or other".

Are you saying that you can write bug-free 100% scalable and 100% suitable to every possible situation replacements? I'd think it far more likely the Microsoft/Sun/whoever would be able to do so simply because they have bigger teams and more heads usually means better ideas.

A linked list is a linked list in any language. Whether the language is "open source" or not doesn't make one bit of difference to the programmer using said list. What is worth noting is that not all linked lists are equal, some have O(1) prepend and O(n) append, others don't. However whether the language is open or not doesn't affect my ability to read the documentation on that class to find out these things.

So basically, it does not make one bit of difference whether the language is open or not, all that matters is the code monkeys ability to program and ability to read documentation. Maybe in your particular case you read the sourcecode for every method you go to use to find out what's fast and whats not, fair enough. But the general architect is quite happy reading the man page.

egan007

IF you never want your applications to work properly in anything other than Internet explorer then use ASP
otherwise use PHP.

Ginger

egan007 wrote:

IF you never want your applications to work properly in anything other than Internet explorer then use ASP
otherwise use PHP.

Oh come on do you even understand what you just wrote... This is the worst argument yet...

Both languages are serverside not client-side languages. They are processed on the server and send the results to the browser. So depending on how the coder who wrote the script designed the resulting HTML that is out then that is how the browser will interpret it.

Mutant_Fruit

egan007 wrote:

IF you never want your applications to work properly in anything other than Internet explorer then use ASP
otherwise use PHP.

If you want to debate the pro's and con's of ASP, start a separate topic for it. As it is, this is about ASP.NET not ASP. It's a completely different beast.

The Corinthian

egan007 wrote:

IF you never want your applications to work properly in anything other than Internet explorer then use ASP
otherwise use PHP.

Hang your head in shame boy.