PHP vs. ASP.net Question

henbane

OP, you've unintentionally opened a can of worms. Use whichever tool fits your project.

Boston wrote:

It wasn't meant as an argument, but rather as a tongue in cheek reference to a classic movie.

Classic? You need your head checked

Boston

Mutant_Fruit wrote:

Are you saying that you can write bug-free 100% scalable and 100% suitable to every possible situation replacements? I'd think it far more likely the Microsoft/Sun/whoever would be able to do so simply because they have bigger teams and more heads usually means better ideas.

I don't have to thats the point. I can write better code then the general solutions provided by microsoft and Sun, in specific situations. You seem to be entirely missing the point, and one wonders if you have a programming background. I don't have to write better code then sun and microsoft 100% of the time, just once will do to prove the point.

The more detailed and complex a solutions you require, the more original code you'll have to write. Know exactly how some function does memory management could be the difference between writing your own and using something provided.

henbane: Quentin Tarrantino is a legend.

Ginger

Boston wrote:

One wonders if you have a programming background.

This is going to be funny...

Evil Phil

As heated as this discussion is going to get there is no need for getting personal.

In the meantime I'm getting some popcorn.

damnyanks

Boston wrote:

I don't have to thats the point. I can write better code then the general solutions provided by microsoft and Sun, in specific situations. You seem to be entirely missing the point, and one wonders if you have a programming background. I don't have to write better code then sun and microsoft 100% of the time, just once will do to prove the point.

The more detailed and complex a solutions you require, the more original code you'll have to write. Know exactly how some function does memory management could be the difference between writing your own and using something provided.

henbane: Quentin Tarrantino is a legend.

And why can't you do that with a microsoft or sun stuff? You do know you can create your own classes , right ? You can also call the GC when you want to.

Place I worked remade the GC for java so that it was more efficient for real time processing making it faster then something like c++ (which they used to use for these systems)

Lemming

Boston wrote:

henbane: Quentin Tarrantino is a legend.

I find it supremely ironic that Boston has chosen to quote a mediocre director who rarely comes up with original work and simply plagarises a pile of other films and mix and matches them. "Original work" is the key phrase in there.

But I digress ...

OP, try both technologies. Use whatever you feel most comfortable with. I'm a .NET programmer by trade, even did a spell inside Microsoft, although PHP was my first foray into web programming many moons ago - including server maintenance.

Without using a large brush to tar entire communities, the .Net framework is very well documented, PHP not so much so. Which tends to shoot the Closed vs. Open-source debate in the foot. This isn't a black or white argument, and to portray it as such is incredibly dishonest (like certain posters are doing).

To Boston, if the OP is not terribly au fait with programming, would you *honestly* suggest that they go trawling through code (if documentation is crap) to figure how a particular function works? For every one person who might be able to handle it, how many wouldn't and would just abandon programming as being "too hard and confusing"?

markf909

Place I worked remade the GC for java so that it was more efficient for real time processing making it faster then something like c++ (which they used to use for these systems)

Totally OT, but that sounds very interesting. There is a lack of published material vis-a-vis Java versus C++ performance.
Intuitively, one assumes that C++ has to be faster but i'd love to see a definitive study conducted.

Mutant_Fruit

Boston wrote:

I can write better code then the general solutions provided by microsoft and Sun, in specific situations. You seem to be entirely missing the point, and one wonders if you have a programming background. I don't have to write better code then sun and microsoft 100% of the time, just once will do to prove the point.

Ah, ya got me there. I'm just a poor electronic engineer who's just finished his third year of college. So obviously i haven't a clue what i'm on about. I suppose my only meager claim to fame is that I've written arguably the most efficient (memory and cpu) bittorrent client in a managed language.

Funnily enough, it was in an open source language, C#. Do i think that by writing it in an "open" language i wrote better code than if i had coded in a "closed" language? God no! I would have written it all exactly the same no matter what language i choose.

I did find that the built-in bitarray class was far too slow for my needs. So i rewrote my own bitarray which gave me the flexibility i needed. I'd have rewritten it no matter what language it was coded in, open or otherwise. It was slow, it didn't give me access to things i needed access to, so i wrote my own.

[code]The more detailed and complex a solutions you require, the more original code you'll have to write. Know exactly how some function does memory management could be the difference between writing your own and using something provided.[/QUOTE]
To be honest, i strive to make things less complex. Works out easier that way. I try to not reinvent the wheel unless i absolutely have to. Rewriting a List class just to gain 5% extra performance in appending doesn't appeal to me.

Basically, trying to claim that people using "open" languages write better code than people using "closed" languages is pure rubbish. That's no reason to recommend a language. Trying to say ASP (or ASP.NET) is crap because it's closed and PHP is good because it's open is idiotic.

EDIT: IF you want a fairly unreliable benchmarking source between languages, check this out: http://shootout.alioth.debian.org/ . I say unreliable as some of the benchmarks are unfair to certain languages in how the benchmark is implemented. So it's a rough guide to performance, but can be fairly inaccurate at times.

Boston

damnyanks wrote:

And why can't you do that with a microsoft or sun stuff? You do know you can create your own classes , right ? You can also call the GC when you want to.

Ok, Open source Library of code is good Mkay. If you can see why, I can't convince you. Maybe you've never found benifit in that, I have.

Lemming: LoL too true. I knew someone would byte. You've a fair point, and I'll it's basically why I know the likes of java and some exclusive windows scripting languages. Sometimes you don't need to know, but thats very different from saying you never need to know.

Ah, ya got me there. I'm just a poor electronic engineer who's just finished his third year of college. So obviously i haven't a clue what i'm on about. I suppose my only meager claim to fame is that I've written arguably the most efficient (memory and cpu) bittorrent client in a managed language.

Funnily enough, it was in an open source language, C#. Do i think that by writing it in an "open" language i wrote better code than if i had coded in a "closed" language? God no! I would have written it all exactly the same no matter what language i choose.

So things would have been exactly the same if you had written it in hideously bloated and efficient Java, where you have no control over memory management? "Me fail programming, that's impossible".

It was slow, it didn't give me access to things i needed access to, so i wrote my own.

Ok, yes, but because it was open source you could see where it was slow and what you had to chance to make it better in your specific case. Thats the smart thing to do. To do other wise is just pure stupidity on your part, no wonder you failed to see benefits.

I've implemented the same projects in both Java and Erlang, My experience has been that I produce far better code with Open source Libraries then the closed Source APIs of Sun and Microsoft. However I produce code far faster with APIs. Thats the entire point, that's where the likes of Java fit into the programming world, it's quick, easy, and largely "good enough", but never claim its better, unless you want all the other engineers laughing at you.

And finally, Electronic engineer, I laugh at you. I'm a Computer and Electronic engineer, I know the general level of understanding pure Elec engineers students have of programming, it isn't much. I've never met one that could write a multi read single write driver any way, or a MESI cache manager

Mutant_Fruit

Boston wrote:

So things would have been exactly the same if you had written it in hideously bloated and efficient Java, where you have no control over memory management?

Erm, i did mention that i coded in a managed language, didn't i? A managed language by definition is one where all memory is managed for me. So yes, it would've been the same if i wrote it in horrible bloaty java. I wouldn't have changed my coding style or use of objects one bit. It just so happened that i chose to code in horrible bloaty C# with it's horrible bloaty garbage collection to implement my horrible bloaty code.

Ok, yes, but because it was open source you could see where it was slow and what you had to chance to make it better in your specific case. Thats the smart thing to do. To do other wise is just pure stupidity on your part, no wonder you failed to see benefits.

No, see the thing is i knew it was slow from *profiling* the code. Not by looking at a bunch of letters in a text file. When 20-30% of my time is spent iterating through a 6000 item bit-array you know it's time to optimise. Unfortunately to optimise i needed direct access to the internal int[]. As access to the array is not given to me through the built-in class, i rolled my own. I could do all this without seeing one bit of source code for the built-in bit array class. With direct access to that array i could increase performance by up to 30x for my particular corner case.

In another application which didn't make such heavy use of the BitArray class, would i bother rolling my own? No! Why? Because it'd be a complete waste of time. Would i reuse my new faster implementation in another application? No. Why? Because the changes i've made complicate the use of the BitArray class and the benefits for other applications wouldn't justify the extra complication.

Electronic engineer, I laugh at you. I'm a Computer and Electronic engineer, I know the general level of understanding pure Elec engineers students have of programming, it isn't much. I've never met one that could write a multi read single write driver any way, or a MESI cache manager

Hi, I'm Alan. I'm an electronic engineer. It's nice to meet you.

If you want to compare e-penises (e-penii?), we'll take that off-thread.

EDIT: Actually, might as well say it... I was offered an internship at Novell to work on Mono for the summer. It's a pure coding job. I wonder what might have made them offer that to me, obviously it must have been my stunning ineptitude at coding.

EPENIS++;

Boston

Mutant_Fruit wrote:

Erm, i did mention that i coded in a managed language, didn't i? A managed language by definition is one where all memory is managed for me. So yes, it would've been the same if i wrote it in horrible bloaty java. I wouldn't have changed my coding style or use of objects one bit. It just so happened that i chose to code in horrible bloaty C# with it's horrible bloaty garbage collection to implement my horrible bloaty code.


No, see the thing is i knew it was slow from *profiling* the code. Not by looking at a bunch of letters in a text file. When 20-30% of my time is spent iterating through a 6000 item bit-array you know it's time to optimise. Unfortunately to optimise i needed direct access to the internal int[]. As access to the array is not given to me through the built-in class, i rolled my own. I could do all this without seeing one bit of source code for the built-in bit array class. With direct access to that array i could increase performance by up to 30x for my particular corner case.

In another application which didn't make such heavy use of the BitArray class, would i bother rolling my own? No! Why? Because it'd be a complete waste of time. Would i reuse my new faster implementation in another application? No. Why? Because the changes i've made complicate the use of the BitArray class and the benefits for other applications wouldn't justify the extra complication.


Hi, I'm Alan. I'm an electronic engineer. It's nice to meet you.

If you want to compare e-penises (e-penii?), we'll take that off-thread.

EDIT: Actually, might as well say it... I was offered an internship at Novell to work on Mono for the summer. It's a pure coding job. I wonder what might have made them offer that to me, obviously it must have been my stunning ineptitude at coding.

EPENIS++;

I have a Degree and I know how to do direct memory management.
EPENIS*(1/0)

You realise I'm trolling at this stage. I can list five people who have posted on this thread and have far more experience then me.

Winters

I did a bit of ASP a good few years back, and although it did the job I much prefer PHP. I think one of the fantastic things that makes PHP an easy language to learn is php.net, it really is a bible for coding and has examples and helpful user tips for every possibly function there is.

When I was doing ASP there was not the same community support that you see with PHP/Open Source App's.

I have yet to look into ASP.net as it is suppose to be a large improvement over ASP.

Ginger

ASP.NET shares really only the name with ASP .. its a completely different animal.. Whereas ASP was inline .NET moves it into codebehind files and a lot of the stuff that was problematic in ASP is a piece of cake in .NET and you can do it in a couple of languages..

The ASPFreeForAll lists were great, I found a huge community around ASP (back in 97) and that helped me loads.. Still plenty of resources out there as well.

Horses for courses at the end of the day .. (catchphrase city today!)