RTE: Waterford shopping centre given go ahead

fricatus

http://www.rte.ie/news/2007/0702/waterford.html


Monday, 2 July 2007 20:07

A proposed €280m development for Waterford city centre, which includes a big shopping centre, has been granted planning permission by Waterford City Council.

Developers say more than 600 new jobs will be generated in construction alone.

The development is earmarked for completion by the end of 2009 and will feature 60 shops.

The location of the development in the Michael Street/New Street area has attracted controversy and objectors say they will be appealing the decision.

Sully

Jaysus, another delay. Let me know when it IS given the go ahead.

fricatus

Sully wrote:

Jaysus, another delay. Let me know when it IS given the go ahead.

fricatus wrote:

...and objectors say they will be appealing the decision.

Yeah... this I don't get... I thought the decision had been appealed. How many times can they appeal?

Maharet

fricatus wrote:

Yeah... this I don't get... I thought the decision had been appealed. How many times can they appeal?

After the city council it goes to An Bord Pleanala that's where they can appeal the decision and then Bord Pleanala give a decision based on everything, including any appeals that have been lodged. Hopefully they will let it through!

shapez

Why stick it in the city centre. It's clustered enough in there as it is. Move it out to the outskirts where every other big industry is going, have tons of parking and all prayers are answered.

Fajitas!

Because if everything is moved outside the city centre, then what happens to the city centre? It might be clustered, but there's still only the city square as our proper retail unit.

merlante

shapez wrote:

Why stick it in the city centre. It's clustered enough in there as it is. Move it out to the outskirts where every other big industry is going, have tons of parking and all prayers are answered.

It is the accepted expert opinion in city planning that large developments (bigger than is warranted by your neighbourhood) should happen in the city centre only. This not just to protect city centres for aesthetic/historical reasons, it is because city centres can handle traffic better, and car users are projected to have fewer car journeys of shorter duration when large developments are centralised. It is also far better for public transport if large developments are centralised. (You can't run a bus to every single out of town location, but you can run buses from everywhere into the city centre.)

This does not mean that Ardkeen village or Lisduggan is a bad idea: these developments cater directly for the surrounding neighbourhood, and do not draw traffic from outside. But the proposed and rejected First City Quarter, for example, which promised a huge M&S, amongst other things, would have been out of scale and would have attracted shoppers from the entire city, and much further afield. This would have placed a lot of pressure on the Airport and Outer Ring Roads.

Essentially, if the development is really big and will be really popular and will attract people from a 30 mile radius then it should be in the city centre, because the city centre, with its many roads leading into it from all directions, and its centralised parking locations, etc., can handle the 'load' the best. (The Outer Ring Road is only a single road, and if developments attracting high volumes of people were built along it, it would fill up in no time at all -- despite it being 2 lanes each way and currently free flowing.)

Aside from all that, the city centre needs a large development to revitalise it. It is still the location that is handiest for the most amount of people, and it's where people go to do their comparison shopping anyway.

Jor

I saw the front of to-days News & Star. The owner of the Outdoor Shop has said that he will continue to object to the development.
2009 could be very optimistic.

AdMMM

Well he (and all those who objected to the development) can only object once more before An Bord Planallas decision is final.

JMcL

merlante wrote:

It is the accepted expert opinion in city planning that large developments (bigger than is warranted by your neighbourhood) should happen in the city centre only. This not just to protect city centres for aesthetic/historical reasons, it is because city centres can handle traffic better, and car users are projected to have fewer car journeys of shorter duration when large developments are centralised. It is also far better for public transport if large developments are centralised. (You can't run a bus to every single out of town location, but you can run buses from everywhere into the city centre.)

Hear, hear. And to anybody that might think otherwise, see the M50 for a great example of why doughnut development is a REALLY bad idea

Sully

How long dooes it take An Bord Plana to review a case? Also, cant Mr McCann and co take the matter to the courts?

I thought I read that the enviroment minister recommended to Waterford CC not to accept the proposal?

Bards

Sully wrote:

How long dooes it take An Bord Plana to review a case? Also, cant Mr McCann and co take the matter to the courts?

I thought I read that the enviroment minister recommended to Waterford CC not to accept the proposal?

at the end of the day a democratically elected council at the overwhelming wishes of the population of the City want this to go ahead.

It is in the Waterford City Development plan 2007-2013.

It is part of the PLUTS (Planning, Land-Use,Transport,Social) and it is part of Waterford Project 2014

I will be amazed if ABP stop this in it's tracks.. more than likely it will proceed with a few amendments like traffic arrangements, dust monitoring, noise monitoring etc.

merlante

Bards wrote:

at the end of the day a democratically elected council at the overwhelming wishes of the population of the City want this to go ahead.

It is in the Waterford City Development plan 2007-2013.

It is part of the PLUTS (Planning, Land-Use,Transport,Social) and it is part of Waterford Project 2014

I will be amazed if ABP stop this in it's tracks.. more than likely it will proceed with a few amendments like traffic arrangements, dust monitoring, noise monitoring etc.

It might just go ahead unamended. I mean, the city council have been demanding of the plan, and traffic/environment have been central to the criticism they've had. In fact a certain proportion of the cost of the entire development has to paid out on a signature piece of art to be displayed in the centre! (Something in crystal could be really cool, and easily arranged. )

Fingers crossed!

Roen

Where are we when we need you



Bonus points for anyone who remembers the sitcom.

decies

Citizen smith i do believe......

Roen

Fair play Decies.
I can't help be reminded of him every time a certain few of beauties object to the town dragging itself up a little.

JMcL

Roen wrote:

Where are we when we need you



Bonus points for anyone who remembers the sitcom.

Ahh.. They repeated it a few years back, and it was still funny, or maybe I'm just getting old

fricatus

There's a competition in Waterford Today to name the new shopping centre. Hopefully a classy, distinctive name with local resonances will be chosen.

I hate to raise a negative though, but when City Square was being built, there was a competition to name it, and as we all know, they came up with the blandest, most generic name ever.

Still, let's wait and see...

Bards

fricatus wrote:

There's a competition in Waterford Today to name the new shopping centre. Hopefully a classy, distinctive name with local resonances will be chosen.

I hate to raise a negative though, but when City Square was being built, there was a competition to name it, and as we all know, they came up with the blandest, most generic name ever.

Still, let's wait and see...

I've sent in my entry this morning.. here's hoping I win that trip to the Big Apple:D

how about we run a poll from August with everone's entry (After the competition closes of cours) to gauge how everyone voted

Roen

fricatus wrote:

There's a competition in Waterford Today to name the new shopping centre. Hopefully a classy, distinctive name with local resonances will be chosen.
Still, let's wait and see...

We already had that competition. I won.

fricatus

Roen wrote:

We already had that competition. I won.

Well it's distinctive...