How did you loose your faith?

_Kaiser_

I voted "never had one" as when we were growing up, my mother believed that we should be free to choose our own religion (if any) when we were old enough to do so, rather than be "force fed" the Catholic Church's view on things in school.

Ultimately however, religion hasn't played any part in my (or my immediate family's) life. I'm quite happy as I am and don't feel that I'm missing anything from a moral or spiritual standpoint, but all that said I respect anyone else's right to believe if they get something out of it.

Sangre

Tim Robbins wrote:

What about those 1 Millions protestants some of whom have represented Ireland well in the Irish Rugby team?

Seriously, I know that there is a major bias in boards.ie to
1. Blokes
2. People who work in IT
3. People in Dublin

My point was that it would be interesting to hear opinions of x - C.O.I., Presbyterian etc.
RC seem to have a strict authoritarian flavour to it which puts a lot of people off irrespect of the theism / atheism arguments.

His stats refer to the Republic and not Ireland as a whole. Your reference to the Irish rugby team is a bit silly considering it is a whole island sport.

5uspect

The Atheist wrote:

I thought it was more people were non-believers despite their parents being Christian.
Meh - same thing I think!

yeah pretty much. I'm wondering is there a religion that is effectively immune to apostasy and is Christianity particularly prone to it.

For example it seems that if you're born into a Muslim family in certain countries you're not likely give up your religion (probably because of the shame or fear of death) but if you're born into a Christian family in liberal Europe then its likely that you will probably not be bothered by religion. Tho being a Christian in America is almost akin to being patriotic.

Cake Fiend

Never had it to lose.

Hagar

I was praying when I realised you can get put away for talking to yourself.

Tim Robbins

Sangre wrote:

His stats refer to the Republic and not Ireland as a whole. Your reference to the Irish rugby team is a bit silly considering it is a whole island sport.

It was said in jest. Why should his stats refer only to the Republic?
If we can do whole island for Rugby let's to the same for boards.ie

Catsmokinpot

i was about 8 at the time, i remember seeing my mother putting all the "presents from santa" under the tree so and realised that it was a load of bullsh1t so then i thought to myself if thats not real then what else is not real?

robindch

Tim Robbins wrote:

Have you read 'Breaking the Spell' by Dennet? In that book he is very much trying to track how religion is developed, propagated etc in society? It's not bad, I think it tries to argue in abstract terms and is too politically correct in some of his points.

Yes, I agree. He also waffles too much, and drifts from topic to topic with little obvious order. Hitchens has direction but little interest in understanding *why* what's arisen has arisen.

Tim Robbins

robindch wrote:

Yes, I agree. He also waffles too much, and drifts from topic to topic with little obvious order. Hitchens has direction but little interest in understanding *why* what's arisen has arisen.

I thought Hitchens only wanted to fire insults and use his rhetorical skills and his turn of phrase ability. He didn't really have any good well developed arguments.

I think Dawkins' 'God Delusion' has the edge on all of them. Even though I didn't agree with all of it, the points are well made and force you to either agree or disagree. It slighly edges Harris' 'End of Faith'.
Although "Why I am not Christian" was probably the most ground breaking and innovative.

theprop

Up until the age of ten or eleven, we had a real blood and guts priest in my local church. He'd give sermons that would make you want to go out and stone the heathens. The man had a fantastic way with words and a brilliant delivery. So he really got me hooked.

Then we had a more modern priest, and I started to think for myself about the whole thing. Eventually, coming into fifth or sixth year, I realised that organised religion's purpose is to prevent freedom of thought. When so many answers are given along the lines of 'it's one of God's mysteries' or 'you must have faith, things will be better when you're dead' (one of my all time favourites), I started to realise that the only thing blind faith brings is blissful ignorance.Eventually my faith in any organised religion went to an apparently better place.

Splendour

Sorry to intrude, but it seems to me this thread should be re-named; 'When did you lose your religion' rather than faith.

I haven't seen one poster here yet who professes ever having any kind of faith.

Asiaprod

Splendour wrote:

Sorry to intrude, but it seems to me this thread should be re-named; 'When did you lose your religion' rather than faith.

I haven't seen one poster here yet who professes ever having any kind of faith.

I think you need to re-read some posts:) . I said I was an RC for 30 years. I had faith, I believed. Then I stopped.

Red Hand

Splendour wrote:

Sorry to intrude, but it seems to me this thread should be re-named; 'When did you lose your religion' rather than faith.

I haven't seen one poster here yet who professes ever having any kind of faith.

TBH I think that many people who follow a religion are doing so out of tradition and routine rather than any real sense of faith, or belief.

Tar.Aldarion

I think the title should be changed to 'When did you lose your faith?'.

Zombrex

i think the how is more interesting than the when. If I said 1996 to people would that mean anything?

Tim Robbins

Splendour wrote:

Sorry to intrude, but it seems to me this thread should be re-named; 'When did you lose your religion' rather than faith.

I haven't seen one poster here yet who professes ever having any kind of faith.

why not start a thread in the Christianity forum when do you loose your atheism? We are born atheist.
I think you find most people would answer between the ages 0-10, which would be really interesting since most people here didn't loose their faith until after 10.
This would support my hypotheisis that you make a child up to the age of 10 believe anything.
My overall hypotheisis is that faith is hammered into your unconcious mind, via your concious mind and once it is lodged there it can't be removed for some people.

PDN

Tim Robbins wrote:

why not start a thread in the Christianity forum when do you loose your atheism? We are born atheist.
I think you find most people would answer between the ages 0-10, which would be really interesting since most people here didn't loose their faith until after 10.
This would support my hypotheisis that you make a child up to the age of 10 believe anything.
My overall hypotheisis is that faith is hammered into your unconcious mind, via your concious mind and once it is lodged there it can't be removed for some people.

I lost my atheism when I was 18 and really began to think seriously about life for myself instead of just swallowing what others had taught me.

Red Hand

Tim Robbins wrote:

why not start a thread in the Christianity forum when do you loose your atheism? We are born atheist.
I think you find most people would answer between the ages 0-10, which would be really interesting since most people here didn't loose their faith until after 10.
This would support my hypotheisis that you make a child up to the age of 10 believe anything.
My overall hypotheisis is that faith is hammered into your unconcious mind, via your concious mind and once it is lodged there it can't be removed for some people.

I don't know about being born atheist. I think humans are born with a curiosity to explain things and find solutions. Unfortunately, when trying to explain the world, humans have one hell of a brain and imagination, and ignorant of electricity, will explain lightening happening as a big bearded man in the sky throwing a hammer. Mix that in with delusions brought about by mental illness, and hallucinogens, and suddenly, you got people thinking all sorts of things about prophets and stuff.

Tar.Aldarion

You can be taught atheism? :P
Yeah Jeremiah, we are all born atheist, you can't be a christian etc at birth, you have no knowledge like that.

Red Hand

Tar.Aldarion wrote:

You can be taught atheism? :P
Yeah Jeremiah, we are all born atheist, you can't be a christian etc at birth, you have no knowledge like that.

Ha, I don't know. How do know what a baby thinks, Tar? Heaven for him or her could be swimming in a warm wonderful hazy land, where you didn't have to be uncomfortable breathing, coughing, sniffling, with a belly that either gets too full or too empty or too gassy; and life is especially hard with that rash on your bottom that just won't stop itching-bloody soggy diaper...:p

The face that looks down on you in your crib? Who the hell is that?

OK, I probably agree with not being born with a particular religion, but maybe there is a switch which is all too easily flicked to allow us to believe in something.

5uspect

Well we're not born skeptical, just without knowledge of theism.
The blank slate.

Red Hand

5uspect wrote:

Well we're not born skeptical, just without knowledge of theism.
The blank slate.

Blank slate-few modern behaviourists stick to the old tabula rasa argument.

Tim Robbins

5uspect wrote:

Well we're not born skeptical, just without knowledge of theism.
The blank slate.

Is that book any good? Pinker's: 'Blank Slate'.

robindch

Jeremiah 16:1 wrote:

Blank slate-few modern behaviourists stick to the old tabula rasa argument.

With respect to religion, the blank slate metaphor is both accurate and accepted.

Winters

I was brought up a catholic, but from a quite young age, as young as I remember, I was questioning it;

The story of Jesus really just did not sink with me. They seem to skip about 20 years of this dudes life. You have him born, and then you have him at like age 30 or something performing miracles. I really would love to know what went on inbetween. I really just don't get how something with so many holes and inconsistency's can be praised and used as something to live one's life by.

The old testamentwith its "thou shalt not kill" in one place and then it condemning those to death who did not believe in a certain faith just didn't make much sense. I beleive if he was so great and wonderful he wouldn't need droves of people worshiping and praising his name day in and day out. If he existed and was as great as he is suppose to be, I'm sure he would want people to get on and live the life he has given them to its fullest and not spend it day in and day out chanting his name like a bunch of zombies seeking and killing those that did not follow a particular belief.

That was just my thoughts when I was very young, maybe 12 or so.

Zombrex

PDN wrote:

I lost my atheism when I was 18 and really began to think seriously about life for myself instead of just swallowing what others had taught me.

There's a contradiction if ever there was one

Tomk1

I suppose around 11 started to see holes in religion and saw the church for what it is, but from my early 20's began from 60% belief in a god to now 0% belief. I would now find it hard to call myself atheist (unbeliever in God or deities; somebody who does not believe in God or deities), as I have passed that point to now “There is no god to disbelieve in”. I know it sounds like a play with words but the definition of atheist states a god with a capital G exists and then we do not believe in it. My point is now as (born again Zerogodist) I do not believe in the very idea of the existence of a god (the supreme ruler of the planet).

“Religion is an insult on intelligence” and that is why it is driven into us at such a young age before intelligence and common sense develops.

In public media and life godisim is promoted and this infuriates me due to discrimination against my “disbelief system”. One of the first things the state did was to separate religion from government but why is the church part of the public education system. The public schools should be secular and to finish off I will give an example of what my niece’s five year old said to his father,
“Who do you think puts the clothes on your back and roof over your head?”
“God does”

Note he also believes in Santa.

5uspect

Jeremiah 16:1 wrote:

Blank slate-few modern behaviourists stick to the old tabula rasa argument.

Well behavouruism has been shown to be wrong AFAIK. Its all about evolutionary psychology now. I used the term loosely regarding specific beliefs. There is evidence to show that the ability to belive is hardwired into us alright but the belief itself is of course blank.

Tim Robbins wrote:

Is that book any good? Pinker's: 'Blank Slate'.

I was reading one of his other books "How the Mind Works" but I put it down ages ago about halfway thru as it does drag on a bit. I brought it on a conference recently (ahem, free holiday) and got back into it. While he does drag on sometimes its really interesting and I would recommend him an an author.

Tim Robbins

5uspect wrote:

I was reading one of his other books "How the Mind Works" but I put it down ages ago about halfway thru as it does drag on a bit. I brought it on a conference recently (ahem, free holiday) and got back into it. While he does drag on sometimes its really interesting and I would recommend him an an author.

Interesting. I am reading Dennet at the moment, while very good, I am getting a bit bored by the way he takes four pages to make an argument that could be made in one.
I think I might go to tabloid newspapers for a while and Hello Magazine. I like the way they get to the point.

Esmereldina

theprop wrote:

' things will be better when you're dead' (one of my all time favourites)

Some priest actually said that to you? Lol...:rolleyes:

Regarding the idea that 'we are all born atheist', I think the fact that almost every society, community, tribe or whatever (and I'm not an anthropologist, so I'm sure there might be some exceptions so the point still stands) has developed some kind of belief system in a God or Gods in order to explain the world around them and the purposes of their own lives shows that we are born with a predisposition towards belief rather than atheism. As far as explaining why so many people have religious faith, it's not just about how the different religions manipulate people and 'indoctrinate' them as children, but about our own collective predisposition to believe desparately in something that appears to give out lives some kind of meaning. Perhaps it functions in a similar way to the invention of ways of measuring time with calendars and clocks; it imposes some kind of order on an undifferentiated chaos. The fact that all the belief systems in the world today have been invented by humans (though obviously you have to be an atheist to believe this ) rather than imposed on us by actual skygods/alien races/flying spaghetti monsters shows that we have this predisposition. So I'd say that for a lot of people it's a kind of willing collaboration rather than an indoctrination.
Anway I've waffled on enough here... and still haven't answered the original question. I suppose I became an atheist gradually. I was quite religious as a child and then gradually started to question more and more of the Catholic teachings, so by the time I was mid way through secondary school I suppose I was an atheist.