How did you loose your faith?

Galvasean

DerKaiser wrote:

Why does it feel like the christians on boards are entitled to sneer at the athiests, but the other way 'round wouldn't be tolerated? Is it just me, do Athiests not have rights too?

Because its hard to take them seriously when they waffle about magic men creating the universe, rhinos being dinosaurs and plankton eating lions etc.

Dades

DerKaiser wrote:

Why does it feel like the christians on boards are entitled to sneer at the athiests, but the other way 'round wouldn't be tolerated? Is it just me, do Athiests not have rights too?

I don't recall a Christian ever been chastised for comments about atheists. Rebuked, perhaps but not chastised.

Zombrex

DerKaiser wrote:

Why does it feel like the christians on boards are entitled to sneer at the athiests, but the other way 'round wouldn't be tolerated? Is it just me, do Athiests not have rights too?

Because its part of their "religious beliefs" when they explain, politely, that we are wicked immoral sinners ruled by out base instincts, who are only selfish atheists because we don't want to follow any moral code that would require us to think of anyone other than ourselves, and that we are destined to spend eternity rotting in hell.

And we are supposed to respect other's beliefs after all

PDN

DerKaiser wrote:

Why does it feel like the christians on boards are entitled to sneer at the athiests, but the other way 'round wouldn't be tolerated?

Probably because your feelings are mistaken.

Zombrex

PDN wrote:

Probably because your feelings are mistaken.

Groan .. we aren't going to have another "true Christians don't do that" discussion again are we :rolleyes:

PDN

Wicknight wrote:

Groan .. we aren't going to have another "true Christians don't do that" discussion again are we :rolleyes:

I'm sorry, but I can't see the slightest connection between DerKaiser's mixed up feelings and your comment.

My point, for once agreeing with Tim Robbins, was that sneering and jibes occur on both sides of the fence. I think it would need a serious persecution complex for someone to portray these boards as being full of sneering Christians while atheists meekly turn the other cheek.

Dave!

I never really had any faith to begin with... I was of course baptised, took communion, and was confirmed, and attended mass most Sundays with my parents. Nothing ever struck a cord with me when I was in church, and I demanded that when I turn 16 I wouldnt go anymore. I think I was actually 15 when I stopped going though... It wasnt a big deal anyway.

It was around when I was 15 or 16 that I started asking questions (internally) about religion, the universe, existance, all that sorta sh*te... I think what made me start to explore the arguments for atheism was the way that the idea of religion fits so neatly in with human psychology.

We don´t know where the universe etc. came from, so god must have done it. I also started thinking about all the different religions, and how they cant all be right. And then I started thinking about ancient civilisations like the Greeks, and how they had a god of the sun, moon and stars, and that these kind of gods arent even considered nowadays by most of us, because we understand these things. Put 2 and 2 together and it becomes apparant that humans feel the need to project divine characteristics onto things which they dont understand.

The other thing that got me thinking was the notion of an afterlife. Death is the ultimate human fear, because of the idea that we just cease to exist. We lose our consciousness and then just like that, we´re gone. Makes you feel a bit uneasy about getting old, doesn´t it? BAM! Let´s throw an afterlife in there. Now when you die you continue to live, just not on earth. You go up to your deceased relatives and pets, and everyone else will meet you up in heaven in due course. Sounds great.

Those were the main things that got me thinking about religion, and made me start to explore the options.

Also, Just to clarify because I know some people like to simplify things by saying that most atheists are just that way because of a bad experience with a church, the priest touched them once too often, etc.
I have had no strong contact with any church. I was baptised and confirmed like most people, and I went to a catholic primary and secondary school, and thats about where my religious contact ends. I went to mass on Sundays and didnt like it, also like most children. Religion had a rather benign influence on my life.

I simply do not believe because I do not think it makes any sense. I talk about it and argue about it because I do not think it makes any sense, yet it continues to be believed by millions. If millions believed that the earth was flat, then I would argue about that.

Saruwatari

Even though I'm only fifteen, I strongly deny the existence of god and anything supernatural. For almost all his life, my father's been an atheist, and only within the last 2/3 years have I become more interested in his arguments and religious debates. My mother and the rest of the family are Christians, but don't really practise it that much (church only used to happen for us at least twice a year).
So eventually and gradually, I simply turned down all my previous beliefs, and here I am now (a self-proclaimed Secularist and Militant Atheist). Unfortunately, I only have one friend who isn't religious, and he's agnostic (which I still respect). I think the rest of my year are religious, too, to my frustration.

karen3212

I wasn't a very spiritual kid. I remember being really afraid of death and having nightmares about it after my gran died. I remember dreaming of being up in the skies looking down on a planet of graves. Anyway, my family pretty much only believed a little of anything they heard, no matter who said it. So kinda naturally a sceptical family, though my parents let us think for ourselves, and didn't push us to believe what they did. I thought going to church was like going to school, just something that had to be done. So, in general when I was young didn't really believe in anything like the bible god, nor did my family. Anyway, one of my teachers one day said "Does God even exist'' Those were the magic words, I started looking for evidence, reading the bible - assuming it was the obvious proof. I very quickly realised it was a load of ****e. I was about 14 then.

I didn't realise how bad an idea it is to have people believing without evidence until a few years ago. Until then I was pretty non caring about religion.

Also, I must admit I thought atheism was another church until I was sixteen, bad I know.

edit removing confusion

daveirl

This post has been deleted.

Dades

I agree with Daveirl.

If you get too zealous at your age it'll no doubt be mistaken for teen angst.
Hang on to your (dis)beliefs - there'll be plenty of time for marching and banner waving in college if you still want to!

5uspect

Thats true. I remember once in religion class years ago our teacher asked us who believed in god. I was one of the few who didn't. Looking at many of those who did believe I was somewhat shocked. These would be the kind of person PDN might refer to as a foul mouthed lout.

Teenagers go with the flow, its difficult to stand up and be different. I'd echo everyone else and stick to your convictions but don't go looking for conflict. Engage in debate calmly and rationally.

Saruwatari

Hey, I didn't say I was taking my anger out on the world. :P I'm not frustrated as in losing my head type, y'know. But thanks for the advice.
Also, I totally agree with 5uspect's second paragraph. People are afraid to be different and open-minded.

5uspect

Saruwatari wrote:

Hey, I didn't say I was taking my anger out on the world. :P I'm not frustrated as in losing my head type, y'know. But thanks for the advice.
Also, I totally agree with 5uspect's second paragraph. People are afraid to be different and open-minded.

Now now, settle down!

Zillah

DerKaiser wrote:

Why does it feel like the christians on boards are entitled to sneer at the athiests, but the other way 'round wouldn't be tolerated? Is it just me, do Athiests not have rights too?

What are you talking about? I say horrible things about most religions, including Christianity, all the time. They're ridiculous nonesense.

Although I suppose that only goes in the A&A forum where everyone can criticise everyone...back out in believer country things are a little more one sided...

CiDeRmAn

I got over the whole religion thing back when I was 19, I was living away from home, in nursing school of all things, and was reading voraciously, anything I could lay my hands on about science, physics, cosmology, astronomy, and it occurred to me that like a giant jigsaw reality seemed to conform rather well to the models built up by scientists. Unfortuantely god seemed like a piece from a different puzzle, god simply didn't fit anywhere at all. He became redundant, with no hope of a reprieve.

Life has had it's ups and downs since then, 16 years ago, plenty of great things have happened and several sad tragic events too, but I have never found my heart turned to the heavens in a moment of need or praise.

Now as a bit of an artist I can still appreciate the wonder and beauty of the world around me, I simply find that I also take a certain comfort from understanding it too.

i have found my tolerance of religious people has varied over the years, initially I would scoff at there foolish ways but as I grew older, especially as my wife, who has a strong catholic faith, lost a close family member, I grew to respect peoples religions and recogised that the social failings of religion, or those most frequently blamed on religion are human failings first and foremost, we are responsible for the evil deeds we have done, no faith in anything should take the rap for how brutal we can be.

That said I still have crystal rubbers and "alternative" medicine types to focus my derision on, nice to have so many self deluded fools within such easy reach, especially reiki healers, reflexologists and homeopathy practitioners, not to mention chiropractors, there's not a big enough wall or enough bullets to dispose of them all.

Scofflaw

Zillah wrote:

Also, in my personal experience, people who are born into non-religious families (the kind who just don't have a religion, rather than a family that has strong secular principles), they tend to have a fairly light hearted atheism. They lack the stronger more affirmed atheism that a lot of post-belief atheist have, but its clear to me that a person will be a light hearted atheist unless someone specifically convinces them otherwise.

Surely one could equally well argue that someone who never had a faith simply doesn't carry a lot of the negative baggage that a post-belief atheist (nice term) does?

After all, the tests of atheism, in the end, are exactly the same as the tests of faith - the ups and downs of life. Until someone has had their 'position' tested by something serious, it's not a serious position, whatever their background may be.

cordially,
Scofflaw

MooseJam

lost my faith when I was old enough to realise it was all a big bunch of damn lies , don't know how old I was exactly anywhere from 9 to 11

bringitdown

Doubts crept into my catholic mind when I was a teenager.

I had a full blown confrontation on the topic with my mom in my later teens and I stopped going to mass.

I professed an outrage at what many organised religions offered by way of moral guidance - particularly the catholic church in which I was brought up.

I became I suppose an agnostic theist for much of college life but I think that was to pay lip service to people who accused me of having no belief system - I was yet developing a defence to such an accusation.

Now as I grow older, wiser and bolder and as I am unafraid to be confronted or to confront about belief .... I am atheist ....

mickoneill30

I was at a funeral on Friday. The priest went on for five minutes talking about hell and saying that if you don't believe in hell you're going to go there. Obviously a funeral is going to get a fair amount of people that normally don't go to mass so it must have been some kind of drive to get more people to go. This had nothing to do with the lady being buried who was a pretty normal Catholic.

That's the kind of crap that was one extra straw to the many that made me stop going to the church.

Galvasean

mickoneill30 wrote:

I was at a funeral on Friday. The priest went on for five minutes talking about hell and saying that if you don't believe in hell you're going to go there. Obviously a funeral is going to get a fair amount of people that normally don't go to mass so it must have been some kind of drive to get more people to go. This had nothing to do with the lady being buried who was a pretty normal Catholic.

That's the kind of crap that was one extra straw to the many that made me stop going to the church.

I can only assume the priest in question was not doing his job correctly. I always thought a funeral was to celebrate the life of a lost loved one, not to preach/convert.

Pat the Baker

Wicknight wrote:

I rejected the Christian idea of God for as far back as I remember being aware of what the Christian idea of God was (ie as soon as I was introduced to the Bible).

Until my early teenage years I still led onto the vague notion of a "god" being out there, but that went pretty much as soon as I remember seriously thinking about it

exaclty the same for me

Goodshape

Don't remember ever having faith.

Was baptised, communed (or whatever you'd call that) and confirmed, because that's how the family - on my mothers side - were raised, but I think even for my parents it was more for the sake of the celebration, keeping the granny happy and a general "well, everyone else is doing it".

Was always encouraged to question and questioning, as far as I can see, isn't really compatible with 'faith'. None of the answers I got ever gave me reason to believe.

Ekancone

Similar story to someone on this thread, i was really into dinosaurs so i read up a lot about them and discovered they existed over 65m years ago. Then the bible said 6,000 years ago or something, so i put 2+2 together. To be honest even as a very young child i found it hard to buy.

PDN

daithifleming wrote:

Then the bible said 6,000 years ago or something

No it didn't.

Ekancone

PDN wrote:

No it didn't.

Ok whatever the **** it says, <65m years?

Goodshape

daithifleming wrote:

Ok whatever the **** it says, <65m years?

Careful now.

Zillah

PDN wrote:

No it didn't.

Not literally no, but Christians did at one time believe, and many still do, that the world is about 10k or less years old. This was done by counting back over the lifetimes of Kings and Biblical figures if I recal.

But no, the Bible does not specifically say the world is only thousands of years old. Of course, it does say we're all descended from a couple who were made from dust and a rib respectively, and then they inbred the rest of the way...and that the world was made in six days etc etc...

Excelsior

Zillah wrote:

Not literally no, but Christians did at one time believe...

That sentence might be improved to read, "humans" where you have "Christians" since it wasn't a religious-specific belief.

Zillah wrote:

Of course, it does say we're all descended from a couple who were made from dust and a rib respectively, and then they inbred the rest of the way...and that the world was made in six days etc etc...

But does it really say that or are you just missing the point?

Back to the topic:
I lost my faith at the age of 17. From as far back as I can remember I was doubtful about Christianity. There are many reasons for it but I guess anyone here who was born in the 80s into a normal Irish Catholic family can empathise with me on them. Like many, I also had a fascination in dinosaurs and that led me on into the other sciences. I adored the books of Stephen Jay Gould. I still count him as one of the best essayists I've ever read (after Lewis and Orwell). I used to get the bus into town on Saturday mornings to get into the civic library to get out more popular science books before my friends might join me to go see a movie. Ah the heady days of a nerdy early adolescence!


I don't know where I picked it up because it couldn't have been from him with his sensible moderate views on everything but I began to believe that rational people couldn't believe in God. Science explained everything. Matter was all there was and matter was all that mattered. I was a smart kid and a pretty effective debater so in the natural course of teenagers, I got unreasonably cocky and believed that I had everything sorted out. The key book that captured my mood I think was EO Wilson's Consilience. Man I loved that book! I was just reminiscing with some friends yesterday about how utterly different I am now a few years later.

But anyway, I met Christians. Real practicing Christians my age who were smart and engaged and very funny. And we started arguing. And four or five or six months later I looked up and realised I had believed and now I did not anymore. I had believed in science as a religion, atheism as a faith (I am not saying that all the atheists here are like me before I get attacked!) and I had lost it. Under the light of observation and thought and life experience and a bunch of other good things, it just didn't stand up.

7 or 8 years on I have found that intellectual journey I started there to be the one that has defined my life so far. I think for the next decade or so I can reasonably expect to either be at the task of studying theology or recovering from a bout of studying theology. I still keep my toe in with the pop science books but my heart has definitely been wooed by the humanities and my old faith in the Enlightenment is now long dead. Like PDN I had to declare something so I said, "Wake up sleeper!"

Sapien

Excelsior wrote:

But anyway, I met Christians. Real practicing Christians my age who were smart and engaged and very funny. And we started arguing. And four or five or six months later I looked up and realised I had believed and now I did not anymore. I had believed in science as a religion, atheism as a faith (I am not saying that all the atheists here are like me before I get attacked!) and I had lost it. Under the light of observation and thought and life experience and a bunch of other good things, it just didn't stand up.

Was there a point of reason that won you over to religion, or was it some personal, inarticulable change in the way you understood the world that did it?