Youth groups plea over exam reform

marco murphy

The country’s leading youth organisation has called on Minister for Education Mary Hanafin to take on board the views of teenagers before reforming the Leaving Certificate.

The minister will meet 100 pupils in Dublin today who sat this year’s tests to pick their brains over changes to the exam timetable.

But Youth Work Ireland claimed Ms Hanafin is refusing to discuss other aspects of the Leaving Cert with schoolchildren.

“One of the key things politicians must do is listen to young people and to their concerns,” spokesman Michael McLoughlin said.

“The minister has made a good start in that regard but by hugely limiting what’s on the table she is sending out all the wrong signals.

“This should be a much broader and more fundamental examination of the system involving a more widespread consultation of a whole number of young people not just a small amount who have just completed the exam.”

Ms Hanafin has argued against continuous assessment insisting it would remove from the rigours of the tests.

But Mr McLoughlin said: “This is far from the case and most business leaders want these kind of changes. They also lead to a more balanced and rounded citizen.

“At the end of the day if we want to listen to young people about these issues we should do so in an open an accepting way, this cannot be achieved by restricting what is and isn’t on the table.”

http://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/mhkfqlmhqlcw/rss2/

ethernet

It's like a wooden stake in the heart hearing about this just a few weeks after finishing. Curse those people who chose to do TY!

AdMMM

Exam reform isn't something that would come in overnight. In fact the changes would probably be phased in and most likely applied to the Junior Certificate first.

rjt

I was there today, and agree that it was somewhat annoying that they restricted the discussion to how the exams were timetabled. One girl managed to break away and get a few good words in about the current Irish curriculum, before the Minister again brought the discussion back to the timetable. Still, call me cynical, but the whole thing reeked of a completely PR event - especially by restricting the discussion to an area that they already have put a great deal of thought into how to change (and have plans to change). There were some SEC guys there, so at least they got to hear views of the students first hand, but the majority of the points raised they'd heard before - move English Paper 1 back, put minority subjects on the same day as majority subjects to cut down on days with two subjects, move the aurals etc.

The only area where the views of the students differed with those of present with an idea to put a break in the middle of the LC exams (a one day break for everyone somewhere in the second week). A few people then commented on how you can't really relax during such a break, so it only serves to make the whole thing longer.

Nonetheless, got lunch and a €50 book voucher out of it, and was on the radio and possibly TV, so I won't complain

Insect Overlord

I was there too! Wasn't what I expected, to be honest. Too much childish whinging, the use of the word "unfair" and repetition of the same ideas. That said, the book voucher will come in handy!

rjt

An Fhile wrote:

I was there too! Wasn't what I expected, to be honest. Too much childish whinging, the use of the word "unfair" and repetition of the same ideas. That said, the book voucher will come in handy!

Bingo. I'd say 90% of those that spoke were simply reiterating someone before them. That said, some spoke very well and brought up interesting points.

As for the 'childish whinging', I understand what you mean. Part of me felt like shouting out "that's life, and if this is the most difficult thing you'll ever have to do, then you're damned lucky!". But given that I went in only needing 400, I didn't experience the same pressure as those who went for medicine and such, so I can't fairly judge what they went through.

I also must admit that the voucher was spent within 30 minutes of leaving

ZorbaTehZ

rjt wrote:

Still, call me cynical, but the whole thing reeked of a completely PR event - especially by restricting the discussion to an area that they already have put a great deal of thought into how to change (and have plans to change).

I'm hoping you or another person there raised that point?

fionated7

why on earth did they put so much money into giving people book vouchers?? the idea is nice and all and i would have been grateful for it if id of been there but does anyone else think this money could be used else where in the education system??

marco murphy

Surely the LC is ok provided you put in a bit of effort.

cocoa

the LC is perfectly fine as it is. It never ceases to amuse me that the people who complain the most about how difficult and stressful the exam is, are people who aren't currently doing it...

Grudaire

Eh- even if they do reform it the exams will be easier for everyone- therefore you will still get the same result......

Why fix what ain't broke?

Rozabeez

IMO Mary Hanafin is a moron and just wanted to use it as publicity, being seen listening to teenagers' opinions. Then again, I've no proof of this.

rjt

fionated7 wrote:

why on earth did they put so much money into giving people book vouchers?? the idea is nice and all and i would have been grateful for it if id of been there but does anyone else think this money could be used else where in the education system??

Yeah, €5000 on book vouchers and God knows how much on catering. Some interesting figures were given on the Department's expenditure though - apparently the exams actually cost €550 per person, of which they only get €90 from students (the LC/JC combined costs €61.5 mil). But yeah, that €5000 could have went somewhere it was needed more badly.

ZorbaTehZ: I'd be lying if I said yes. Everyone else seemed to believe otherwise, so I put it down to cynical old rjt. But tbh, I don't really want to see much changed anyway. If the government wants to throw away €10000 on PR, they'll do it one way or another. But yes, a decent citizen who cared about the Government throwing away so much money and wasting so many people's time would have said something. I guess that person isn't me.

Corruptedmorals

What's the point in moving English and Irish Paper 1 to May? There's only so much preparation you can do for them, it's the Paper 2's of both that are far worse, and should be moved. If any exams were moved, they'd be on top of the orals, creating probably more stress than they get rid of..so yeah, leave it as it is, I think. Though I think the timetable should be changed slightly...it's not fair to have 2 awful subjects in the one day..

And a one-day break in the second week is ridiculous.

marco murphy

Cliste wrote:

Eh- even if they do reform it the exams will be easier for everyone- therefore you will still get the same result......

Why fix what ain't broke?

Good point (duh )

rjt

Corruptedmorals wrote:

What's the point in moving English and Irish Paper 1 to May? There's only so much preparation you can do for them, it's the Paper 2's of both that are far worse, and should be moved. If any exams were moved, they'd be on top of the orals, creating probably more stress than they get rid of..so yeah, leave it as it is, I think. Though I think the timetable should be changed slightly...it's not fair to have 2 awful subjects in the one day..

The point in moving the Paper 1s is exactly because you can't do much study for them. If they brought the Paper 2s back, the entire few weeks leading up to that would be spent studying solely English, and other subjects would suffer. I know that I did nothing except oral stuff for the whole second week of mid-term, and leading up to my history project deadline that got all of my time. English Paper 2 after that would take away more time from other subjects.

But yes, I also think that the timetable works as it is, and should be left alone (apart from perhaps moving the aurals to before the written papers).

Rozabeez

Rozabeez wrote:

IMO Mary Hanafin is a moron and just wanted to use it as publicity, being seen listening to teenagers' opinions. Then again, I've no proof of this.

It was of course a PR stunt, but that doesn't make her moronic. In fact, given the publicity that was generated because of this, she came across quite well.

But if you're calling her a moron in general, I've no problem with that

Deadevil129

I think I'll have to sing from the "If it aint broke, don't fix it" hymn sheet..

Seriously, I had my mocks after the Feb mid term break...
From the mocks I went into a week or two of intensive oral practise and correcting the aforementioned mocks...
From that I went into two weeks of Easter studying for the orals...
After Easter I had the orals for two weeks...
After the orals I had an Art practical to prepare for...
Then I had the actuall Art practical...
Then I had to deal with the actuall leaving cert.

That's no more than anyone else had to deal with but I nearly crumbled under all of that. Stick paper one of English and Irish in the centre of all that and I'd say that'd be the end of some students. I was more stressed over those few weeks than in the middle of the actuall exams, just because it was drawn out, one thing after another after another... Not to mention, paper one may not require study as such but for many people who aren't great at the English language in general, practise is a must; and it's practise they'll get in the last few weeks leading up to the exam. If I had Paper one English in May, I would have lost out on a valuable month of refining the way I answered things.

fionated7

i found once i started resing through english paoer one the nerves and sress levels decreased... everyone in my exam centre was in bits the first morning but by the end of the first three days everyone was really calm... during the second week we had a laugh, got to know people i always thought were nasty n it seems they are nice people... the leaving cert isnt that bad of an experience.. apart fromanswering the questions asked id almost say i enjoyed the two weeks..... and as for my music exam, that was jus fab!!

genericgoon

fionated7 wrote:

i found once i started resing through english paoer one the nerves and sress levels decreased... everyone in my exam centre was in bits the first morning but by the end of the first three days everyone was really calm... during the second week we had a laugh, got to know people i always thought were nasty n it seems they are nice people... the leaving cert isnt that bad of an experience.. apart fromanswering the questions asked id almost say i enjoyed the two weeks..... and as for my music exam, that was jus fab!!

Isnt answering questions a big part of the LC

Bluefox21

"take the foot of the pedal" thats exactly what I would do if they were spaced out its so much easier o have it over with quickly everyone is in the same boat so it doesn't make much difference!

fionated7

genericgoon wrote:

Isnt answering questions a big part of the LC

not when u give the wrong answers :cool:

Piste

Iirc May Hannafin wanted to bring in some sort of continuous assesment but loads of schools wr against it for some reason so she couldn't.