Penalty points off Collins Avenue into Albert College estate

Newcarneeded

Has anyone been done for penalty points turning left into a housing estate between Collins Avenue and the Ballymun Road?

I was done there recently. The left turn is banned between 7 and ten in the morning. I'm not from around the area and didn't see the sign. It is after all positioned right at the junction and I was on Collins Avenue for no more than 500metres.

I'd come out from Shanowen road, turned right onto Collins Avenue and then took the first left as per my GPS instructions. Anyway, got around the corner to see a Garda waiting for me.

So I said I didn't see the sign and explained that I wasn't from around the area. He was having none of it. Ticket written up he hops on the motorbike and gets ready to speed away. At which point I got out of the car and asked were there points for the offence.

He had been quick to tell me it was a sixty euro fine, but never mentioned the point, but he confirmed it was, failure to obey a left turn sign RUS13 is a one point offence under the Road Traffic Act according to my letter.

Anyway, I was pretty miffed at having been done, but what made it all the more galling was that as I was asking about the points, there was a steady stream of cars making the exact same left turn I had, so I just shrugged my shoulders and pointed at the other cars coming in, committing the same offence, and he ignored me and sped off.

The cynic in me reckons that as it was raining, he was headed back to the station to write me up and have a nice warm mug of tea. Although to balance that out one must consider the possibility he could have had an emergency call in his ear which he had to rush off too.

I mainly drive the M1, which has to be one of the most speedtrapped roads in the country, and never been done. I've been breathlyzed before, a random checkpoint as opposed to being suspected, so I actually thought I might have gotten away with a b*llicking on the day.

No such luck though.

Anyway, on an unrelated point, having been attemped burgled a number of weeks ago, I chased the b*gger out of the house, I'm still waiting for the "technical specialist" to arrive to take fingerprints. Maybe I should ask my prosecuting Garda to come out. He does seem keen! Although I suppose they've been well washed off with all the rain!

Wishbone Ash

Newcarneeded wrote:

The left turn is banned between 7 and ten in the morning.... ....So I said I didn't see the sign and explained that I wasn't from around the area

Sorry for your troubles. I think the left turn there is restricted to prevent motorists from using that residential estate as a shortcut to avoid the lights at the Glasnevin Road/Ballymun Road junction. The Gardaí are probably under pressure from residents there to ensure that it is complied with.

...and ignorance is no defence in law.

Newcarneeded

I know ignorance is no defence.

Held my hands up to the Garda, said fair enough. If I broke the law I broke it. I didn't see it but true enough when i went back to look there it was, regulatory sign, black arrow turning left, prohibited red bar and 0700-1000 clearly marked.

All I want is equal treatment before the law though, which is why I was quite miffed when he drove off as literally three cars drove past me having made the precise illegal maneouvre i'm being fined for.

In all fairness, the Garda had to wait for them to pass before he could drive off. Why fine me and let all them go? Wrong time, wrong place.

In my own opinion I don't think penalty points have worked. I don't think they have made any discernable change in driver behaviour. I'd wager there will be deaths on the roads after ****** next weekend.

There's no penalty point for driving tired which is as lethal as driving drunk.

Wishbone Ash

Newcarneeded wrote:

Why fine me and let all them go? Wrong time, wrong place

Possibly, to placate the residents and their superiors, the Gardaí are required to 'do' a few each day. I was stopped for knowingly turning right when it was restricted and the Garda said that the sergeant was under pressure from the local residents in the area to do a few each day!

In my own opinion I don't think penalty points have worked. I don't think they have made any discernable change in driver behaviour

I'm much more conscious of my speed since they were introduced.

There's no penalty point for driving tired which is as lethal as driving drunk.

Agree, but very difficult to measure though.

MercMad

I know the spot, I as mentioned the Gardai probably have to provide statistics to residents as part of some neighbourhood watch cr4p that they go through !

Anyway, these kind of offences should not carry penalty points, a fine of €60 is enough to prevent anyone from re commiting the offence !

richie_rvf

I know the spot too - you were unlucky alright!

You could have said you were going to the church

Richie.

_feedback_

could you have bluffed you are a resident? or are residemts not allowed entry / exit to the area between those hours too?!

Shiva

Theres a similar prohibition just after the Comprehensive School on the Ballymun Road, preventing you turning left onto Shanliss Road between 7 AM to 10 AM.

A few years back, before it was a penalty point offense, I took that turn just after 8:30 AM, because I actually lived in Oldtown Park (a cul-de-sac off Shanliss) and I could either take the turn, or go up to the lights at the top of Ballymun Road in heavy rushhour traffic, then swing left and and left again to get back onto Shanliss. It would have added maybe 10 minutes to my journey at the rate the traffic was moving.

So naturally, there were two Gardai stopping people.
And I *lost* it.

Long story short...I'd just got off a long flight, my car had been broken into in the airport car park, it was p1ssing rain, and I had just had to change a wheel in it.....bad start to the day all round.

The Garda asked me if I realised I'd made an illegal turn, and I started foaming at the mouth. Handed him my license, all the while ranting about "effing 500 quid road tax, every effing time you look around some effer in the country council puts an effing sign up to make traffic worse. I effing live down here, the effing council can go eff themselves, I'm effing well going to court to challenge this, I dont effing care how much they try fine me, I'm not effing paying an effing penny, I'm effing well doing this, that and the other....rant, rant, rant". Completely over the top, which in all honesty, is very unlike me.

The Garda just let me rant away without saying anything, and when I started to run out of steam, he started laughing and told me to feck off home and to make sure I didnt do it again.

Fair play to him....I was way out of order, and he'd have been well within his rights to throw the book at me, but I never heard anything about it.

I've been careful where I turn ever since though....:)

Alun

I agree it's a bit silly to make something like this a penalty point offence, especially considering the other offences that carry one point like driving around a roundabout the wrong way or driving the wrong way down a one way street! A fine on it's own would be perfectly adequate.

Esel

The problem with saying you didn't see the sign is that you could then be charged with careless driving or driving without due care and attention or whatever!

There is also an evening restriction on this turn - 1600-1900.

jjbrien

So what happens if you live in that estate? DO you have to drive upto DCU turn around and come back down the road again to get to your house?

PauloMN

MercMad wrote:

Anyway, these kind of offences should not carry penalty points, a fine of €60 is enough to prevent anyone from re commiting the offence !

While I hate the notion of getting points for such an "offence", simple fines don't work. I'd happily take the chance of having to pay the odd €60 here and there and continue to make illegal turns, as I'm sure many others would.

I wouldn't take the same risk with penalty points though. I was only thinking the other day how I've subconciously slowed down on the roads because of penalty points - I never sped around like a looney, but would have frequently been up to 10mph over the limit. I'm pretty much always within the limit now. Definitely down to the risk of losing the license. A fine only wouldn't (and didn't) have the same effect.

Wishbone Ash

Shiva wrote:

Handed him my license, all the while ranting about "effing 500 quid road tax, every effing time you look around some effer in the country council puts an effing sign up to make traffic worse. I effing live down here, the effing council can go eff themselves, I'm effing well going to court to challenge this, I dont effing care how much they try fine me, I'm not effing paying an effing penny, I'm effing well doing this

jjbrien wrote:

So what happens if you live in that estate? DO you have to drive upto DCU turn around and come back down the road again to get to your house?

These signs are usually erected because the residents lobby and pressurise their local representatives and the Council. Therefore residents are unlikely to object to the restrictions or mind going the 'long way around'.

(I'm not sure if the restriction applies for local access. Anyone?)

MercMad

(I'm not sure if the restriction applies for local access. Anyone?)

..........surely the Law can't discriminate .........can it ?

APM

was going past that road the other day, saw a car turning myself, looked at the gps but it was too late to make the turn.2 seconds later I got in line with the turn and saw a garda car and a bike out taking details from at least 2 drivers. Hadn't noticed the no left turn sign until I looked out for the sign later in the week.

user5000

This just happend to me at that same junction. I have been turning there for months and it finally caught up with me. I am not sure if penalty points will apply but they might get you under 'Failure to comply with prohibitory traffic signs' which would incur a €60 fine and 1 penalty point/3 after court conviction.

I really hope I wont get points as it was not actually a dangerous offence, like 30 minutes lafter my offence some stupid woman who drove through a red light to turn left onto Griffith Avenue when clearly there was only a green arrow for going straight. Luckily she didn't kill anyone as the pedestrian light was green. Should they not be getting people like that off the road rather than punishing people who can't use a road because some residents living there don't like it?

The Garda told me that if you live in Albert College that you can make the turn but since there is no other sign that says local access only between the hours of x and x and there is only a a normal no left turn sign, it means these people are effectively breaking the law. Now how come the Albert College residents are above the law???? Also apparently the residents (or maybe one idiot with nothing better to do) had been complaining about cars using the road, the public road that we pay taxes for, imagine that. They don't want people who don't live there to drive outside their house, lucky for us that the people on Collins Ave don't have the same complaint or let alone everyone who happens to live on a public road. To me it seems absolutely absurd, I live in the area and don't feel like sitting in a 10 minute traffice jam because most cars on Collins Ave are going straight onto Glasnevin Ave and I cant get to the filter lane to turn left. And for that matter why should anyone have to sit in a traffic jam and needlessly expel extra polluting gases into the atmosphere when there is an alternative road with less traffic all because some stupid residents want private access to a public road? Maybe I should contact the Gardai so that I can have exclusive access to the public road that my house is on and which is also used as a short cut.

I think those residents should get a life and pay for all the Garda time that they have wasted (also time paid by us tax payers).

Padraig Mor

Slightly OT: do those "Residents Access Only" or similar signs have any legal standing? They're often situated at rat runs but with no accompanying regulatory sign.