Ahern disgraces himself with ''suicide'' comment

Dacelonid

Drax wrote:

All blown out of proportional as usual. He meant it as a joke relative to the context of that he was saying. However what an unbelievable choice of words from our very own Bertie 'Dubya' Ahern.

I couldn't agree more. To me he had illustrated a point in a great way, ie if all these naysayers are so depressed about the economy how have they not ended it all.
Typical Irish media though to blow the whole thing out of proportion. All the radio shows have people who attempted suicide on them, all the talk is of suicide. Granted it is a big problem, and raising public awareness and the breaking of the taboo around talking about suicide are laudable goals, but why make such a big deal about what Bertie said as a joke. Why not actually have programmes on the TV and Radio about suicide and raise awareness of the problem? Because it is easier to sensentionalise a nothing story than to actually do something useful
Well thats me 0.02c anyway

jmayo

Liam Byrne wrote:

I think SkepticOne has hit the nail on the head; the media latched on to the wording, whereas it's the content of the speech that should be called into question.

According to Bertie in the speech, we're doing great and suggesting otherwise is the sign that you are pessimistic and depressed, i.e. forget the rising prices, sickening house prices, ****e healthcare, chronic quality of life, crap infrastructure, tribunals, money-wasting and scandals and look at what we have achieved.

While he does have a partial point, in that all success is relative and we are "better off" than before in lots of ways, his arrogant dismissal of those who disagree with him (or even those who point out that there are lots of OTHER things we should focus on in order to improve life overall) is VERY worrying.....he's almost doing a George Bush: "if you don't agree with me 100%, you're wrong/deluded/pessimistic"

The actual truth lies somewhere in between, but implying that people who point that out are mentally ill or so pessimistic that they're probably suicidal is the sign of a complete and utter out of touch arrogant asshole!

Yes of course he has to maintain the economy is going great, otherwise how will his government try and convince the gullible masses that they should fork out a load of borrowed money, that will be paying back well into what would be their pension age, for an overpriced badly built box in the ars*hole of nowhere, with no amenities close to hand.
How would his building buddies fare if we didn't keep them in the style they are now accustomed.

According to bertie and his cronies, anybody that doesn't agree that our economy will head south farily soon should end it all.
Yes that really shows a great level of intelligence and also illustrates how those in power and building trade view anyone that doesn't keep their gravy train on the tracks.

I think his choice of words were as usual ill conceived just like most of his plans. What really pis**s me off is his supposed explanation and apology to those affected by suicide, that he later gave to reporters.

He smirked and laughed his way through it.
It just displayed his contempt and arrogance for people.

Villain

Bertie's comment was stupid and insulting but he has aploligised for it even if badly, so its not much of an issue really, its interesting to see how many people are interested in the topic though compared to the number who were interested in the topic about the tribunal and how Bertie (IMO) lied to the nation before the election.

You know I think FG might look back on the past election and think they were lucky not to win it because people are starting to talk about a crash in the ecomony and thats all its takes in a small nation like ours to actually get a crash i.e. people stop buying houses and stop spending money and FF will be the party that were in power when it happened.

jmayo

irish1 wrote:

...
You know I think FG might look back on the past election and think they were lucky not to win it because people are starting to talk about a crash in the ecomony and thats all its takes in a small nation like ours to actually get a crash i.e. people stop buying houses and stop spending money and FF will be the party that were in power when it happened.

FF will also be the party that drove us into the recession.

Some people have been talking about how the construction industry was allowed take over the economy for the last five years. Some people have also been complaining about house prices and quality of houses, lack of planning etc.
Lots of people did not care since they were doing alright, property was rising and everything was hunky dory with low interest rates.
There are still some of those people around, sure property will never crash, our bubble is different.
You find them on every forum, some are in the building industry, some work for estate agents, some work for banks. Some just do not want to believe they will be staring at negative equity, be stuck in their shack for many years to come, in some commutter town. Worse still they may lose that shack and possibly have to emmigrate like their ancestors before them.

There are a couple of things that have made more people cop on to what a great econmomy we have and how it is overhyped.
The biggest thing is the increasing interest rates. It means that the huge mortgages are begining to hurt, that new builds are not selling and that some of the eejits that bought property for investment are seeing that not alone won't the rents cover the mortgage but that they will not get the promised capital appreciation.
Another thing is we are heamoraging jobs in non-construction, retail and public sector areas.
This last point is something someone from Carlow should only know too well about.

The line that "we will talk ourselves into a depression/recessionor crash" is pure cra*.
Outside forces will cause the economy to contract and lead to collapse, we ourselves in our panic may decide how fast this happens.

Villain

I agree 100% jmayo I wasn't trying to say we alone by simply talking will cause a crash, my point was if things continue to slow down and people start to panic and stop spending any disposal income or taking out huge loans we will make the slow down and eventually the crash much worse.

As you say being from Carlow I am only too well aware of the job losses and we actually are starting to see job losses in construction now too, developers have a huge amount of land with planning permission around carlow that is either for sale becasue the developers want to make some money rather than take the risk of building and not getting a return or they are just sitting on the land waiting to see what will happen.

Carlow has seen a very large influx of people from surrounding areas due the house prices been much lower than those towns closer to Dublin, but Carlow prices have caught up now and the sale of houses has slowed down and I know 2 Civil Engineer's that have been let off sites in the past month.

simu

Akrasia wrote:

Emile Durkheim wrote his Book Suicide in 1897 and most modern 'suicidology' is based on his ideas.

The central point he discovered was that Suicide was highest in groups of people suffering alienation.

In terms of Capitalism, we have been 'closer to Boston than Berlin' for 20 years now (at least) and (along with the U.K.) individualist capitalism is eroding society and increasing exclusion and marginalisation.

By pursuing individualism almost as a religion it is inevitable that many people will be lost along the way.

Looking at the wiki entry for Dukheim's book (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suicide_%28Durkheim%29), it mentions that he had a theory that Catholics had a lower suicide rate than Protestants due to the Catholic concept of suicide as sin and the closer family ties typical of CAtholic countries. Maybe the decline of religion in Ireland is a factor (there must e more than one factor, though)? Although I don't buy the idea that we've swapped Catholicism for consumerism directly - I think Catholicism was damaged more by the actions of the Church itself - although maybe you could say a focus on consuming has replaced religion for some. (Note: I don't trust wiki that much - not sure if that article reflects the ideas of the book well).

However, I wish that people would criticise Bertie for concrete things like any policies or statements of his they disagree with rather than jumping to take offense at his words.

walshb

Jackie laughlin wrote:

Bertie may have talents but speaking isn't one of them.

If ever a truer word was said....

He's laughable at times, but obviously very likeable.
The more he lets himself down, the more the people like him.
It' strange really...

I listened to him. He couldn't even pronounce the 'ing' in the words
cribbing and moaning....."cribbin an moanin"

He's just plain funny

MooseJam

walshb wrote:

If ever a truer word was said....

He's laughable at times, but obviously very likeable.
The more he lets himself down, the more the people like him.
It' strange really...

I listened to him. He couldn't even pronounce the 'ing' in the words
cribbing and moaning....."cribbin an moanin"

He's just plain funny

it's called an accent, I'm sure you have the perfect D4 accent though right :rolleyes:

Dave!

If that's not a reason to hang him, I don't know what is! On a serious note, move along.

fly_agaric

walshb wrote:

I listened to him. He couldn't even pronounce the 'ing' in the words
cribbing and moaning....."cribbin an moanin"

He's just plain funny

I think his Dublin accent comes out a bit stronger in moments of stress/irritation/excitement.

As for Berties bad-taste comment, I suppose the fact that himself/FF generally are cock-a-the-whoop/feeling bulletproof after the election explains it.
Anytime I see/hear an FF minister on the box at the moment the cat that got the cream comes to mind.

Lemming

fly_agaric wrote:

Anytime I see/hear an FF minister on the box at the moment the cat that got the cream comes to mind.

Someone should have told them the cream's nearing its expiry date and set to sour quickly ...

walshb

MooseJam wrote:

it's called an accent, I'm sure you have the perfect D4 accent though right :rolleyes:

Accent my ar**....it's called executing proper diction!!!

Well I'm a DUB and I too have an accent. However I do speak a little clearer and do try to pronounce words properly. He is after all the head of our state.
Can we not expect a little better. He's not some DUB football yob, he's the Taoiseach. As one poster said, when he's rattled and excited, he always lets himself down.

As for D4, sure most of the time folk from there are so preoccupied with speaking properly, that they actually try too hard and end up speaking improperly....It's a funny old world!!!