Driving test - blinds spots?

SeanW

I have a driving test coming up in a couple of weeks and I feel reasonably well prepared - I'm getting lessons and practice to get my driving up to driving test standards.

But I've just found a discrepancy between what I had previously understood about over the shoulder blind spot checking and what I just read in the AA "Pass That Test" book as well as the Rules of the Road 2007 pdf.

Apparently, the MSMM (Mirror Signal Mirror Maneuvere) procedure always includes a check of the blind spot, which means looking behind over your shoulder in the required directions, and it's a Grade 3 fault to miss a blind spot check, which has to be done any time the MSMM is required including normal turns.

Frankly, looking behind you even for a second while the car is going forward doesn't even sound safe. What is the testing standard on this? Any pointers?

Posy

My instrustor always tells me mirror, signal, check blindspot then start to move off. I check it when the car is still stopped anyway.

Creamy Goodness

you check the blindspot over your shoulder when you are moving off or changing lanes or going over the white line to overtake or for any other reason that you'll cross the white dividing line. also you check it obviously when you're doing your reverse around a corner too.

Prenderb

You should check your blind spots frequently, and especially before making a manoeuvre. Despite what previous posters say, it is highly important to check your blind spot at roundabouts, when carrying out left and right turns.

What would happen if you were turning right just as somebody was in your blindspot, having decided to overtake you? Would that be more awkward than checking your blind spot?

What if some idiot on a bike was turning left at the same time as you, in your blind spot and you didn't check it and crunched him? Would it be more difficult to face his parents, or would it be more difficult to face looking over your shoulder?

Please please please check your blind spots before carrying out maneouvres.

Dr. Loon

Cremo wrote:

shouldn't be necessary when doing a simple left turn/right turn/roundabout.

Worst piece of advice on a driving test topic ever! Jesus!

Creamy Goodness

edited out so,

i still stand by my comments though at a roundabout, because any roundabout i'm at i am always in lane before coming to it, (i check blind spot when/if changing lane) so i don't see the need of having to check it again.

Dr. Loon

Cremo wrote:

edited out so,

i still stand by my comments though at a roundabout, because any roundabout i'm at i am always in lane before coming to it, (i check blind spot when/if changing lane) so i don't see the need of having to check it again.

Fair enough. Believe me, last night I had to head to work for some afterhours stuff. Roads relatively empty, and I saw madness on a roundabout. 2 lanes, 1 guy in left 1 guy in right stopped at lights. I was behind the guy in the left lane as I was going straight through. Took off. The guy in the left lane should have obviously have been going left or straight through but halfway through the roundabout decided to drive into the right hand lane. Which was occupied by a car! I saw the guy in the right lane check over his shoulder, brake and avoid an accident by an idiot!

If the chap in the right hand lane hadn't have checked his blind spot there most certainly would've been a crash. I'd say check your blind spot regularly, just in case. Same as mirrors. People don't pay enough attention to the blind spot.

You shouldn't only check mirrors when turning, changing lanes etc. You should be constantly glancing and scanning everything you can possibly see. Same with the blind spot.

PS - Turns out the guy that cut into the right lane was actually going straight through and did this same thing at the next roundabout but went right! Clearly didn't know how to use a roundabout.

Wishbone Ash

In my opinion, it is poor practise to look over one's shoulder to check a blind spot in a moving vehicle. It is not necessary as it can be observed by making greater use of the field of vision in the side mirrors.

A candidate who has passed a test in category B is also qualified to drive a small van. One can't look over one's shoulder in a van and many vans don't have glass on the rear doors either. I think it is more appropriate to get into the habit of using the mirrors only.

tc20

Wishbone Ash wrote:

In my opinion, it is poor practise to look over one's shoulder to check a blind spot in a moving vehicle. It is not necessary as it can be observed by making greater use of the field of vision in the side mirrors.

Wishbone, i cant believe you have said that....
picture yourself on a dual c/way or m-way, in the left hand lane and wishing to needing to move into the right hand lane. You check your mirrors, you signal, you check again, nothing there so you begin to move into the right hand lane.....at the least there will be blaring horns and a bit of bad language. At worst....
To check ones blind spot on the move does not entail throwing your head completely around like something out of The Excorcist. A quick sideways glance should suffice, as ones peripheral vision is very adept at recognising an object there.
now of course, a good driver will be checking their mirrors on a regular basis to keep up to date with traffic movements. But there are situations (busy city or multilane traffic for example) where one could easily miss some movement of traffic, esp motorbikes, so i cant disagree with you more when you say its poor practice to do a blind spot check in a moving vehicle.
Granted its easier in a car, cos of the glass area, but i think you will find most commercial vehicles have smaller convex wing mirrors in addition to their main wing mirrors. If they dont, they only cost a few bucks.

Wishbone Ash

tc20 wrote:

A quick sideways glance should suffice, as ones peripheral vision is very adept at recognising an object there

I was referring to the practise of looking back over one's shoulder while moving/changing lanes.

tc20 wrote:

i think you will find most commercial vehicles have smaller convex wing mirrors in addition to their main wing mirrors

Most larger vans have them but not small vans and car derived vans.

tc20 wrote:

Wishbone, i cant believe you have said that....

Fair enough, I did say it was my opinion. The only time I look over my shoulder to check a blind spot is if I'm on a motorbike. It is not possible in most vehicles that I drive.

tc20

Wishbone Ash wrote:

I was referring to the practise of looking back over one's shoulder while moving/changing lanes.



Most larger vans have them but not small vans and car derived vans.



Fair enough, I did say it was my opinion. The only time I look over my shoulder to check a blind spot is if I'm on a motorbike. It is not possible in most vehicles that I drive.

So a quick sideways glance doesn't count as a blind spot check?

As i said, you can pick up convex mirrors for a few quid in any motor factors

So, as a motorcyclist, you will have had a few near misses from car drivers not checking their blindspots, and still you discourage car drivers from carrying out this life saving technique?

Vikings

tc20, Wishbone never said that he did not/does not check his blind spot, he just said he does not look back over his shoulder.

To which I would agree with, if you are paying attention to your surroundings then there should be no need to do this in most situations, the only time I would really do this is when merging onto a dual carriageway or motorway where I can not see the main lanes from the merging lane on my approach.

Though in saying that I do find that when changing lanes etc I will use both my mirrors and a blind spot check, whether thats a quick glance or a full blown head swing owl movement.

tc20

Mustangs wrote:

tc20, Wishbone never said that he did not/does not check his blind spot, he just said he does not look back over his shoulder.

ok, if i misinterpreted this, then i apologise.

With regard to the OP and the need to check blind spots in a test situation,
i would use the full head over the shoulder movement when about to move the car out from a stationary position. eg just before you are about to move off from your hill start, at the same point in the turnabout (3point turn) manouevre, and the reverse round the corner.

SeanW

I'm particularly interested to hear from people who've passed their test and what they did.

Also, while practicing for my test in (Longford) town yesterday, traffic descended to chaotic levels and at one point, law and order on the roads totally broke down.

On a one way, single lane street with box junctions, other motorists were squeezing to make 2 lanes out of it, and the box junction was completely ignored by everyone else - people joining the street all took my holding back from it as me letting them join. I had to pass very close to parked cars to maintain a safe position, and had to move into the box junction to avoid getting cut off by everyone.

If a situation like this reoccurs on the day of my test how should I handle?
1: A situation where I am instructed to take a right turn but the destination lane is at a standstill (or the lane I need to cross for that matter)
2: If all law and order breaks down on the roads in a situation similar to that above, what should I do?

Wishbone Ash

SeanW wrote:

1: A situation where I am instructed to take a right turn but the destination lane is at a standstill (or the lane I need to cross for that matter)
2: If all law and order breaks down on the roads in a situation similar to that above, what should I do?

Don't worry too much about it SeanW. Your tester will continually access the situation and will make alternative arrangements. Test routes are regularly disrupted by road works, accidents etc. The tester will have met those situations many times before. If he/she requests that you make a right turn and then discovers that the road is hopelessly blocked they may request an alternative move if possible. You can't be penalised for the mistakes of others but you can be penalised for your reaction to those mistakes but generally, the candidate gets the benefit of the doubt.

Dr. Loon

Wishbone Ash wrote:

In my opinion, it is poor practise to look over one's shoulder to check a blind spot in a moving vehicle. It is not necessary as it can be observed by making greater use of the field of vision in the side mirrors.

I wonder as to the usefulness of this forum if people are posting stuff like this. This is supposed to be where learners can get good advice from experienced drivers no? Poor practice to check your blind spot? The point is that your mirrors don't give you the vision of your blind spot! Hence the "quick" glace over your shoulder.

I passed my test only at the start of this year and regularly checked my blind spot over my shoulder so, anybody doing the test I recommend do this, and maintain it when you pass as well please.

Something happened to me again yesterday where if I didn't check my blindspot, a guy would have probably hit me. It's essential to good driving.

Wishbone Ash

Dr. Loon wrote:

Poor practice to check your blind spot?

Please read my post again. I never said that the blind spot shouldn't be checked. I said that, in my opinion, it was bad practise to check one's blind spot by looking over one's shoulder in moving traffic. There are other ways of checking it.

Dr. Loon wrote:

The point is that your mirrors don't give you the vision of your blind spot! Hence the "quick" glace over your shoulder.

Perhaps you could tell us Dr. Loon, how you would check a blind spot if driving a van. Looking over your shoulder will merely give you a close-up view of the bulkhead. It is easily possible to check one's blindspot by using a mirror. Moving your head forward while looking in the side mirror will give a field of vision to include the blind spot.

Dr. Loon wrote:

so, anybody doing the test I recommend do this, and maintain it when you pass as well please.

Again, would you recommend this method to those who intend to do the test in a van?

Dr. Loon wrote:

Something happened to me again yesterday where if I didn't check my blindspot, a guy would have probably hit me. It's essential to good driving.

Of course it is, but it can easily be done without looking over one's shoulder.

Dr. Loon wrote:

I wonder as to the usefulness of this forum if people are posting stuff like this

In relation to your post, I'm tempted to agree!

Dr. Loon

Wishbone Ash wrote:

Perhaps you could tell us Dr. Loon, how you would check a blind spot if driving a van. Looking over your shoulder will merely give you a close-up view of the bulkhead. It is easily possible to check one's blindspot by using a mirror. Moving your head forward while looking in the side mirror will give a field of vision to include the blind spot.


In relation to your post, I'm tempted to agree!

Even in a car when merging into traffic, taking a turn, changing lanes etc. etc I would quickly lean forward and check over my shoulder. Leaning forward increases my view even more so. Are you telling me this can't be done in a van? As was mentioned previously, you don't need to swivel your head 180 degrees. Over your shoulder in a van will give you a view, which your mirrors cannot. I'm not talking about unbuckling your belt and jumping into the backseat for God sake!

Learners should be taught this. There are far too many people not checking blindspots.

Duckjob

In terms of the test, I remember my instructor always told me to use blindingly obvious head movements in the test to demonstrate that you're 'observing' things.

Ideal situation is to have an ongoing high level of awareness about what traffic is behind you, to your left, to your right, in your blind spots etc., but I'd always throw a glance over my shoulder if I'm not 100% sure.

J_R

Hi,


What has the restricted view in a van got to do with the way you drive a car ??. Has been mentioned that some vans do not have back windows, does that mean you should not use your interior mirror in a car and somehow try and compensate for your now total lack of a view to the rear. ??

Car: When the car is stationary, full backward shoulder checks to your blind spots. Otherwise quick sideways glances should suffice - and are essential both for the test and everyday driving. Full backwards looks whilst changing lanes are normally unnecessary and could be dangerous.

Van: Compensate for the fact you can not do a shoulder check by any means possible. leaning forward, backwards, whatever, and for everyday driving, adjusting existing mirrors, fixing additional blind spot mirrors, or purchase Lane FX

And in the test, van or car, it is totally unnecessary to exaggerate any movement for the benefit of the tester. Otherwise Duckjob agree with your last paragraph.

GreeBo

Cremo wrote:

edited out so,

i still stand by my comments though at a roundabout, because any roundabout i'm at i am always in lane before coming to it, (i check blind spot when/if changing lane) so i don't see the need of having to check it again.

Thats just scary.
So your reason for not checking your blind spot is that you checked it earlier and it was clear?
How long do you go without checking it?

Anything could have entered your blind spot while you were waiting to join a roundabout...