How often do you redline your car ?

OKenora

Every once in a while - Its good for it

So which car were you referring to as regards not revving it over 4000rpm?

My Alfa, it's my own daily driver, the hint is in the 2.4 bit, it's a diesel. The Supra is impossible to redline as it's an auto box, the BMW simply does not need redlining either. It can happily stay within it's power band through the mid range of the revs..

The difference in my car between 60 in 2nd or 60 in 3rd is about 1.5 seconds

Bully for you..BUT...the only place you should even be in the slightest interested in that performance is on a track. If you drive on the roads like that then you should not because it's a ROAD not a TRACK. All that aside from the damage you are doing to your engine.

Then again if you can afford the repairs go ahead, it is your car you are destroying.

JHMEG

OKenora wrote:

Bully for you..BUT...the only place you should even be in the slightest interested in that performance is on a track. If you drive on the roads like that then you should not because it's a ROAD not a TRACK.

Well I don't see any difference between say a Civic pulling off say from the hard shoulder accelerating to merge safely and quickly with motorway traffic in 2nd gear at high rpm, and an LS400 accelerating at the exact same rate to do the same. The LS400 will do it with a lot less fuss, and thus seem safer, more responsible, blah blah blah...

Volvoboy

:eek:
:eek:
:eek:

FFS! I dont even drive the car over 3k rpm cold or hot, in any of the cars i've had.



-VB-

colm_mcm

Regularly - It happens in my normal driving

ah, you should. It's great craic. (how do you overtake anything?)

Volvoboy

Use my gears,,, properley





-VB-

Theres no harm in using the engine up to the redline.

colm_mcm

Regularly - It happens in my normal driving

only using the engine up to 3,000 rpm on a 16 valve is ridiculous!

Volvoboy

Meh just the way i drive, woudnt be the most law abiding motorist either,



-VB-

unkel

Regularly - It happens in my normal driving

OKenora wrote:

it is your car you are destroying.

Not sure I understand what you're saying. Are you saying that regular redlining destroys a car (engine) in your opinion?

maidhc wrote:

For those who say that no harm can come of it I wish ye luck. Any machine is more prone to breaking when it is under stress, and a machine will be under more stress when it is being hammered

But a proper engine should be able to handle being hammered. The engine in my 11 year old BMW with >136k miles on it gets hammered all the time and it's grand

Granted, I wouldn't treat my car like that if I had a middle of the road Opel or Toyota or something like that

OKenora

Every once in a while - Its good for it

Are you saying that regular redlining destroys a car (engine) in your opinion?

Of course not, my opinion counts for sh1t here, I am simply saying it will obey the laws of physics, get hotter have less efficient lubrication, generate more heat and eventually fry itself.

But a proper engine should be able to handle being hammered

So when an F1 driver wants to save his engine what does he do ? He drops the revs and changes early, but sure F! engines would not be proper engines ? Or maybe it's a simple law of physics, run the engine faster and it gets hotter and wears quicker. I know F1 engines are highly stressed but they are designed to run at high revs yet they still think it prudent not to use them if they do not have to. Your car engine is not designed to run at the redline no matter how good it is and continuously doing it WILL eventually destroy it.

Asked earlier and nobody replied, anyone want to volunteer the car they drive that they feel needs revving to the redline all the time ?

JHMEG

A well designed and built engine, if maintained properly, will outlast the car itself, redlined or not.

F1 engines are designed to last hours, not decades.

blastman

colm_mcm wrote:

Any of them I've ever seen rev out at 7,000.

Not sure if they go as high as 13000rpm, but it's close to that. There's no way it's 7000, anyway.

unkel

Regularly - It happens in my normal driving

I hear what you're saying, OKenora. The hotter the engine, the more wear. But that's all relative.

JHMEG wrote:

A well designed and built engine, if maintained properly, will outlast the car itself, redlined or not

Exactly. If I treated the engine of my car with great mechanical sympathy, it would probably last 100 years. By revving the bejaysis out of it all the time, it might only last 15-20 years, after which time it is an economical write-off anyway

unkel

Regularly - It happens in my normal driving

blastman wrote:

Not sure if they go as high as 13000rpm, but it's close to that. There's no way it's 7000, anyway.

I've never been in one, but max power is at 6500rpm, so redline at 7000 is about right. Certainly not 13000rpm or anywhere remotely like that. What makes you think they rev that high?

JHMEG

OKenora wrote:

Asked earlier and nobody replied, anyone want to volunteer the car they drive that they feel needs revving to the redline all the time ?

Any DOHC VTEC engine encourages it, as do high revving MIVEC (4G9x) engines, and some VVTL engines (eg Celica 190). The change in induction note (notes if it's a MIVEC) high up the rev range from these engines is addictive, and redline gearchanges are a given. I dunno, but I'd say the Audi S4 also encourages it.

My last car was DOHC VTEC, as it my current. I don't feel the need to redline it too often. But I do like to redline it.

Kojak

I usually redline my car just before an NCT in order to "burn off" any excess carbon that may give the emissions too high of a rating

unkel

Regularly - It happens in my normal driving

Kojak wrote:

I usually redline my car just before an NCT in order to "burn off" any excess carbon that may give the emissions too high of a rating

I was driving up and down the N4 near Lucan for a bit in 1st gear doing about 80km/h (just under the redline iirc) just before my last NCT. The car did very well on the emissions test

OKenora

Every once in a while - Its good for it

By revving the bejaysis out of it all the time, it might only last 15-20 years

Close, just remove the 5 and 0 and you are exactly right on what is possible with engine abuse...1-2 years. engine wear is vastly acellerated at high revs, thats why F1 engines are only lasting hours, they aren't designed to last hours, they can't last more than hours due to the high revs and stresses. This of course for f1 is worse as the components are as weak/light as they can make them but the main culprit is the wear rate, not inherent weaknesses. Your average car manafacturer also will also use components that are at or near the very minimum spec for the job. Why over engineer a part when you can engineer it minimally, save weight, materials and expense.

A road engine is just the same, it is not designed for continuous high revs and is definitely not designed for regular redlining. If your engine was designed to drive respectably for 100 years then fine rev the nads off it all the time and get 10-15 years, but realisticaly your engine is built to last about 10-15 years in average use, regularly revving it hard shortens this, quite considerably for some cars.

To earlier poster...WOW your 0-60 is 1.5 seconds slower changing gear earlier, so if you encounter 150 sets of traffic lights a day (impossible even in Dublin I imagine) and rev the nads off the car to get to 60 asap (presuming the 30mph limit means nothing) you save a whopping 3-4 minutes a day. Wish I had something in my life that was that important to save those 4 minutes for. Ironically I would easily imagine that you have knocked far more than the 4 minutes saved off the life of your cars engine.

As I said, in Mondello or Kirkistown i would be well pissed at a 1.5 second defecit on a lap, let alone on a 0-60 time but on the M50 or North Circular it just doesn't seem as important or appropriate.

unkel

Regularly - It happens in my normal driving

OKenora wrote:

Close, just remove the 5 and 0 and you are exactly right on what is possible with engine abuse...1-2 years

C'mon, lasting only 1 or 2 years - what engines or cars are you talking about? As I stated, my car is 11 years old and has 136k miles on it

JHMEG

unkel wrote:

C'mon, lasting only 1 or 2 years - what engines or cars are you talking about? As I stated, my car is 11 years old and has 136k miles on it

And to add to unkel's testimony, my Integra was 16 years old, 137k miles on the clock, and still pulling like a train when I sold it. No work apart from regular servicing, and compression was still well within spec when it was 15 years old (the last time I tested it). And I'd be quite sure the previous owners showed it the redline fairly regularly.

maidhc

All the time - In every gear.

unkel wrote:

C'mon, lasting only 1 or 2 years - what engines or cars are you talking about? As I stated, my car is 11 years old and has 136k miles on it

Its not just the engine in fairness, I you drive the car hard you are putting the entire drive train under pretty severe pressure.

I think it is also fair to say Okenora is right, that manufacturers don't exactly over engineer their stuff.

Here on boards there is a common perception that once a car is serviced you can hammer it, that the only reason cars break down is when they are not serviced and that once you polish your car every sunday you are looking after it!

I'd suspect that a lot of problems Alfas suffer (including numerous blown engines) result, not from the fact they are bad cars, but because they are bought by a clientele who enjoy (perhaps too much) driving them hard.

cpoh1

Guys its a simple as this, an engine is designed to withstand certain tolerances, if it was bad for an engine like a honda to see 8krpm then the manufacturers would have lowered the rev limit. The truth is that these cars can take over the standard tolerance levels of the engine and still survive happily.

I had three hondas all with high mileage that saw 8krpm every single day, my mk2 crx (with over 150k miles!) and integra had over 10 track days between them and were perfect. My skyline sees the redline every time I drive it at the weekends and is mint.

Engines wear and fail because crap oil is used (engines get warm, the problem is that the oil used wont cater for this and breaks down at high temps), a good oil will be able to handle the increased temperatures of spirited driving. People also dont warm their engines up before driving them. I have never in my life seen a rally car or race car driven from cold, my car gets 10 minutes in the drive before leaving it, I wont hit 4krpm till the oil reaches over 80 degrees and once it hits 120 I wont drive the car on any longer.

Keep your oil fresh, show your car a little compassion when cold and your car will happily sing to the redline for well over 200k miles! I really do laugh at all the people who think theyre being nice to their engines because they dont go above 3krpm yet drive their car exactly the same way from stone cold and service their 10 year old polo only every 12k miles.

JHMEG

maidhc wrote:

I think it is also fair to say Okenora is right, that manufacturers don't exactly over engineer their stuff.

Maybe all marques aren't made equal (understatement). From what Unkel says his BMW has been well up to it, from cpoh1's statement all his Hondas and his Nissan have been up to it, and my Integra was certainly up to it.

maidhc wrote:

I'd suspect that a lot of problems Alfas suffer......

Maybe Alfas aren't up to it?

maidhc

All the time - In every gear.

JHMEG wrote:

Maybe Alfas aren't up to it?

Maybe and maybe not, but ultimately driving something on will bring out the worst in it.

I see all the time with (old) farm machinery that we have at home. It never breaks when it is being operated by myself or my father, but put some idiot who can't take his time on board and you have a break within an hour.

smemon

only time i'd redline is coming onto a main road from a standing point with not much of a gap in traffic..

i can't see any other reason for redlining.. maybe to give out some heat on a frosty morning :rolleyes:

noise pollution if you ask me.. funny how it's 90-something cars with noisy exhausts that you see at it the most :cool:

unkel

Regularly - It happens in my normal driving

smemon wrote:

only time i'd redline is coming onto a main road from a standing point with not much of a gap in traffic..
i can't see any other reason for redlining

I can. Any time I overtake on a single carriageway, I floor it.

smemon wrote:

noise pollution if you ask me

You what? It ain't a supercar, it isn't worth much, but I love the noise of my V8 petrol engine revving up when I put my foot down real hard

blastman

unkel wrote:

I've never been in one, but max power is at 6500rpm, so redline at 7000 is about right. Certainly not 13000rpm or anywhere remotely like that. What makes you think they rev that high?

It's got a motorbike engine with a turbo bolted on, so it's a little different to a normal car. The redline is definitely up around 12000 or higher, and yes I've been in one while it was being redlined.

OKenora

Every once in a while - Its good for it

Maybe Alfas aren't up to it?

You rarely see a properly serviced and care for Alfa engine expire due to an engine problem. They do however have a crappy tensioner system on the timing belt that fails, answer, change the cambelt every 36k on the petrol TS models and as for the electrics....enough said.....

I agree, some manafacturers engines and built stronger than others. but they all wear more at high revs. I also agree with using premium oils as a way of reducing wear if you intend to rev your engine hard. How many people here though that redline their car can even tell us what brand of oil is in their engine at the moment ?

There will always be the pampered car that gets more of the best and more often than the rest (mines on a 6k oil service regime with selenia racing). But a lot of people here don't do that, as pointed out beleiving that the oil put in by the garage once a year is enough. I bet that if everyone here who said they regularly redline their engines was honest that we would have an amount of people who have not checked their oil level since the cars last service and a larger amount that have not checked it in the last month.

Do you still think in that situation that redlining for these people on standard oil, level never checked is a good idea ?

Anyway my daily drivers a diesel so my only need to redline is when I need a smoke screen to escape something

JHMEG

Have a look at this video. Good example of just how tough a modern engine can be. Who needs oil! Water will do!

http://videos.streetfire.net/video/f/cfc000b5-bdc3-4008-b8b0-8aa19cbcbdf4.htm

fletch

I seem to recall a feature on Fifth Gear where they were showing the testing that a Ford Focus went through. They ran the car at full (6,500rpm) revs for something like two weeks non-stop without a problem.