Discriminating against tenants

eddyc

I was watching the tv3 news there and there was a story about a letting agent who had put an advert on daft.ie saying that the property could only be rented by irish people only.

This is of course a disgrace and is probably illegal.

Unfortunately what they failed to highlight in the report are the many adverts that say females only.

I can understand if it is sharing a room or even just sharing a house of just females, but a 1 bedroom or apartment or a bedsit?

How can a one bed flat just be suitable for females only?
Is this legal?

Trinity

Was only thinking about this myself as currently looking for rented accommodation and having great difficulty.

It certainly is discrimination just as not accepting rent allowance or allowing families with children. However as these are private houses that landlords have paid hundreds of thousands for, i suppose they have the right to say who resides in their property. The agency are only acting on the landlords behalf and unfortunately i dont think it is illegal even if it is disgraceful.

loyatemu

I think you can legally specify male or female only if you are sharing the flat, but if you are renting out a vacant flat, probably not.

nickyjellybaby

Yeah I agree that it's disgraceful but usually its more ignorance than racism
I am an agent and there is one race of people I will NOT rent a property too and I have very good reason and experience why not to and I recommend my landlords the same
It has NOTHING to do with racism but the culture in their country leads them to be disrespectable and abusive to both landlords and properties. However, in my last 7 years there has been 1 exception to that rule and I have rented to them without a problem

Discrimination like this usually comes from one bad experience that costs the landlords thousands in either unpaid rent or damages so you can understand why
In the case of females only thats unusual but they probably rented the property to a guy that thrashed the place and therefore it's stuck with them

There are bad Irish tenants out there too but with foreigners and social welfare the landlords have the impression that if something were to go wrong there's no way of bringing them before the small claims court for damages or calling them up in their job if they aren't working

As for children, certain properties aren't suitable ie dangerous balconies, uneven footpaths etc and there can be a claim made if a child fell down steps etc and the landlord wasn't adequatly covered with insurace

I'm a landlord myself and I rent to a social welfare couple wit their second child on the way and the property is spotless! cleaner than when I handed it over to them. They are fantastic tenants

daveirl

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nickyjellybaby

thats true daveirl

patrickolee

But if they didn't put it in the ad and "just ignore the calls from people they weren't interested in" would that not be worse? You can imagine how frustrating and time consuming it would be for the eastern european or male (depending on how they are discriminating) to find a flat. At least the landlord is been upfront and not wasting people's time. When I was renting I remember it was quite common for places to advertise for female only. Didn't bother me, I'd just cross them off the list and move onto the next one. What did annoy me, was when you'd turn up, look through the flat/house, and then be told in the 'interview' that really they were looking for girls. Waste of time, tell me upfront.

CherieAmour

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055101039&referrerid=&highlight=daft

Similar enough to the point your making - some interesting arguments in this thread along the same line

eddyc

People dont have to rent out their property , just like people dont have to set up any other business's.
In many other business's cases if the business owner is ripped off by the customer, there are laws and procedures in place to help him recoup his loss.
It is also illegal to discriminate against sections of society because you think that they might rip you off.

How is this different to landlords, if they have had bad experiences in the past why do prospective tenants have to pay for their prejudice, surely there is a way for them to minimize the risk without rejecting major sections of society.

Is this a fault in the way the law is implemented . Do the landlords have it too much their own way?

patrickolee

Just human nature. If you get ripped off by on several occasions by a (for example) tall red haired person with glasses... the next time you meet a tall red haired person with glasses you will be cautious.

bugler

Haha. Nice analogy patrick

As others have said, it may not be fair, but in reality in might save the potential tenants hassle.

Ultimately, a landlord can pick and choose his/her tenants. If they don't want rent to you because you're black/foreign/etc then they won't rent to you. They might not rent to you because you remind them of an ex-lover. They can say "the property has been let" as soon as you call. They don't need to give a reason. You are not 'entitled' to rent their property. I don't see how anyone can prove they were discriminated against on these grounds either, ultimately landlords get their choice. Placing it on adverts is obviously a bit different, as they are coming out and saying it, and it is discrimination. But at least it's saving those looking time and effort :-|

eddyc

Would it be ok for a publican to not let any black people into his pub then?

You are saying that discrimination goes on, and that there is nothing anyone can do about it, so just except it.

Its like saying that there should be no laws to protect consumers, I mean you dont have to buy anything do you?

If you are not entitled to rent their property then maybe they should stop advertising it on the open market.

They are not entitled to be landlords without a license, god knows many of them dont bother.

daveirl

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eddyc

Well what is the difference who rents the property as long as they pay the rent
obey the law and dont damage the place.

Do we not have laws in place to deal with bad tenants? And if so why the need for discrimination in the first place?

daveirl

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bugler

Entitled means you have a right to it. No one has a right to rent property from anyone else, whether it is advertised on Daft.ie, in the Irish Times, or hanging from a flag on O'Connell Bridge.

Unfortunately, renters (and I am one), are at the mercy of landlords. It's their house, and if I want to live in it I make it clear I'm interested in it. If they then decide not to rent to me (as happened 10-12 times last time I was looking)), there is nothing I can do. I am not entitled to an explanation, I am not privy to the workings of the landlords rationale. It is his house, and he has the right to choose who he wants to live in it, it can't be foisted on him by anyone else.

Discrimination on the grounds of sex, race, religion or whatever isn't right IMO, but it does happen. The problem in this sector is proving it. You can't really. There is no real comparison to Consumer Law, in these cases there are concrete facts, receipts, etc. Now the tricky bit is the publication of a preference for 'Irish Only', 'female only' etc.

This may well contravene some laws, I don't know, but I do know you can't compel people to rent their place to all nationalities or sexes, it is just unpoliceable. And I don't believe forcing them to remove these words from adverts is helping anyone. Sure we'll have the fact that this sort of discrimination isn't apparent on the surface, but it will still be there. And the end result? People hearing "that apartment isn't available", and wasting their time chasing properties that they will never get.

patrickolee

bugler wrote:

And the end result? People hearing "that apartment isn't available", and wasting their time chasing properties that they will never get.

QFT

Trinity

Just as a matter of interest regarding discrimination. Out of the 2835 properties to rent in dublin city - only 66 say they will accept rent allowance. Thats less than 3%, is my maths correct? Its still a very low amount either way.

I have been watching landlords reduce their rent on daft in the last week, maybe the demand isnt so great after all and they may have to be less particular.

I'm in the luckier position of having a job and previous references but i'm still finding it impossible. The prices are extortionate tbh.

antoinolachtnai

There are lots of good commercial reasons for not accepting rent allowance. For instance, the fact that it is being phased out?

Trinity

antoinolachtnai wrote:

There are lots of good commercial reasons for not accepting rent allowance. For instance, the fact that it is being phased out?

I hadnt heard this.

I did hear of a new scheme for people on long term rent allowance called RAS where landlords supply tenants with 4 year leases. So certainly in this instance it isnt being phased out. The health board are committing themselves to 4 years rent allowance. The council are not providing any social housing i.e council houses, so i cant wait to see what they come up to replace the rent allowance.

antoinolachtnai

That's what I meant yes, RAS. From the point of view of the landlord, RAS is quite different from rent allowance.