Clocked Car alert

smash

gbh wrote:

I just think Carzone have assisted this dealer in some way and other dealers who do similar things...i'm sure they would argue that they take no responsibilty for what people post on the site. However among all the other wrongs, this is clearly a case of False and Misleading Advertising. Surely Carzone have to put in place measures to ensure it doesn't happen again such as asking for proof of genuine mileage and in this case a copy of a HPI cert before publishing the ad.

ye, because carzone proof reading about 5,000 classified ads a month and requesting a validation of mileage from 1000+ dealers advertising about 70 cars each a month is a reasonable request... come on... dealers should be doing this themselves!

flanzer

playchicken wrote:

Hi Ted,
I'm a journalist with a national newspaper. Get in touch. This story should be told.

I was just going to mention that!

Former Zoo member put behind bars in car clocking scandal!!

Those headlines write themselves!

gbh

steve06 wrote:

dealers should be doing this themselves!

Are you serious? Get real. My point is valid...Carzone are contributing to the problem by advertising these cars.

Owen

gbh wrote:

Are you serious? Get real. My point is valid...Carzone are contributing to the problem by advertising these cars.

Your point is pointless. That's like asking the buy and sell to go out and check that every fridge has a door, and every couch has 3 seats. The public can also sell vehicles on Carzone too, and on top of all that, Carzone remind people on their site to get the vehicles checked before they're bought!

I use Carzone, for a stock of about 70 used cars. It takes me about 2 hours a week to update the basic site, and anything up to 2 days if I have to shoot photos. Now you expect a written submission to Carzone for the full service history of the car, with the mileage at each stage to prove the lineage of the odometer, and perhaps a photo too of the odo? It would take a week to admin it, at which point the cars would either be sold, or out of date.

gbh

ned78 wrote:

Your point is pointless. That's like asking the buy and sell to go out and check that every fridge has a door, and every couch has 3 seats.

I use Carzone, for a stock of about 70 used cars. It takes me about 2 hours a week to update the basic site, and anything up to 2 days if I have to shoot photos. Now you expect a written submission to Carzone for the full service history of the car, with the mileage at each stage to prove the lineage of the odometer, and perhaps a photo too of the odo? It would take a week to admin it, at which point the cars would either be sold, or out of date.

ok fine...you are in the business, hence a vested interest, hence you would say that.

I am just saying that there needs to be regulation or some sort of oversight to ensure that the cowboys are weeded out...but if the general public and I mean the general public and not car dealers don't want that then sher they will be shafted by dodgy dealers every day of the week.

Do you agree there needs to be regulations to weed out clockers or dealers who don't check for clocking?

Owen

gbh wrote:

ok fine...you are in the business, hence a vested interest, hence you would say that.

It's got nothing to do with having a 'vested interest'. It has everything to do with practicality.

gbh wrote:

Do you agree there needs to be regulations to weed out clockers or dealers who dont check for clocking?

Definitely. Buyers need to be protected against rubbish like this. Most main manufacturers have schemes in place to protect customers against fraud, Toyota Dealer Cover, BMW Approved User Cars, Opel Network Q, etc. Hopefully this type of malicious fraud will be confined to yard sale type Dealerships in the future.

Bottom line is it's always Caveat Emptor. Get the car checked by the AA, or whoever. It's your money!

Henry Ford III

I agree with ned78 here.

Dealers should not be responsible for crossing every t and dotting every i in an internet ad.

However, if any dealer, small or large ever sells a clocked, cloned, crashed or otherwise dud car, the penalty should be severe. A full refund + expenses for the poor customer, and a sizeable fine on top.

TedKelly

Well no phonecall again today so looks like it'll be solicitor/consumer affairs route I'll be taken. To make matters worse The car is sitting up on a jack at the moment in my drive with a f*ckin puncture. I can't get the wheel off. This is my first car with alloys and I realise there is a "locknut" or something but I'm lost..... Any help would be appreciated. (Sooner I see the back of this car, the better)

m_stan

Henry Ford III wrote:

I agree with ned78 here.

Dealers should not be responsible for crossing every t and dotting every i in an internet ad.

However, if any dealer, small or large ever sells a clocked, cloned, crashed or otherwise dud car, the penalty should be severe. A full refund + expenses for the poor customer, and a sizeable fine on top.

I agree its not practical to expect that everyone should provide proof of mileage to a website, but if any such dealer is caught they should simply be banned from using such sites as carzone forevermore. Not sure how that process would work - maybe the Consumer Affairs publishes a list of the offenders, and Carzone, Buy And Sell etc need to cross reference that list when accepting ads. Maybe that would work.

Bottom line - you are both right. Buyer beware, but also as consumers we have the right to expect to be protected when things go bad.

m_stan

TedKelly wrote:

To make matters worse The car is sitting up on a jack at the moment in my drive with a f*ckin puncture. I can't get the wheel off. This is my first car with alloys and I realise there is a "locknut" or something but I'm lost..... Any help would be appreciated. (Sooner I see the back of this car, the better)

Check the boot space where the spare is or the toolbox in the boot or the glove box for the lock nut. Its usually in one of those three places.

mikemac

I still remember the PrimeTime programme about dealers fixing prices and clocking cars.
It was in 2005 I think but memorable television and I'm sure I'm not the only one who remembers this.

When this is all sorted Ted, maybe drop a line to a researcher in RTE and they might use your tale of woe in a documentry.
Of course, maybe you don't want this attention and that's fine but I'd love see more of these gangsters named and shamed on national TV.

Who can ever forget the dealer on the last PrimeTime who was confronted by the reporter on the premises and was told to call back in 2 hours and the milage discrepancy would be sorted. Busted!

Owen

m_stan wrote:

if any such dealer is caught they should simply be banned from using such sites as carzone forevermore.

Now that's a good idea! If a Dealer does such shennanigans, they should have to put a case together to be allowed to advertise again online, with the new procedures they have put in place to make sure clocking doesn't happen on their forecourt again.

unnameduser

It is amazing to think that the dealer in question has not tried to sort this already.

best of luck

Seth Brundle

playchicken wrote:

Hi Ted,
I'm a journalist with a national newspaper. Get in touch. This story should be told.

A big claim. Can you verify this?

TedKelly wrote:

Well no phonecall again today so looks like it'll be solicitor/consumer affairs route I'll be taken. To make matters worse The car is sitting up on a jack at the moment in my drive with a f*ckin puncture. I can't get the wheel off. This is my first car with alloys and I realise there is a "locknut" or something but I'm lost..... Any help would be appreciated. (Sooner I see the back of this car, the better)

Ted, I know for a fact (don't ask me how!) that they are on site and therefore I can only assume they are hoping you go away.
Stop listening to advice on the interweb, as you know all you need to know, and talk to a professional before you are left with a car that you may never be able to sell!

TedKelly

What type of professional do you recommend I talk to (Solicitor Presumably). How much is that gonna cost me?

Seth Brundle

Talking to a solicitor usually costs you nothing. They will discuss everything and if you take it further they will mention fees and who is likely to have to pay them.
Talk to the solicitor about concurrently talking to Consumer Affairs. This is an important consumer issue but look after number 1 first!

mickjohnlong

i know it will probley be hard to find but make sure the solicitor you talk to has had cases to do with the motor trade as you dont want someone who will take it on as a learning curve as they wont really be on the ball and could end up taking longer and not get the result you want

Seth Brundle

Anyone know one?

mickjohnlong

not of hand the simi or consumer affairs might have a list or if you pick a number for an assessor and ring them to see if they know anyone

Seth Brundle

Personally I'd contact the latter first.

ballooba

The ODCA seem to pursue these cases, they had their first conviction last week.

TedKelly

Ok, so I have finally started the ball rolling. Have just completed on online complaint through the consumer affairs website. Hopefully they will be in touch fairly quickly and will be able to advise me further.

Owen

Good for you Ted. Keep us updated!

Seth Brundle

Well done.

pa daly

Ted get into a solicitor first thing in the morning. Explain everything to them, show them the documentary evidence etc....

You already gave the garage a chance so the first step the solicitor will take will be sending them an official letter, THEN the ball will be rolling...

And remember you done nothing wrong and you have all the advantagew

yop

Ted ring consumer affairs this morning mate, they are slow enough coming back.
I would also get onto a solicitor asap.

I would be wary of SIMI, I don't know why but they may prefer to protect their "boyz"

Did you find the locknut? Could be in glove box also

daedalus2097

You can get a tool for undoing most locknuts but it destroys the secure head, so it's a last resort thing and you should have a spare nut/bolt available...

mickjohnlong

yop wrote:

I would be wary of SIMI, I don't know why but they may prefer to protect their "boyz"

sorry was meant to say if contacing the simi about the list of solicitors try get it without telling them the story

DeepBlue

micmclo wrote:

I still remember the PrimeTime programme about dealers fixing prices and clocking cars.
It was in 2005 I think but memorable television and I'm sure I'm not the only one who remembers this.

The first ten minutes of the Prime Time Investigates programme of December 2005 deal with clocking.

Seemingly clocking a car is not an offence :eek: - it's just knowingly selling a clocked car that's an offence.
How does one prove that a dealer knew the car was clocked?

Seemingly the mileage recorded by the NCT is valueless as they'll record the mileage they see even if if it's less than the mileage the car had the last time it was tested :eek:.

Best of luck to Ted. I hope he gets this sorted but I wouldn't want to be in his position.

Spocker

DeepBlue wrote:

Seemingly the mileage recorded by the NCT is valueless as they'll record the mileage they see even if if it's less than the mileage the car had the last time it was tested :eek:.

This is true, my car "lost" 100,000 miles between 3 consecutive NCT's - for the one in the middle is was just the display of the leftmost digit (the 1) had faded, the guy just wrote down what he saw