Title Challenging Fans, do you fear Man United?

DSB

DSB wrote:

But they have. They've been playing football for most of their lives.

For United

zAbbo

At least we know Utd fans don't get Python humour, who'd have thunk it.

As a Liverpool fan do I fear ManU, nope, I do fear Neil1984 though (maybe his name is a reference to Big Brother)

zabbo

zabbo wrote:

At least we know Utd fans don't get Python humour, who'd have thunk it.

As a Liverpool fan do I fear ManU, nope, I do fear Neil1984 though (maybe his name is a reference to Big Brother)

Nah mate, wouldnt watch that crap if ya paid me.



U guys are very precious d'ya know that, maybe its the no title in the last 17 years or sumtin but trying to get an objective opinion out of a Liverpool fan is like trying to get water out of stone...

DSB

Deleted User wrote:

For United

But you're talking like people have no basis to say whether a player will be good or not? Of course they do they've been watching the players play for other clubs and their countries for quite a while. The predictions could be completely wrong but then again thats kinda what a place like this is for. I'm sure no1 is silly enough to claim it as fact that any player is going to be amazing. Except all the Villa signings of course;)

The Rooster

The Rooster wrote:

Hmmm.......let me think.....perhaps it was your writing style I was talking about, rather than what your face looks like?!! ........or maybe I can see you through that camera that hangs over your monitor......

So u wouldnt serve me if i walked up to u in a bar cos of that? U go round to every punters house and read their online messages do ya? Seems I dont have a camera, maybe u should stop hiding outside my house before I get a restraining order.




And Im not making anything up. Im saying that u guys comparing Hargreaves to O'Shea (who incidently score as many goals as Shevchenko last season) is moronic. Its like me comparing Traore to Sissoko......

DSB

DSB wrote:

But you're talking like people have no basis to say whether a player will be good or not? Of course they do they've been watching the players play for other clubs and their countries for quite a while. The predictions could be completely wrong but then again thats kinda what a place like this is for. I'm sure no1 is silly enough to claim it as fact that any player is going to be amazing. Except all the Villa signings of course;)

I bet most of the guys talkin about Hargreaves have seen him play about 5 times. And most of em probably have only seen Nani and Anderson on youtube.

Cyrus

whereas you have a full time subscription to the german and portugese league

Hobart

Deleted User wrote:

I bet most of the guys talkin about Hargreaves have seen him play about 5 times. And most of em probably have only seen Nani and Anderson on youtube.

True and....'We would have gotten away with it, if it weren't for these meddling kids'. Good spot scooby!!

zAbbo

Deleted User wrote:

Nah mate, wouldnt watch that crap if ya paid me.

I think you might need to expand your horizons to understand the Big Brother comment.

DSB

Deleted User wrote:

I bet most of the guys talkin about Hargreaves have seen him play about 5 times.

How many times do you have to see a player before you can form an opinion?

RE*AC*TOR

I have to say, if I were a UTD fan I would hope to god that Niall1984 would whisht up. He's doing them a great disservice. Seriously, he makes PHB seem like a balanced voice.

The Rooster

Deleted User wrote:

So u wouldnt serve me if i walked up to u in a bar cos of that? U go round to every punters house and read their online messages do ya? Seems I dont have a camera, maybe u should stop hiding outside my house before I get a restraining order.......

Great stuff Neil, you're playing a blinder

Deleted User wrote:

And Im not making anything up. Im saying that u guys comparing Hargreaves to O'Shea (who incidently score as many goals as Shevchenko last season) is moronic. Its like me comparing Traore to Sissoko......

I agree, there's no way Hargreaves will come up with as many goals as Jockser.

At least you've backtracked on the stuff you made up about Tevez when you were found out. Fair play.

jank

RE*AC*TOR wrote:

I have to say, if I were a UTD fan I would hope to god that Niall1984 would whisht up. He's doing them a great disservice. Seriously, he makes PHB seem like a balanced voice.

Says the most balanced voice of the all.....

The Rooster

The Rooster wrote:

Great stuff Neil, you're playing a blinder



I agree, there's no way Hargreaves will come up with as many goals as Jockser.

At least you've backtracked on the stuff you made up about Tevez when you were found out. Fair play.

I didnt backtrack on anything.

RE*AC*TOR

jank wrote:

Says the most balanced voice of the all.....

thank you.

your sig is still too big by the way.

DSB

DSB wrote:

How many times do you have to see a player before you can form an opinion?

Put it this way. Ive seen Quagliarella (the Sampdorian, now Udinese, lad who was linked with United) play maybe 3 times, and when he was linked, i didnt know one way or another cos u cant judge a player based on a few performances. Thats generally why scouts are sent to watch potential targets.

RE*AC*TOR

RE*AC*TOR wrote:

I have to say, if I were a UTD fan I would hope to god that Niall1984 would whisht up.

What is whisht up? Talk sense little boy. Also its Neil not Niall, again, learn to read.



Im acting like a Liverpool fan in reverse, annoying isnt it.

The Rooster

Deleted User wrote:

I didnt backtrack on anything.

You did yeah.

You said and made up a quote about Liverpool fans saying Tevez wasnt any good.
So you were accused of making this up as any reservations about Tevez are about how he'd fit into the ManU team, not about his ability.

Then you replied to this by going on about how Hargreaves won't score as many goals as O'Shea.

Thats as clear a backtrack as you'll find.

DSB

Deleted User wrote:

Put it this way. Ive seen Quagliarella (the Sampdorian, now Udinese, lad who was linked with United) play maybe 3 times, and when he was linked, i didnt know one way or another cos u cant judge a player based on a few performances. Thats generally why scouts are sent to watch potential targets.

So you watched a player play 3 matches and couldn't tell whether he was good or not?

RE*AC*TOR

Deleted User wrote:

What is whisht up? Talk sense little boy. Also its Neil not Niall, again, learn to read.



Im acting like a Liverpool fan in reverse, annoying isnt it.

You're hardly annoying, in fact if anything this is the best entertainment I've had on the soccer forum in a long time.

Whisht up at your own discretion, Niall.

The Rooster

The Rooster wrote:

You did yeah.

You said and made up a quote about Liverpool fans saying Tevez wasnt any good.
So you were accused of making this up as any reservations about Tevez are about how he'd fit into the ManU team, not about his ability.

Then you replied to this by going on about how Hargreaves won't score as many goals as O'Shea.

Thats as clear a backtrack as you'll find.

Look in the United thread. Pool fans in there sayin he's a big gamble. Go back a few weeks of the Pool thread and the same Pool fans in there saying he's great etc etc.


I sit beside millersangel in work and he did just that. I joked that we'd buy Tevez at the end of last season and he said and i quote "U cant, we're gonna buy him". When this story broke yesterday he said "He's a gamble and Id b worried about his loyalty" basically anything negative now that hes (probably) United player.



The OShea goal reference was valid. He scored as many as Sheva this season. Hargreaves wasnt bought for goals so I was makin refernce to it as I joke mainly. Comparing a defensive clown like O;Shea to Hargreaves who played great stuff for Bayern in the Bundesliga and Champions League the past few years (Ive watched him closely since he was linked to see what all the fuss is about - Id bet my hat most of u have only seen the odd game here or there where ui werent even lookin out for him) is stupid no matter what u say.

DSB

DSB wrote:

So you watched a player play 3 matches and couldn't tell whether he was good or not?

Never said that. But would u catagorically go on record about a guy based on 3 games probably seen over the space of 2 or 3 years? No. If u watched Barcelona in the month of December havin never seen any of their players before u would be sitting here now tellin me that Ronaldinho is rubbish......

Pepe LeFrits

Not really.

Hype doesn't win trophies, and winning teams are built, not bought. United already have a winning formula, and their new signings could actually weaken that formula.

Personally, as things stand, I think Chelsea will win the league next season.

RE*AC*TOR

RE*AC*TOR wrote:

You're hardly annoying, in fact if anything this is the best entertainment I've had on the soccer forum in a long time.

Whisht up at your own discretion, Niall.

Hmmmm, u dont read the Liverpool thread much no? 2007: "This is our year", scroll back to 2006: "This is our year" etc etc. I find that funny.

Or maybe go in there and read some of the "experts" talk about Ronaldo.....

Pepe LeFrits

Pepe LeFrits wrote:

Not really.

Hype doesn't win trophies, and winning teams are built, not bought. United already have a winning formula, and their new signings could actually weaken that formula.

Personally, as things stand, I think Chelsea will win the league next season.

I think the African Nations Cup is gonna weaken Chelsea to be honest. But then again they have cover for Terry and Carvalho now...if they all stay fit theyll obviously be very close

marco_polo

zabbo wrote:

I think you might need to expand your horizons to understand the Big Brother comment.

I thought he meant Monthy Python :eek:

The Rooster

Deleted User wrote:

Look in the United thread. Pool fans in there sayin he's a big gamble. Go back a few weeks of the Pool thread and the same Pool fans in there saying he's great etc etc.

I sit beside millersangel in work and he did just that. I joked that we'd buy Tevez at the end of last season and he said and i quote "U cant, we're gonna buy him". When this story broke yesterday he said "He's a gamble and Id b worried about his loyalty" basically anything negative now that hes (probably) United player.

The OShea goal reference was valid. He scored as many as Sheva this season. Hargreaves wasnt bought for goals so I was makin refernce to it as I joke mainly. Comparing a defensive clown like O;Shea to Hargreaves who played great stuff for Bayern in the Bundesliga and Champions League the past few years (Ive watched him closely since he was linked to see what all the fuss is about - Id bet my hat most of u have only seen the odd game here or there where ui werent even lookin out for him) is stupid no matter what u say.

No backtracking on your backtracking please. Read the charter.

Nobody disagrees that Hargreaves is not as prolific as the big O-Six.

DSB

Deleted User wrote:

Never said that. But would u catagorically go on record about a guy based on 3 games probably seen over the space of 2 or 3 years?

But no1 has expressed their opinion as fact?

DSB

DSB wrote:

But no1 has expressed their opinion as fact?

There are certain people here who present their opinion as fact.




As for the constant nitpicking by opposition fans about the money issue, here it is.



United, because they are Man United, always have to pay more than a player is worth in order to get them This has been going on for years as United have had a lot of money for a long time. There is no way the fees they paid in the last decade are reflective of a players ability. Learn to live with it, cos its happening to Liverpool and Chelsea now too. When Spurs are in for a player hes worth 10 million, once United, Chelsea or Pool come in u can bring that up to at least 12. thats the way it works.


The comparison to Chelsea annoys me. Heres why:


United bought Ronaldo and brought him along and developed him into the type of player they want him to be. They are now trying to do this with nani and Anderson. I dont agree with the prices paid but thats it, they are prices, and nothing more. Theyre also in installments pending development which imo is a good deal. If they become great players Im happy to pay the 17 mill for them. But how is it bad to buy quality young players and develop them into great players in the image of what u expect from the style of that club?? Chelsea have been buying up young players at an astonishingh rate but rarely give these guys game time. Insted they fork out on established players like Ballack, Essien, Sheva, Drogba, Joe Cole, Frank Lampard etc etc. Look at Sean Wright Phillips, if u think that would have happened him at united then u are stupid. United buy young players and give them a chnace. How is buying two unproven young player, buying the league? regardless of their price? The Pole is back up. Tevez IF he signs is on loan just like Mascherano, and just like Mascherano United will have to pay at the end of that loan. Which means add 16 million to what Pool spent this year fpr Mascherano by Roosters logic. Hargreaves is the only established player United have signed so far. And yet the "buying the league" accusation goes flying around??

DSB

Deleted User wrote:

There are certain people here who present their opinion as fact.

An example of this happening being?

zing

Deleted User wrote:

And to say you're a Liverpool fan but u appreciate good football while slatin United all in the same post is a bit contradictory dont u think?

Is it comfy up there on that high horse of yours ?

zing

zing wrote:

Is it comfy up there on that high horse of yours ?

Could do with a few more cushions actually. Im not arguing about this anymore. We can agree to disagree and Ive said all Im gonna say. Some saw my points, other took things I said out of context. Doesnt matter.


Know any good cushion shops who deliver?

DSB

Yeah these sell class 1s online.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/login.php?do=logout&logouthash=3f9d0d0c3fdfb8391d3fc1d4004ed8d8

zing

Getting back to the topic ... Are Utd there to be feared - in short No.

Fergie has done the natural thing this summer and tried to strengthen his title winning team and it doesn't really matter how much he's paid for who. Many other teams are strengthening too (Liverpool, West Ham, Man City about to start, etc..) and I think it's going to be very interesting & exciting season as a result and I think we'll probably see a bigger divide between the top & bottom halves of the table (where I don't literally mean half == 10 teams). But every team has it's weaknesses and it's the job of every other team to identify those weaknesses and try and exploit them. Plus no one can predict injuries, etc..

So for me Utd should be feared no more than any other team but they should be respected - as should just about every other team in their own way.

Rikand

Blackburn and its supporters fear no one!

carlop

I'm a united fan and while im obviously excited about the new signings, i'm a bit fearful that the squad will take a long time to settle. Bringing in a number of players in the summer can often lead to a slow start as a team struggles to gel. Liverpool, Chelsea and Spurs were all affected in this way last season and Inter up until last season were a constant example of this. Having said that, I'm glad that the dark days of o'shea and giggs forming our central midfield partnership are over and our squad should be well able to cope with injuries.

PHB

In terms of the league, what United have done is one key thing, the addition of Hargreaves (we'll wait till Tevez signs )

He will add a huge amount to United's league challenge. There were lots of games last season, the ones we dropped points in, where it was clear from the start that Carrick and Scholes just couldn't dominate the midfield.
Carrick and Hargreaves are not alike, it's like saying Gattuso and Pirlo are alike. They play in the same position, DM, but their game is totally different.
In tough games against strong midfields, Hargreaves adds a huge amount, which will help out in terms of points.

We only had four wingers last season, Ronaldo, Giggs, Park, and Richardson. Next season our wingers in order of choice will be Ronaldo, Giggs, Park, Nani.

We were weak in terms of cover for Scholes, we he wasn't playing, like about 10 matches a season, we weren't great. Fletcher was the cover there, now Anderson is, with Fletcher covering Hargreaves in the DM position.

Tevez will be an interesting one, but I think Rooney and Tevez can work together up front, and I think it'll make a big difference if he joins.

Hargreaves is a great great addition for the league, and if you want to ask questions of him as a player, he's won more medals than most of the people currently in teh United squad.

Nani adds depth, Anderson adds depth, depth that will allow us to get the best out of other players, including, and most importantly, Giggs and Scholes.

IMO, it's still 40/40 between United or Chelsea, with 10/10 with Liverpool or Arsenal.

PHB

In terms of the league, what United have done is one key thing, the addition of Hargreaves (we'll wait till Tevez signs )

He will add a huge amount to United's league challenge. There were lots of games last season, the ones we dropped points in, where it was clear from the start that Carrick and Scholes just couldn't dominate the midfield.
Carrick and Hargreaves are not alike, it's like saying Gattuso and Pirlo are alike. They play in the same position, DM, but their game is totally different.
In tough games against strong midfields, Hargreaves adds a huge amount, which will help out in terms of points.

We only had four wingers last season, Ronaldo, Giggs, Park, and Richardson. Next season our wingers in order of choice will be Ronaldo, Giggs, Park, Nani.

We were weak in terms of cover for Scholes, we he wasn't playing, like about 10 matches a season, we weren't great. Fletcher was the cover there, now Anderson is, with Fletcher covering Hargreaves in the DM position.

Tevez will be an interesting one, but I think Rooney and Tevez can work together up front, and I think it'll make a big difference if he joins.

Hargreaves is a great great addition for the league, and if you want to ask questions of him as a player, he's won more medals than most of the people currently in teh United squad.

Nani adds depth, Anderson adds depth, depth that will allow us to get the best out of other players, including, and most importantly, Giggs and Scholes.

IMO, it's still 40/40 between United or Chelsea, with 10/10 with Liverpool or Arsenal.

jesus_thats_gre

Without doubt. United done well last season and took advantage on Maureen ****ing with the Chelsea system and the rumours of his possible sacking. However, I always thought that if they suffered any amount of injuries, particularly to Ronaldo or Giggs, that they would stuggle to win the league as they didn't have sufficient quality in the squad to cover them. That didn't happen and they deservedly won the league.

Now that they have gone out and spent a massive amount of money and with Tevez rumoured to have signed, they will be considerably more powerful this season. So yeah, defo fear them.

KdjaCL

jesus_thats_gre wrote:

Without doubt. United done well last season and took advantage on Maureen ****ing with the Chelsea system and the rumours of his possible sacking.

But that just showed that if you take X out of Chelsea that Chelsea are ****, he hasnt replaced or got someone to replace X if X is injured.

My prediction is a :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek:

A man utd pool top 2. Pool wont win but they get close.


kdjac

jank

They can still only play 11 at a time.
Too Many cooks spoil the broth, bit like Chelsea last year.
Saying that though the team that finishes above them will be Champions

jesus_thats_gre

jank wrote:

They can still only play 11 at a time.
Too Many cooks spoli the broth, bit like Chelsea last year.
Saying that though the team that finishes above them will be Champions

Good man Jank, love that you are consistent at least.

Yes, they can only play 11 per game. But considering that most team rotate through the guts of 20 players and suffer injuries, having 16/17 quality players this season is better than having 12/13 quality players last season. Consider the fact that United were devastating going forward last season and were able to maintain their attacking form as they suffered few injuries to their main attacking players. They are unlikely to as fortunate this season but they don't have to worry about that now as they have added nearly 60 million worth of attacking players.

As for Chelsea. Their problems were certainly caused by having too many cooks, but it had little to do with the squad of players they had. There was so much going on behind the scenes last year that it is no surprise that the team did not perform as well as they did before. Another problem was the decision by Maureen to effectively dispence off any wingers and play 4 central midfielders for the majority of the season. How effective this is can be seen in the current England setup.

jesus_thats_gre

KdjaCL wrote:

But that just showed that if you take X out of Chelsea that Chelsea are ****, he hasnt replaced or got someone to replace X if X is injured.

My prediction is a :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek:

A man utd pool top 2. Pool wont win but they get close.


kdjac

If Chelsea revert to playing with wingers, 1 out and out winger will do, they will defo be challenging and possibly winning the league next season. Chelsea and Liverpool set ups are built from the back and both either lacked or under utilised quality wingers last season. This why Liverpool's focus now is on two wingers and why Chelsea are trying to sign Malouda.

jank

Good man Jank, love that you are consistent at least.

I too return the compliments:rolleyes: even though you agree with alot of what i say

Sure its a squad game these days (wasnt it always;) ) but what will united best XI be?

Last year they had a settled side from the go, this year it wont be the case. 4 new players is a lot to throw in and expect to start doing the business from the off. Sure they could pick the same XI as last year but wont the fans and more importantly the Glazers ask why fork out XX million on new players with fancy names when they can get a game! I think pressure will come from somewhere to throw Nani, Hargreaves, Tevez? and Anderson in at the deep end. If the sink or swim its up to them.

The team they are building are more catered from the CL.

Chleseas problems were due to their injures especially in defense. Essien had to play there a number of times thus weaking the team quite a bit. They never really played much with wingers anyway, or conventional wingers to be more precise. They just pludgened opponents to death. If cech wasnt injured they would be champs imo.

The title of the thread was am I scared of untied, the response was no way!
Chelsea were expected to walk it last year and look what happened.
A season can throw up alot of surprises:D

Surely you think this is going to be the pools year... yet again??:p

jesus_thats_gre

The Glaziers will have absolutely no influence on team selection. AF will pick who he wants. The only pressure will be from the fans and he won't bow to that pressure until he thinks they are ready.

The only immediate changes I would expect is the introduction of Tevez ahead of Saha and maybe Hargreaves now and again depending on the opposition.

Pool have a slightly better chance of winning it than Arsenal do. Saying that, its between United and Chelsea. Do I **** myself thinking about United? No. Do I worry whether the Pool can challenge them? God yeah.

Mitch Connor

jank wrote:

I too return the compliments:rolleyes: even though you agree with alot of what i say

Sure its a squad game these days (wasnt it always;) ) but what will united best XI be?

Last year they had a settled side from the go, this year it wont be the case. 4 new players is a lot to throw in and expect to start doing the business from the off. Sure they could pick the same XI as last year but wont the fans and more importantly the Glazers ask why fork out XX million on new players with fancy names when they can get a game! I think pressure will come from somewhere to throw Nani, Hargreaves, Tevez? and Anderson in at the deep end. If the sink or swim its up to them.

The team they are building are more catered from the CL.

Chleseas problems were due to their injures especially in defense. Essien had to play there a number of times thus weaking the team quite a bit. They never really played much with wingers anyway, or conventional wingers to be more precise. They just pludgened opponents to death. If cech wasnt injured they would be champs imo.

The title of the thread was am I scared of untied, the response was no way!
Chelsea were expected to walk it last year and look what happened.
A season can throw up alot of surprises:D

Surely you think this is going to be the pools year... yet again??:p

Up to around march United did benifit from having a settled 11 for the most part of the season, however, you could see players like Scholes and Giggs were nackered at the end of the campaign - Rooney played in short bursts of what we know he can do, Ronaldo tailed off towards the end of the season, and we didn't see Saha after Christmas. The biggest thing our summer signings will do is allow us to rest players, while still maintaining a viable attacking threat. Look at the United bench for most games last season, not a game changer among them - this season we'll have a few.

As for the Glazers putting presure on fergie to pick certain players..... i highly doubt it. I'm no fan of the Glazers, and the amount of debt they have put the club in to; but there has been no implications, anywhere, that the Glazers have interfered with team selections at all in the past, or anything Fergie does, so i see no reason to think they will do so now.If anything, the Glazers past history show that they no you need the best coach for your team, and you leave them to do their job when they get them. I don't think it will be sink or swim for Anderson or Nani this season, cause that would imply that neither Scholes or Giggs will feature prominently this season, and that simply will not be the case. Both Anderson and Nani will be given time to adapt to Manchester, to United, to England and to the premier league - to see them as anything but long term buys is just wrong imo.

PHB

I think pressure will come from somewhere to throw Nani, Hargreaves, Tevez? and Anderson in at the deep end. If the sink or swim its up to them.

I think that's just stupid. Fergie has always had full power, even under the Glaziers. Furthermore, the only logic they would have for doing that is marketing, and first off, Hargreaves isn't exactly a marketable player, and Scholes and Giggs are still more marketable than Anderson and Nani.

Anderson and Nani will get about 15 prem appearances starting next season, with a good few more off the bench mostly when we are in front. If one of them plays really really well, he might work his way into the team, and of those two, I think Anderson has the best chance of that.

Hargreaves and hopefully Tevez are the huge additions to the team in terms of winning the PL, Anderson and Nani mean we won't be playing Richardson or Smith anymore as subs, which can only improve our last 20 minutes

If cech wasnt injured they would be champs imo.

If Saha hadn't gotten injured, they wouldn't have gotten a chance to catch up imo. We were ahead of them by the time the got their injuries, and they couldn't catch us. People might say it was because of their injuries, but when we got our injuries, and they were full strength, they still couldn't catch us. That wasn't to do with injuries, it was to do with not being able to hack the pressure of the chase, something they've never had to do before.

jank

Of course fergie has final decisions over the team, not the Glaziers. I presume that ye didnt read the summer transfer theard.

However if Gigs, Scholes and Ronaldo fail to deliver as they did last year then presure to start these other players will develop.

Anyway rumours around the City says that the Glazers want out soon but thats a discussion for another day.

If Saha hadn't gotten injured

When is Saha ever not injured?! Him, being injured wasnt exactly a surprise. He is on the way out anyway

PHB

When is Saha ever not injured?! Him, being injured wasnt exactly a surprise.

Wait, so injuries are either luck or aren't luck? Are you suggesting certain players are more injury prone than others?
Maybe the reason Chelsea had a huge amount of injuries wasn't to do with just plain old luck, it's to do with certain players being more injury prone than other players, in which case, surely the same situation is likely?

There used to be a time where people didn't consider not getting injuries lucky, they thought it was to do with being physically fit and utilising good squad rotation. Chelsea never did the latter when they were on top, played the same 11 as much as possible. Maybe that's why their players got injured.

People say stuff like, well if Ronaldo had gotten injured..... He didn't get injured, and that's not just due to luck.

marius

jank wrote:

However if Gigs, Scholes and Ronaldo fail to deliver as they did last year then presure to start these other players will develop.

You mean the Giggs Scholes and Ronaldo in the premiership team of the season?