Stopped over VRT

whippet

and from the same site this is the clincher, as the OP already said that he was studying in Derry while living with his aunt:

A person who is normally resident in the State but who lives outside the State primarily for the purpose of attending a school or university is regarded as a State resident.

and then this line, which to answer the OP orginal query ..

13. What must I do if challenged by a revenue officer or a garda?
You are required to stop your vehicle and allow it to be examined if requested by an Officer of the Revenue Commissioners or the Garda Siochana. You must co - operate in answering questions for the purpose of verifying your status and produce on request all documents relating to the bringing in, ownership and registration of the vehicle.

JHMEG

cormac_byrne wrote:

http://www.revenue.ie/index.htm?/leaflets/vrt2.htm

"The vehicle may not in any circumstances be driven by a State resident"

Which applies to "Any imported vehicle which is owned by or registered in the name of a non-resident person".

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the car hasn't been imported?

whippet

JHMEG wrote:

Which applies to "Any imported vehicle which is owned by or registered in the name of a non-resident person".

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the car hasn't been imported?

the quote in question relates to any car that enters the state on a temporary basis .. read the link before making assumption as to what it refers to !!

seamus

cormac_byrne wrote:

Also would I not be correct in presuming that a named driver on a policy can only drive the car(s) the policy specifically refers to.

I checked the Quinn Direct policy documentation online (slow Monday!), and it's surprisingly grey enough that it may just be possible.

Specifically it says that, "You, the policyholder" may drive any other vehicle. This would appear to mean that named drivers aren't covered.
However elsewhere in the document it implies that "You, the policyholder" refers to any person mentioned on the certificate of insurance - which I assume named drivers are.

It's grey. At best.

Our man in Havana

It would make for an interesting discussion in a court.

JHMEG

whippet wrote:

the quote in question relates to any car that enters the state on a temporary basis .. read the link before making assumption as to what it refers to !!

"If you bring a vehicle into Ireland from abroad you must register it and pay VRT by the end of the next working day following its arrival in the State."

And what if you're gone out of the state before the next working day. Eg arrive Friday evening, leave Sunday night (like a student, home for the weekend)?

cormac_byrne

JHMEG wrote:

"If you bring a vehicle into Ireland from abroad you must register it and pay VRT by the end of the next working day following its arrival in the State."

And what if you're gone out of the state before the next working day. Eg arrive Friday evening, leave Sunday night (like a student, home for the weekend)?

yes that's the rule for importing a car

as per http://www.revenue.ie/index.htm?/leaflets/vrt1.htm

unless you're just visiting in which case you obviously don't have to import the car (and export it on return to your home country!)

exempt as per http://www.revenue.ie/index.htm?/leaflets/vrt2.htm

seamus

JHMEG wrote:

And what if you're gone out of the state before the next working day. Eg arrive Friday evening, leave Sunday night (like a student, home for the weekend)?

I guess the kicker here is that you're either importing the vehicle, or the vehicle is here on a holiday. If you're importing it, you must pay the VRT (whether or not it's in the country on day 2). If it's just on a holiday, then as an Irish resident you're not permitted to drive it.

JHMEG

seamus wrote:

I guess the kicker here is that you're either importing the vehicle, or the vehicle is here on a holiday. If you're importing it, you must pay the VRT (whether or not it's in the country on day 2). If it's just on a holiday, then as an Irish resident you're not permitted to drive it.

Unless... there's a loop hole allowing you to drive in and drive out again in between working days, ie at evenings and weekends.

seamus

JHMEG wrote:

Unless... there's a loop hole allowing you to drive in and drive out again in between working days, ie at evenings and weekends.

Nope, there doesn't seem to be. The legislation doesn't require it to be a working day when you bring it in. It doesn't matter when you bring it, even if it's Christmas day. You're obliged to pay the VRT on the next working day. That is, the legislation doesn't say, "You have two working days to pay the VRT", it just states that on the nearest working day to the date of import, you must pay the VRT. The date of import is irrelevant.

OKenora

Unless... there's a loop hole allowing you to drive in and drive out again in between working days, ie at evenings and weekends.

there is no loophole, the second the car crosses the border it is imported. If it is a foreign resident in their foreign car on a holiday then it is a temporary import and not subject to VRT. If it is a state resident in a foreign car then they have no legal entitlement to drive the car (hire cars excepted) until they pay the VRT on it. Yes it sounds silly, yes it stops you even borrowing a m8's foreign car to get home but it IS the law.

Whether he leaves the country or not before the next working day is irrelevant, while the car is here he has no entitlement to drive it. It's simple and draconian like that to stop chancers trying to cheat VRT by "living" at a relatives address, an Aunt for example, in the North but actually being residents of the South for all other purposes.....mmmm.......thats sounds familiar.........

Our man in Havana

How is one supposed to divorce himself from this state, if one is always considered resident here even if living abroad?

Seth Brundle

If you are living legitamitely abroad then you will have documentation to prove that. You may still have an Irish passport, etc. but as your affairs are conducted in another jurisdiction there should be plenty of documentation to prove it (utility bills & bank statements, PAYE details, etc.)

kevinmcc

Well I got my insurance sorted this morning, i'm now the policy holder and it is registered to my northern address. Got my bank account details changed to my nortern address and HM Revenue & Customs documents all changed over. I will have to wait 6 months from now though before I can get a Northern Ireland licence I was told. I'm guessing this should now make me all legal

OKenora

You are not resident here if you are living abroad with personal and/or fiscal ties to the new country, simple isn't it.

The exception is when you are temporarily away from here and staying abroad for that time, but still maintain your personal affairs here. An example of this is a Student staying abroad with a relative, an Aunt say, while studying but maintaining his bank accounts, tax returns, insurance, driving licence at an Irish address........familiar again........the law states that he is still considered as resident. Doesn't have to be a student, it can be anyone away from the country for a fixed length of time on a contract or extended vacation. The distinguishing factor is that there are ties still in place to your home in Ireland (fiscal or personal) and your stay away has an expected fixed duration.

If you do not want to be classed as the "temporary abroad" class and want to change residency then you cut the ties with Ireland, get foreign insurance, foreign licence, foreign voting registration, foreign tax registration.

The reason we have these people "temporarily" abroad is to stop the system being abused, say to avoid VRT by a student who claims to "live" in the UK and wants to import his car back here.

OKenora

Sorry if we sound hard on you kevinmcc but the story you came here with, while probably caused accidentally, still looks like the oldest VRT scam in the book. Customs would have gone hard on this and would require documentary proof, the law states it is up to the person to show foreign residency not up to customs to prove Irish residency.

Basically if you are in Ireland you are considered Irish till you show otherwise, at least with regard to VRT.

I will have to wait 6 months from now though before I can get a Northern Ireland licence I was told

If you have been NI resident for 6 months already (see previous posts for this) then it's an over the counter service, go in, hand them fees, relevant documents and your Irish licence and they issue a GB one there and then..............there is actually no law saying you have to change it over immediately, an irish car licence is valid until you are 70 years of age or up to 3 years after becoming resident in NI whichever is first. If you are a student then that 3 year limit is waived and your licence is ok till you are 70 as long as you stay a student. Reasons for change are usually the reduced hassle with the mismatch of car registration and licence. it's 6 month wait also for foreign nationals arriving with provisional licences who need to sit the test. If you have a provisional, remember you can't drive a car un-supervised, by a full licence holder, in the north.

it's also oddly a 6 month wait for students who hold no licence at all before they can apply for a NI licence or test.

Our man in Havana

He should be safe enough now.

galwaytt

btw, fwiw, named drivers do not enjoy cover on cars not registered on the policy.

For instance, Dad has car in his name, and Son is a named driver. The DOV extension (driving other vehicles) has two limitations: it does not allow the named driver (Son) to drive other vehicles, and when exercising DOV, your cover is reduced to TPO only. So, if dad insures a Mini, and Dad gets a loan of a Scooby to test drive, and unfortunately tips into another car with it, the only thing covered is the damage to the other car. There is no cover for any damage to the Scooby. Your friend will be pissed

Furthermore, Son is not covered to drive the Scooby, either.

AFAIK, DOV only applies to vehicles registered in the State - so flying to London and getting the chance to drive your UK cousin's scooby..........isn't covered either.

And with regard to surrendering your licence, in the UK, you can only drive on a Non UK licence for a max of 12 months, at which time you either surrender your licence and get a UK one, or apply for a UK test.

And Yes, can hold multiple licences in different countries.

Phew, glad that's over...........:)

MrPudding

OKenora wrote:

S



If you have been NI resident for 6 months already (see previous posts for this) then it's an over the counter service, go in, hand them fees, relevant documents and your Irish licence and they issue a GB one there and then..............t

It is not that easy. He will have to provide, at the very least, proof that he is and has been resident in NI, bills and stuff.

Also, he may be required to provide photos that have been signed on the back by someone in authority. When I renewed my driving license I had to do this even though I had already held a NI license for 10 years. It all changed in 97.

MrP

ambro25

galwaytt wrote:

And with regard to surrendering your licence, in the UK, you can only drive on a Non UK licence for a max of 12 months, at which time you either surrender your licence and get a UK one, or apply for a UK test.

Incorrect. Same rules there as here: you can drive on your [whichever EU country's] driving license for as long as you want, driver license 'changeover' is at your discretion and not mandatory.

Confirmed to me time and again while I lived in the UK (10 years), and still on my FR license - and no intention to change it ever (no age expiry/renewal periods whatsoever )

OKenora

It all changed in 97.

You better tell DVLNI then, my m8 just changed his licence 2 weeks ago and it was an over the counter affair. We followed the details here... DVLNI site

Yes he will have to send in photos and live in NI, but this whole thread started with him saying he lives in NI. Point it thats it's not a 6 month wait if you live in NI, it is an "over the counter" (ok via post) straight swap.

kevinmcc

Well I think you'll find that it is not a straight swap. I was told by DVLNI today that I would need a 6 month old bank statement with my northern address or a 6 month old utility bill to be able to swap it.

MercMad

Firstly, and I am re-iterating some points made by others, if you are a resident of the South of Ireland it is illegal for you to drive a car that is registered outside of the state. There are exceptions to this whereby the car is a company car and the company is based outside of Ireland. This is a temporary situation only !

You are not legally allowed to drive you brother's friends mother's car while she is over on holidays, DESPITE what call you made to your insurers. You may well be insured somehow, but you are not legal !

You are also not allowed to have your insurance cover you for a car that is privately owned by someone else, hence insurance companies ask if you are the registered owner of the vehicle. There are exceptions obviously, whereby the car is a garage car and therefore the situation is temporary, and an end date has been given, or there is a lease/HP agreement between the registered owner and the keeper.

A situation of double indemnity could exist whereby somebodys relative/friend has the car over from the UK for example, and you have asked your insurance company for temporary cover on it. There is fine print here, which anyone legally contemplating this should look into before making assumptions. Dont forget Insurance Companies will always be inclined to take your money, but they can still refuse cover, due to small print, in the event of an accident.

In the case of the OP, quite simply, the car is registered to a garage in NI, so is there a written contract ? If not why not ? Is there ANY policy anywhere that states the reg number of this car and who's name is that policy under ?

I have a irish driving licence, never changed it as its valid north and south, my insurance is held in the south as I am a named driver on my dads policy so it works out cheaper, again I am covered north and south of the border

............this policy, held in the South is you Dad's policy right ? If so you do not have ANY cover to drive ANY other car apart from the one specifically shown on this policy ! Are you and your father driving around in two cars with this one policy ?? That alone is crazy, whatever about the other stuff !

Are you buying this car ? If not why are you driving it ?

If you change your licence to an NI one wont you have to prove you are an NI resident first ?

Is the OP's granny breaking the law also since she appears to be taking rent from him...............is she paying tax ??

kevinmcc

Just to clear this up I was a named driver on my
father's insurance policy and the car registered on the insurance policy was the northern reg vehicle.

kevinmcc

And what tax my aunt pays for taking rent off me clearly is a case for her, don't worry about her she can look after herself

OKenora

you can drive on your [whichever EU country's] driving license for as long as you want,

Not true in Northern Ireland, there's a limit of 3 years on a full licence and 5 years on a provisional.

On mainland UK the poster is correct though.

Kevinmcc, your orignal post was "i live in the north" but now your post is "i wait 6 months cos i don't live in the north". Ok so thats a paraphrase, but basically the gist, all your affairs were southern, thats why you are now waiting 6 months, you had no affairs in the North or ties there, which leads to the question of why buy a brand new Northern car and leave it registered to the garage ? A question still not answered.

JHMEG

kevinmcc wrote:

Well I got my insurance sorted this morning, i'm now the policy holder and it is registered to my northern address. Got my bank account details changed to my nortern address and HM Revenue & Customs documents all changed over. I will have to wait 6 months from now though before I can get a Northern Ireland licence I was told. I'm guessing this should now make me all legal

Cool. Now no one just have any slight cause for complaint. 5 pages of off topic-ness..

JHMEG

kevinmcc wrote:

Well I got my insurance sorted this morning, i'm now the policy holder and it is registered to my northern address. Got my bank account details changed to my nortern address and HM Revenue & Customs documents all changed over. I will have to wait 6 months from now though before I can get a Northern Ireland licence I was told. I'm guessing this should now make me all legal

Cool. Now no one should have any slight cause for complaint. 5 pages of off topic-ness..

mdebets

OKenora wrote:

Not true in Northern Ireland, there's a limit of 3 years on a full licence and 5 years on a provisional.

Wrong, you don't have to exchange your EU licence.

DVLNI wrote:

Residents
If you have a valid Community licence, this will authorise you to drive in this country for the periods set out below. Alternatively, you can apply to exchange your licence for a Northern Ireland one at any time.

Provided your licence remains valid you may drive in NI:

Ordinary Licence Holders
Until aged 70 or for 3 years after becoming resident whichever is the longer period.

OKenora

Apologies I misread it...

Until aged 70 or for 3 years after becoming resident whichever is the longer period.

I took as being 70 or 3 years whichever came first, it is of course being 70 or 3 years, whichever comes last.