Stopped over VRT

Churchy

OKenora wrote:

LOL Neil...the good old days

/me starts TFC now, for second time in 6 months....now that you reminded me

Hehe lo OKenora - remember me?

Interesting thread...............................

JHMEG

Churchy wrote:

Hehe lo OKenora - remember me?

Wtf? This is the 2nd time this has happened?

MrPudding

OKenora wrote:

You better tell DVLNI then, my m8 just changed his licence 2 weeks ago and it was an over the counter affair. We followed the details here... DVLNI site

Yes he will have to send in photos and live in NI, but this whole thread started with him saying he lives in NI. Point it thats it's not a 6 month wait if you live in NI, it is an "over the counter" (ok via post) straight swap.

I was living there for over 20 years and was just renewing a license I had held for 10. They can and will ask.

MrP

Del2005

kevinmcc wrote:

Well I got my insurance sorted this morning, i'm now the policy holder and it is registered to my northern address. Got my bank account details changed to my nortern address and HM Revenue & Customs documents all changed over. I will have to wait 6 months from now though before I can get a Northern Ireland licence I was told. I'm guessing this should now make me all legal

I'd still be wary of the customs man, for the next few months anyway. He's still entitled to take the car off you till you can prove your NI residency.

NBar

ambro25 wrote:

Incorrect. Same rules there as here: you can drive on your [whichever EU country's] driving license for as long as you want, driver license 'changeover' is at your discretion and not mandatory.

Confirmed to me time and again while I lived in the UK (10 years), and still on my FR license - and no intention to change it ever (no age expiry/renewal periods whatsoever )

Incorrect your non Irish licence expires after 12 months in another country so anybody driving here for over 12 months on a English licence has no licence so who will be first to try it in the courts cause I know of a few people who are going to court and they were shown the leglislation and now are bricking it and the insurance companies were informed also, I will try and get it and post it here tomorrow

Alun

NBar wrote:

Incorrect your non Irish licence expires after 12 months in another country so anybody driving here for over 12 months on a English licence has no licence so who will be first to try it in the courts cause I know of a few people who are going to court and they were shown the leglislation and now are bricking it and the insurance companies were informed also, I will try and get it and post it here tomorrow

http://www.transport.ie/roads/licensing/licence/index.asp?lang=ENG&loc=1836#Exchange_Driving_Licence

It's been like this (i.e. mutual recognition of EU driving licences throughout the EU) for years.

NBar

Alun wrote:

http://www.transport.ie/roads/licensing/licence/index.asp?lang=ENG&loc=1836#Exchange_Driving_Licence

It's been like this (i.e. mutual recognition of EU driving licences throughout the EU) for years.

Thats what I thought until I was shown this other leglisation when I get my hands on it I will post it here

R.O.R

I think the problem lies with the address on the licence. You can't hold a UK licence with an ROI address, thus making it illegal if you are living full time in ROI (or vice versa).

ambro25

There's no address on the standard driving license of many EU countries. FR or DE (old pinks), for instance. Only full name, DOB, photo, serial, date passed and for which categories held.

R.O.R wrote:

You can't hold a UK licence with an ROI address

I don't really know why that would be. Linky?

If there's any issue, I imagine that it might be tied to the validity clause (ref. the link posted by Alun): if at the time of renewing the UK license, the holder has an IE address, then that might result in a problem. Although not necessarily, mind - for instance, it's routine to issue or amend passports of one's home country (say a UK passport) with one's main residence address in another country (say in Dublin, IE).

NBar, do please post links for that "new legislation", I'm very curious about it (and can we please have it punctuated, as well )

Our man in Havana

AFAIK UK licences are valid until you are 70. Is that not still the case?

ambro25

Dunno. But if that's the case, then that -

I think the problem lies with the address on the licence. You can't hold a UK licence with an ROI address, thus making it illegal if you are living full time in ROI (or vice versa).

doesn't hold water.

MrPudding

ambro25 wrote:

I don't really know why that would be. Linky?

If there's any issue, I imagine that it might be tied to the validity clause (ref. the link posted by Alun): if at the time of renewing the UK license, the holder has an IE address, then that might result in a problem. Although not necessarily, mind - for instance, it's routine to issue or amend passports of one's home country (say a UK passport) with one's main residence address in another country (say in Dublin, IE).

You have to be resident in NI to get or renew a NI licence. I thought the link had already been posted, here you go anyway:

http://www.dvlni.gov.uk/drivers/foreign_apply_prov.htm

http://www.dvlni.gov.uk/drivers/exchange_licence.htm

DVLNI wrote:

you must be normally resident in Northern Ireland and have a permanent address here;

MrP

R.O.R

Old style UK paper Licence has address home address details on. Not sure on the new style as I haven't changed over - mainly as I'm living in ROI and can't change my licence (and before anyone starts - I don't use it to avoid speeding fines, never recieved one either side of the water).

New UK ID licences are valid 10 years AFAIK, old style paper ones are valid until 70 (so still another 39 years to go until I have to renew).

ambro25

MrPudding wrote:

You have to be resident in NI to get or renew a NI licence. (...)

Your first link is when applying for a driving test (and from which your quote is taken).

Your second link is when applying to exchange the license for a local (NI) one (so, a license from wherever - mandatory for some countries (US, AU, NZ etc.) and not for other (EC)).

In both cases yes, you have to be resident, so that's the "to get" clause above. Not seen anything about when renewing, though: I still don't see anything about precluding having a UK license with an ROI address on it as a result of an update (which is the portion of my post, which you have quoted).

[Note: I'm not being difficult for the sake of it , I'm just curious about the eventuality - which I imagine must be frequent]

Alun

My Dutch licence also has an address on it, and my chances of getting it changed to an Irish address are, knowing the way the Dutch authorities work, close to zero. That doesn't make it invalid as a driving licence though, any more than forgetting to update your address here on an Irish licence would do, otherwise the whole raison d'etre of the mutual recognition of EU licences wouldn't make any sense.

MrPudding

A couple of point from a couple of posts.

First of all NI & UK licenses both have your address on them.

The UK / NI driving license regime is actually different in some respects, hence you have the DVLI for mainland UK and DVLI NI for NI. A couple of examples, the penalty points between the two don’t work properly. I am not sure of the details but there is something funky. Also, NI does not recognise Direct Access Test for motorbikes. So as you can see there are differences.

Either way, someone wanting to exchange a RoI licence for either a NI or mainland UK licence will have to prove they are resident in the relative jurisdiction.

MrP

NBar

ambro25 wrote:

There's no address on the standard driving license of many EU countries. FR or DE (old pinks), for instance. Only full name, DOB, photo, serial, date passed and for which categories held.



I don't really know why that would be. Linky?

If there's any issue, I imagine that it might be tied to the validity clause (ref. the link posted by Alun): if at the time of renewing the UK license, the holder has an IE address, then that might result in a problem. Although not necessarily, mind - for instance, it's routine to issue or amend passports of one's home country (say a UK passport) with one's main residence address in another country (say in Dublin, IE).

NBar, do please post links for that "new legislation", I'm very curious about it (and can we please have it punctuated, as well )

Here is what I found

European Communities (Licensing of Drivers) Regulations,

1984 (S.I 234 of 1984)

These Regulations which came into force on the 1st day of October, 1984 bring into operation the provisions of Article 8 of Directive 80/1263/EEC (driver licensing). This article provides that, if the holder of a valid national driving licence issued by a Member State takes up normal residence in another Member State, his/her licence shall remain valid for up to a maximum of one year following the taking up of residence.



Hope this helps

Our man in Havana

NBar wrote:

Here is what I found

European Communities (Licensing of Drivers) Regulations,

1984 (S.I 234 of 1984)

These Regulations which came into force on the 1st day of October, 1984 bring into operation the provisions of Article 8 of Directive 80/1263/EEC (driver licensing). This article provides that, if the holder of a valid national driving licence issued by a Member State takes up normal residence in another Member State, his/her licence shall remain valid for up to a maximum of one year following the taking up of residence.



Hope this helps

I wonder is there a later one that supercedes it?
If not that will mess up all those living here and keeping their UK/other EU licences to avoid points.

NBar

And before anybody thinks otherwise all it takes is a check with the revenue to see a persons status

OKenora

Your quoting of European Communities (Licensing of Drivers) Regulations, 1984 (S.I 234 of 1984) is good, except it was revoked on 6th November 1999

Entry in Irish statutes revoking it

It was replaced with this

This is dealt with in sections 4:8 (a), 4:8 (b) and 4:9
Section 4:8 (a) deals with people moving to Ireland from within the EEA...

(8) (a) Subject to the provisions of paragraph (c) of this sub-article, a person who holds a driving licence issued by the competent authority of a Member State, other than Ireland, of the European Communities or of the European Economic Area may drive in a public place any vehicle in a category in respect of which the licence has been granted for the period for which such licence has effect.

Which is what we were looking for, the 1 year rule is from the next bit...
Section 4:8 (b) deals with people moving to Ireland and taking up residence from outside the EEA and states....

(b) Subject to the provisions of paragraph (a) and (c) of this sub-article, upon taking up normal residence in the State, a person who holds a recognised driving licence issued by a competent authority of a State other than a Member State of the European Communities or of the European Economic Area may drive in a public place any vehicle which such person is licensed by such licence to drive until the expiry of—

(i) the period for which such licence has effect, or

(ii) one year from the date of taking up such residence,

whichever first occurs.

I have added the bold to the bit that makes the big difference.

ambro25

ambro25 wrote:

(14:55) Your second link is when applying to exchange the license for a local (NI) one (so, a license from wherever - mandatory for some countries (US, AU, NZ etc.) and not for other (EC)).

Thx for taking up the time to post/correct before me, Okenora.

Being in that exact postion (other EU member license than state of residence) for the last 14 years or so (in different 4 countries), and given as I've had at least 5 run-ins with "relevant persons" over time, and having researched the thing to death at some stage - I thought as much

Alun

Exactly, as I thought. I'm surprised it's as late as 1999 though, since the EU directive that abolished the requirement to exchange the licence after 1 year came into force in July 1996, and I'm sure other EU countries embodied it into their regulations earlier than 1999.

See http://ec.europa.eu/transport/home/drivinglicence/principles/002_en.htm

Anyway, NBar, that rather puts the people you were referring to who were 'bricking it' on safe ground, doesn't it? So what's the story regarding them? They can't exactly be brought to court for breaking a law that was revoked 8 years ago, can they? Or is it yet another case of our guardians of the law not knowing the law themselves, as both Ambro25 and myself have experienced first hand.

macplaxton

An EU licence is valid until expiry.

A UK licence has a notice about having the correct address on your licence and fines of up to a £1000. This only applies in the UK. The UK police can get quite stroppy about it, but if you are moving abroad "It will not be a requirement to notify DVLA of a change of address when moving to live abroad."

So with EU mutual recognition of driver licences, the only thing to worry about with licences is their expiry date. Although your entitlements for cars/motorcycles generally runs until your 70th birthday, if you have a photocard licence, it will need renewing every 10 years. A paper licence is still valid until it's expiry date, but if it was issued pre-1990 confuses authorities abroad as all the vehicle categories are different.

R.O.R

macplaxton wrote:

An EU licence is valid until expiry.

A UK licence has a notice about having the correct address on your licence and fines of up to a £1000. This only applies in the UK. The UK police can get quite stroppy about it, but if you are moving abroad "It will not be a requirement to notify DVLA of a change of address when moving to live abroad."

Quite glad to hear that, wonder if it makes any difference that my licence still has the address that my folks moved out of over 10 years ago on? Can't see it making any difference.

galwaytt

Indeed, the rule did obviously change......I had to surrender my ROI one when I was in UK a long time ago.

Anyway, I emailed DVLA Monday, and got this reply yesterday - this is for mainland UK.

"Thank you for your email.

On return to GB as a permanent resident you may continue to drive using a EC/EEA driving licence as long as it remains valid up until the day preceding your 70th birthday or for 3 years after becoming resident here which ever is the longer period.

However, if you wish to exchange your licence, please ask at your main Post Office® for a D1 application and return the form to DVLA with your licence and the relevant enclosures. A fee of £45.00. is required. However, providing the individual previously held a GB licence. a fee is not required.

The EC/EEA licence will be returned to the Licensing Authorities from where it was issued.

Important Note: If your EC/EEA licence was issued in exchange for one from another country, this may be valid for driving in GB for only 12 months and you may not be able to exchange it for the GB equivalent.

Holders of community licences with vocational entitlements who live in GB must, by law register their details within DVLA.

Drivers of small vehicle may register also, if they wish. Drivers who register will receive their licence back together with a UK counterpart licence. This would enable them to take advantage of the fixed penalty system for road traffic offences instead of having to go to court.

Please see D100 information leaflet available from any main Post Office® for further information. "

Note the comment about 'taking advantage of fixed penalty system'........or, no UK licence, no points, only court appearances......

whippet

galwaytt wrote:

Note the comment about 'taking advantage of fixed penalty system'........or, no UK licence, no points, only court appearances......

my wife has has experience of that !!! on an Irish license in the UK for a few years in a UK reg car, first points notice .. back came the cheque and licence with a note saying they couldn't do anything with it .. with the second offence came the summons!!!

NBar

The only thing is a non Irish resident driving on a non Irish licence risks geting arrested for is a motoring offence if the Garda believes the person will evade justice and that can included speeding (can be construed as dangerous driving) etc so they can be arrested and charged and brought to court, not having your correct address details is also an offence

ambro25

Based on 1st-hand experience, and provided the offense is minor and no aggro is dished to the Officer (e.g. no seat belt, or 105 instead of 100 and not contesting + "Yes Sir, 3 bags full"-ing ), a foreign-license holder is unlikely to get a fine/court summons in the UK or IE - too much paperwork/red tape involved for the Officer. Unless the Officer is of the high horse-mounted variety

NOTE to readers: mindful of the very upstanding and vociferous miss-goody-2-shoes frequent on these here Motors Boards, this is not to be construed as a trolling post, nor as a rule. Just a rule of thumb, to which of course there will be exceptions (such as whippet's Missus). Foreign driving licenses are certainly not the sure-fire 'get out of jail' cards every other person makes them out to be.

Del2005

ambro25 wrote:

Based on 1st-hand experience, and provided the offense is minor and no aggro is dished to the Officer (e.g. no seat belt, or 105 instead of 100 and not contesting + "Yes Sir, 3 bags full"-ing ), a foreign-license holder is unlikely to get a fine/court summons in the UK or IE - too much paperwork/red tape involved for the Officer. Unless the Officer is of the high horse-mounted variety

The reason for this is most police use standardized forms and a foreign licence doesn't match this. It's like getting done in the US for speeding and handing over the A5 piece of Pink, they've no idea how to put the details down on their forms. And before anyone asks it wasn't me.

OKenora

The law again is not as simple as the statute book seems to make it. There is also legislation in most European countries for renewing your licence every 10 years and also that your licence is not valid if the address details are incorrect.

So if you move to Ireland on a UK licence it is valid here as long as it remains valid.....which technically is only up to the day you moved to Ireland as your address is now wrong. When you go to renew at 10 years if you get that far you will not by law (though a lot of people do it) be able to renew it as you do not have a valid address in the UK anymore, most people simply ignore this and give their old address which is actually incorrect and again illegal.

AFAIK it is also illegal to drive on a licence that shows an incorrect address for you though this is usually only a slap on the wrist offence. Eithe that or the offence is not informing the DVLA/DVLNI of a change of address, either way it's an offence.