Question about gardai

rasoul

Hi,

I was wondering if maybe one of you could answer my query, If you are stopped by a garda, and he asks you your name and address , do you have to give it to them ? Or can you refuse ?

Many Thanks.

445279.ie

Give it to them. What have you got to hide? :rolleyes:

md99

you're avoiding answering the OPs question.

CRUMDUB12

You have to give name and address , believe it came in under section 7, and to a previous poster, the OP has nothing to hide, was just enquiring where he stood legally.

Tom Young

Section 7 of which act?

2005 Garda Siochana Act?

I'd have automatically said obstruction under section 19 of the 1994 CJ (Public Order) Act covers this.

Victor

I think its actually under the Offences Against the State Act.

mikemac

Could you give your name and address in Irish even if you didn't live in the Gaelteacht area or even use the Irish versions on a day to day basis?

Victor

micmclo wrote:

Could you give your name and address in Irish even if you didn't live in the Gaelteacht area or even use the Irish versions on a day to day basis?

You only have one name.

I'm sure you could, but make sure you know it, how to spell it and answer any follow-up questions as gaeilge.

Mick86

Tom Young wrote:

Section 7 of which act?

2005 Garda Siochana Act?

Section 7 of the Garda Siochana Act 2005 deals with the Function of Garda Síochána.

Tom Young wrote:

I'd have automatically said obstruction under section 19 of the 1994 CJ (Public Order) Act covers this.

I think it would be stretching it a bit to term refusing to give your name and address as obstruction under the 1994 act.

19. —(1) Any person who—

( a ) assaults a peace officer acting in the execution of the peace officer's duty, knowing that he is, or being reckless as to whether he is, a peace officer acting in the execution of his duty, or

( b ) assaults any other person acting in the aid of a peace officer, or

( c ) assaults any other person with intent to resist or prevent the lawful apprehension or detention of himself or any other person for any offence,

shall be guilty of an offence.

(2) A person guilty of an offence under subsection (1) shall be liable—

( a ) having elected for summary disposal of the offence, on summary conviction, to a fine not exceeding £1,000 or to imprisonment for a term not exceeding 12 months, or to both,

( b ) on conviction on indictment, to a fine or to imprisonment for a term not exceeding 5 years or to both.

(3) Any person who resists or wilfully obstructs a peace officer acting in the execution of his duty or a person assisting a peace officer in the execution of his duty, knowing that he is or being reckless as to whether he is, a peace officer acting in the execution of his duty, shall be guilty of an offence.

(4) A person guilty of an offence under subsection (3) shall be liable on summary conviction to a fine not exceeding £500 or to imprisonment for a term not exceeding 6 months or to both.

(5) The provisions of this section are in addition to and not in substitution of any provision in any other enactment relating to assault or obstruction of a peace officer.

(6) In this section—

"peace officer" means a member of the Garda Síochána, a prison officer or a member of the Defence Forces;

Victor wrote:

I think its actually under the Offences Against the State Act.

A Garda may demand your name and address if you have been detained for an offence outlined in the Offences against the state act.

30. —(1) A member of the Gárda Síochána (if he is not in uniform on production of 'his identification card if demanded) may without warrant stop, search, interrogate, and arrest any person, or do any one or more of those things in respect of any person, whom he suspects of having committed or being about to commit or being or having been concerned in the commission of an offence under any section or sub-section of this Act ............

5) A member of the Gárda Síochána may do all or any of the following things in respect of a person detained under this section, that is to say:—

( a ) demand of such person his name and address;.....

My personal opinion is that there is no legal obligation on anyone to answer any question of a Garda. That said all law abiding citizens have a moral obligation to cooperate with and assist the Gardai at all times.

Tom Young

Thanks for clarifying that it was the OAS Act referenced above. I had a copy of the Garda Siochana Act out and Section 7 was glaring at me. Doing a review of the reserve and powers etc.

Amazingly there is no institution that is an Garda Siochana. Couple of interesting papers on this, and also on forming opinions in relation to arrest powers.

I also have a bit of a hang-up over Section 7. 2006, extending powers of search and seizure.
9 on photographic Evidence and 14 on Forensic samples.

So yeah.

Mick86

Tom Young wrote:

Amazingly there is no institution that is an Garda Siochana..

Doesn't the 2005 Act sort that one out?

rasoul

Thanks lads, just that I was stopped recently and was asked my name and address, by two folks with no ID, i refused and was taken down to the station.. I have been reading up on it, and i am not sure if I have to give my name and address if ever stopped again... they claimed it was for the misuse of drugs act... total bull**** i was walking to work...reading this

http://www.indymedia.ie/article/82108

I am still not sure if the Garda was right in saying I HAVE to give my name and address if stopped by a garda.. i am sitll not sure

Tom Young

Misuse of Drugs Act is quite a powerful act alright. Did they arrest you?

rasoul

Tom Young wrote:

Misuse of Drugs Act is quite a powerful act alright. Did they arrest you?

Yes they put me in handcuffs and took me to the garda station , because i wouldnt give them my name and address, I explained they showed me no ID, they could have been anyone...Under this act , do you have to give your name and address to the gardai on the street... ? They reckon you do, but I dont believe them but cant find proof on the net

Our man in Havana

Were these plain clothes gardai? If so, and they fail to produce ID when demanded then you are not obliged to comply with their directions.

dermot_sheehan

The only power is s. 25(2) where a guard has reasonable suspicion that you have committed an offence other then possession with intent to supply, he can arrest you if he's uncertain as to your identity.

So if the guards had suspicion you had canabis on you for example, I can't see any other power to demand your name and address.

Also regarding guards and ID, they generally don't have to show your their ID to exercise various statutory powers when they are in uniform.

rasoul

Yes two plain clothes gardai, I need to know if I was right or they were right, Do you have to give your name and address on the street under this act ?

Our man in Havana

As they were plain clothes gardai you don't have to do anything at all unless they show you their official ID. How can you be sure they were real gardai at all?

dermot_sheehan

It looks like no unless they had "reasonable suspicion" you were guikty of an offence.
As a practical matter you should have been told what you were being arrested for and it would have been said to the custody sergent at the station, did they quote any section?

rasoul

thanks lads, section three , i think

dermot_sheehan

You were arrested since they had a reasonable suspicion you were in possession of a controlled drug. Section 3 misuse of drugs act deals with simple possession where there is not intent to supply.

PeakOutput

can the gardai search you for id after you gave them a name and address?

rasoul

Thanks Gabhain, so in a nutshell, Do you have to give your name and address to Gardai on the street under this section?

PeakOutput

rasoul wrote:

Thanks Gabhain, so in a nutshell, Do you have to give your name and address to Gardai on the street under this section?

from my reading of it it appears that if you know they are a garda ie they are in uniform or have id, and they suspect you of one of the offences in the act(they can obviously say they suspect anyone of it) then yes you are obliged to give your name

rasoul

Ok thanks Peak,

Trojan911

rasoul wrote:

Hi,

I was wondering if maybe one of you could answer my query, If you are stopped by a garda, and he asks you your name and address , do you have to give it to them ? Or can you refuse ?

Many Thanks.

Hi Rasoul,

As far as I'm aware here you do not have to give any details to Gardaí unless they are stopping you for a specific reason. If they are, then they must identify themselves using valid Garda ID (if in plain clothes) and inform you of why they are stopping you and give reasonable grounds for the said stop and search.

If you are approached in the street by a garda, stopped and questioned without the above mentioned, then you have the right to carry on your business and refuse all details.

TJ911...

rasoul

Trojan911 wrote:

Hi Rasoul,

As far as I'm aware here you do not have to give any details to Gardaí unless they are stopping you for a specific reason. If they are, then they must identify themselves using valid Garda ID (if in plain clothes) and inform you of why they are stopping you and give reasonable grounds for the said stop and search.

If you are approached in the street by a garda, stopped and questioned without the above mentioned, then you have the right to carry on your business and refuse all details.

TJ911...

Thank you trojan,

I was just very annoyed about the ordeal,taken away in handcuffs because i wouldnt give two strangers my name and address ,

Trojan911

rasoul wrote:

Thank you trojan,

I was just very annoyed about the ordeal,taken away in handcuffs because i wouldnt give two strangers my name and address ,

That's interesting.

Why were you handcuffed?

Were you offering resistance?

Can I assume that you were not resisting and both officers were male?

Therefore would handcuffing you be justified?

Is there grounds for an assault by the officers for handcuffing you?

TJ911...

rasoul

Trojan911 wrote:

That's interesting.

Why were you handcuffed?

Were you offering resistance?

Can I assume that you were not resisting and both officers were male?

Therefore would handcuffing you be justified?

Is there grounds for an assault by the officers for handcuffing you?

TJ911...

Both Male early 20's , I offered no resistance was in shirt and tie on way to work , only when handcuffs came out I offered my name and address, too late I was told.

Our man in Havana

You should make a complaint to the garda ombudsman. The arrest might be unlawful resulting in unlawful detention.

johnnyskeleton

If a garda says that he is going to arrest someone, he must point to a specific power of arrest in addition to the offence for which you are suspected of committing/have committed. Saying I am arresting you under s3 of the Misuse of Drugs Act is not enough. However, the reality is that not co-operating with the gardai is a dangerous game - in the odd case (Shortt) a citizen will be compensated because of illegal garda interference. However, in those cases the person's life may be ruined long before court. Bond007 makes a good point, although it is yet to be seen how effective the Garda Ombudsman will be.

Tom Young

JS: Does the Shortt case finally give weight to the principle of exemplary damages outlined by Lord Devlin in Rookes Barnard, but which has (up to Shortt )been skirted around. This something I have been trying to figure out for a while (days) now. McIntyre v. Lewis is of course somewhat different.

kopparberg

i would say tha gardai arrested/detained you for a drug search section 23 as no power of arrest for section 3.

dermot_sheehan

kopparberg wrote:

i would say tha gardai arrested/detained you for a drug search section 23 as no power of arrest for section 3.

There is under s. 25 if the person can not satisfy his identitfy to the gardai which is what appeared to have happened in this case.

There is also a power under s. 4 of the criminal law act 1997 if the drug suspected of illegal posession of his other then canabis since the potential penalty is more then 5 years.