Staging a protest about this Dublin dog ban

raptor_strife

It seems to me that there is large discontent about this dog ban by Dublin City Council. I've only talked to a handful of people who support it, but seen dozens of people opposing it.

The council are pushing to have this pushed nationwide, so this could affect everyone soon. I think that dog owners and people in opposition of this violation of our rights, from Dublin and its surrounding areas, need to stage some sort or protest in the city. Am I crazy thinking that such a protest might be effective? I don't think the council realise how many people are actually opposed to this, and having a peaceful protest in the city might help to ensure that this doesn't happen nationwide.


Just to clarify, I'm not trying to get into a discussion about the dog ban, there are other places for that.. I want to see if people feel some kind of protest would be worthwhile, or if it's completely unwarranted

Mick86

raptor_strife wrote:

It seems to me that there is large discontent about this dog ban by Dublin City Council. I've only talked to a handful of people who support it, but seen dozens of people opposing it.

The dog ban is like a lot of local authority and government legislation. Unenforcable. Why not just ignore it.

bonkey

raptor_strife wrote:

Am I crazy thinking that such a protest might be effective?

Yes.

Just to clarify, I'm not trying to get into a discussion about the dog ban, there are other places for that..

Funny...I would have said this is exactly the place for it. Surely if you want to organise a protest, you should be willing to discuss why you think one is needed. This isn't a protest-organisation board, after all.

I want to see if people feel some kind of protest would be worthwhile, or if it's completely unwarranted

It may be warranted, but I doubt its worthwhile.

oscarBravo

What dog ban?

Zombrex

oscarBravo wrote:

What dog ban?

11 breeds of dogs that have been classified as "dangerous", including Rottweilers and German Shepards (Alsatians), have been effectively banned from Dublin Corp. housing, in that it you are now not allowed to have one in either a Dub Corp house or flat.

While it is a bit excessive to call this a "Dublin ban" (as far as I know it only applies to Dublin Corp housing), it will effect a lot of dogs and has been condemned by the DSPCA as they fear that hundreds of dogs will be killed to comply with the order.

MoominPapa

Does the council often come out with this sort of patronising/fascistic crap? Unless there is a nationwide ban legislated by central govenment this is singling out one section of society and potentially criminalising them while their nextdoor neighbours (who may have bought their house off the council) can own as many of the feckers as they like. I couldn't care less about dangerous breeds being banned as long as they are banned for all. What next? Council tenant curfew anyone?

bonkey

MoominPapa wrote:

this is singling out one section of society and potentially criminalising them while their nextdoor neighbours (who may have bought their house off the council) can own as many of the feckers as they like.

My house, My Rules.

Not my house...not my rules.

Spot the difference? Its no more victimisation any more than landlords saying "no pets" is.

While I disagree with the ban, this cry of oppression isn't a good reason to do so as it argues an indefensible point. The council owns the property - they have every right to set whatever rules they want about its use as long as those rules don't contravene the law in terms of discrimination.

Colour, religion, age, gender...that sort of thing is explicitly banned as unfair discrimination. Ownership of pets? Nope.

MoominPapa

I am a council tenant I cannot own a pitbull
I buy my house off the council now I can own a pitbull
Council Tenant=untrustworthy
House owner/renting private accommodation=trustworthy
This situation seems fair to you?

stipey

Am I crazy thinking that such a protest might be effective?

Maybe if everybody brought their dogs with them.

The the desk monkeys in DCC who passed said law would be too petrified to leave their office. Sooner or later they will need food and will be forced to repeal the law to bring and end to your protest

Sure some might be eaten as their colleagues turn to canabilism when they get too hungry... but it just might work.


Seriously though go for it. Nothing ventured, nothing gained.

Jackie laughlin

The problem with any legislation, rule or ban which refers to breeds is that it can only affect pedigree/purebred/IKC registered dogs.

It is plain daft to talk of dogs as if they were all the same. Each breed has been man made for a purpose. Working gundogs are not active, playful, friendly and gentle by accident. They were bred that way so that they could work enthusiastically for hours in close proximity to people and other dogs and so that they would not flitter the pheasants etc. Other breeds are bred to attack. The latter should not be available to the average person as they are genetically disposed to being dangerous. However, such a ban could apply only to a purebred dog.

The rule falls apart when faced by, say, a terrier/rottweiller cross or cross that again with, say, a pit bull. Mongrels defy the possibility of rules. I take it there is no support for an outright ban on mongrels!

silverharp

Their main target were flat complexes, where lets be honest anyone owing a pitbull is very likely using the dog to intimidate people. They are planning to be sensible about enforcement, so an old lady with a 10 year old German Shepherd would not be effected. A lot of private apartments don't allow pets, so don't see the problem.

Gone West

Jackie laughlin wrote:

However, such a ban could apply only to a purebred dog.

This is true to some extent, but in corpo housing, their rules (note not laws) are flexible and easily enforcable. Its not like its been written into the constitution.

And yes, a protest is always worthwhile if theres a chance it will get anything changed.

Hagar

stipey wrote:

Maybe if everybody brought their dogs with them.

I would advise against that.

A large crowd of people and a large crowd of dogs, some of them are going to get excited, the dogs, not the people, and start barking or fighting. These are the ones that will appear on the RTE News that evening, barking Alsatians and Rottweilers straining at the leash, being held back by their owners. If someone gets bitten and it's shown happening on TV...

It won't do your cause any good.

jmayo

Wicknight wrote:

11 breeds of dogs that have been classified as "dangerous", including Rottweilers and German Shepards (Alsatians), have been effectively banned from Dublin Corp. housing, in that it you are now not allowed to have one in either a Dub Corp house or flat.

While it is a bit excessive to call this a "Dublin ban" (as far as I know it only applies to Dublin Corp housing), it will effect a lot of dogs and has been condemned by the DSPCA as they fear that hundreds of dogs will be killed to comply with the order.

Does anybody not think that it is a bit much to have a large dog kept in a flat in the first place?
Alsatians were originally bred as herding dogs, hence it other name German Shepherd.
So they are used to open spaces not 50 to 100 sq feet, up ten flights of stairs. Rothweilers also have a herding background and yet another dog that needs space.

Surely it is upto the property owners (i.e. Dublin City Council) what types of animals are allowed be kept on their property.
Actually the use of the word animal could also refer to some of the two legged variety.
If you are renting from private landlords there are usually stipulations about keeping pets so why can't Dublin Council not does so as well.

fly_agaric

oscarBravo wrote:

What dog ban?

...I sense a move to the Dublin City forum

MoominPapa wrote:

(non-council tenants)...can own as many of the feckers as they like

True but unless they happen to have their own private park/grounds etc I think they will not be able to legally walk these dogs anywhere in the DCC area (streets, parks, playing pitches etc etc etc).
Am I wrong about this?

stipey

Hagar wrote:

I would advise against that.

A large crowd of people and a large crowd of dogs, some of them are going to get excited, the dogs, not the people, and start barking or fighting. These are the ones that will appear on the RTE News that evening, barking Alsatians and Rottweilers straining at the leash, being held back by their owners. If someone gets bitten and it's shown happening on TV...

It won't do your cause any good.

Apologies for any misunderstanding Hagar, I couldn't find the tongue in cheek smilie.. although I thought that the content of my original post would have been sufficient to convey this!

Binomate

Anyone who keeps a dog of any kind in a flat or an apartment doesn't deserve to have a dog imo. Bring on the ban.

fly_agaric

fly_agaric wrote:

...I sense a move to the Dublin City forum

Your crystal ball truly is amazing.

Hagar

@ Stipey, that's what I thought. I just used the quote as an intro to a "don't bring your dog" post.

BendiBus

jmayo wrote:

Does anybody not think that it is a bit much to have a large dog kept in a flat in the first place?
Alsatians were originally bred as herding dogs, hence it other name German Shepherd.
So they are used to open spaces not 50 to 100 sq feet, up ten flights of stairs. Rothweilers also have a herding background and yet another dog that needs space.

Exactly! Anyone who keeps a Rottweiller, a Shepherd or any other large dog in a flat shouldn't be allowed own a dog.

Degsy

Houses and apartments are meant for people not dogs,dogs require space and excercise and has allready been pointed out,some breeds are made for fighting,nothing else.To my mind the people who this law will affect the most are the tracksuit-wearing "hardmen" who use dangerous dogs as an extension of thier machismo.

Trinity

Its the dogs roaming the streets and that are allowed out without a leash that are causing the problem. And also how the dogs are reared. Its a silly rule they can never enforce, what are they gonna do knock on peoples doors?

There are plenty of responsible pet owners that live in council housing. Dogs shouldnt be in flats. I moved from my apartment to a more expensive house when i decided to keep my foster pup that i was only supposed to have a few days. I knew that was the choice i had to make.

biko

All fighting dogs should be banned nationwide, bullterrier, doberman et cetera.
They are only used by scum to terrorise each other and intimidate civilians.
Alsations should be allowed to be used by the elderly to protect themselves from above mentioned individuals.

Degsy

Trinity1 wrote:

Its a silly rule they can never enforce, what are they gonna do knock on peoples doors?

Thats exactly what they're gonna do..its not like dog owners know how to stop the bleeding things from barking.There's such a thing as Dog wardens and hopefully they'll be out in force once this thing kicks in.They should also get rid of dogs who're kept out in back gardens for years at a stretch,howling,barking and generally making lives miserable for anybody within hearing distance.

Trinity

Degsy wrote:

Thats exactly what they're gonna do..its not like dog owners know how to stop the bleeding things from barking.There's such a thing as Dog wardens and hopefully they'll be out in force once this thing kicks in.They should also get rid of dogs who're kept out in back gardens for years at a stretch,howling,barking and generally making lives miserable for anybody within hearing distance.

I didnt want to mention dog wardens but seeing as you bring it up! I'm looking out my mothers window and i can see 3 dogs. Not fighting breeds mind you, but any dog is capable of doing damage. One of them is huge!! My sister is terrified of him.

I've yet to see a dog warden in this estate.

Any breed of dog can be reported if barking, neglected, left in gardens not just fighting breeds.

These dogs have been free to roam the estate for a few years. You see the yobbos walking round with their pitbulls, its the ones that let them off the leash with the kids out playing that frightens me more than the ones on a tight lease or harness.

DOnt get me wrong i dont approve of the way these dogs are bred for the purpose in which the scum use them. But as someone said German Shepherds are a much loved breed that lots of people keep, particularly old people. And they shouldnt be punished cos of the scumbags.

Degsy

Trinity1 wrote:

I didnt want to mention dog wardens but seeing as you bring it up! I'm looking out my mothers window and i can see 3 dogs. Not fighting breeds mind you, but any dog is capable of doing damage. One of them is huge!! My sister is terrified of him.

I've yet to see a dog warden in this estate.

Any breed of dog can be reported if barking, neglected, left in gardens not just fighting breeds.

These dogs have been free to roam the estate for a few years. You see the yobbos walking round with their pitbulls, its the ones that let them off the leash with the kids out playing that frightens me more than the ones on a tight lease or harness.

DOnt get me wrong i dont approve of the way these dogs are bred for the purpose in which the scum use them. But as someone said German Shepherds are a much loved breed that lots of people keep, particularly old people. And they shouldnt be punished cos of the scumbags.

I really dont think Alsations are a much loved breed kept primarily by old people.They're a herding dog originaly but nowadays are more popular as police dogs or guard dogs..they're also responsible for a fair few attacks on people.The idea of little old ladies keeping alsations for company is quite frankly ridiculous.

deaddonkey

Degsy wrote:

I really dont think Alsations are a much loved breed kept primarily by old people.They're a herding dog originaly but nowadays are more popular as police dogs or guard dogs..they're also responsible for a fair few attacks on people.The idea of little old ladies keeping alsations for company is quite frankly ridiculous.

you are aware, right, that head for head, there are more german shepherds worldwide than any other single breed of dog apart from labradors?

you are aware, that the germans shepherd is a dog used by the police to catch criminals, is a drug sniffer dog, explosives detection dog, is a guide dog for the blind and a mountain search and rescue dog, therapy dog, and also an extremely popular, well mannered family pet, right?

It isn't a matter of opinion, it's a matter of fact, and you're completely and utterly wrong.

I suggest a little research before you post next time...

Trinity

deaddonkey wrote:

you are aware, right, that head for head, there are more german shepherds worldwide than any other single breed of dog apart from labradors?

you are aware, that the germans shepherd is a dog used by the police to catch criminals, is a drug sniffer dog, explosives detection dog, is a guide dog for the blind and a mountain search and rescue dog, therapy dog, and also an extremely popular, well mannered family pet, right?

It isn't a matter of opinion, it's a matter of fact, and you're completely and utterly wrong.

I suggest a little research before you post next time...

Obviously he isnt!!. I've had the privilege of doing the odd bit of fostering for a couple of rescues and this was one of the most popular dog along with the labrador amongst dog lovers for loyalty, easy training and the best with children.

Any dog has the potential to attack, just as any human has the potential to kill another human. Doesnt mean we will all go out and do it.

My MIL has one, shes in her late 50's, as does a friend of mine also in his 50's. I see more old men out walking these dogs and i have yet to see a scum bag with one.

carlmango11

omg thats terrible! What a dumb idea! Regardless of whether the dogs are kept in flats or not it's better than them just being abandoned as they will be by sum heartless assholes who only wanted the dog to look hard. The DSPCA are totally right on what'll happen!!!!

Trinity

carlmango11 wrote:

omg thats terrible! What a dumb idea! Regardless of whether the dogs are kept in flats or not it's better than them just being abandoned as they will be by sum heartless assholes who only wanted the dog to look hard. The DSPCA are totally right on what'll happen!!!!

DIdnt read what the DSPCA said but i gather its along the line of a mass killing.

DOgs handed into the pound are given 24 hours to live or be rehomed. Staffs, pitbulls etc are not rehomed, they are generally put down. (mostly)

Rescues are overworked, underfunded (if at all) and bursting at the seams with unwanted, abandoned, neglected or abused animals.

Jackie laughlin

There is no reason why a flat dweller should not keep a dog, even a large dog. Most dogs spend the bulk of their lives indoors with their owners. Then they go out with their owners. Some large dogs need very little exercise; some small dogs need a lot.

Some breeds should be encouraged to die out as their genetic purpose is incompatible with peaceful living.

To repeat, it is a question of what the breed was created for.

Corpo rules can't be bent as they go along. Any court would force any organisation to obey its own rules.

I very much object to the view that ownership trumps all and that tenants must always obey. That's nonsence and offensive too.