New Coffee Equipment

hshortt

My wife is getting a new kitchen and has bribed me into it by agreeing to new coffee equipment for me.

After my disasterous time with the Gaggia Titanium Plus I am looking for recommendations on a new machine. I have a good budget but since I had such a poor time with the automatic bean to cup machine, I'm likely to look for a grinder and a machine.

Trusted supplier is absolutely required. Netrade can kiss my ....
No issues buying online. Wife would prefer me to go to Arnotts or another brick and mortar 'see and feel' shop.

Recommendations?

Thanks and cheerio
Howard

RE*AC*TOR

I do have to say I like Bricks and Morter shops myself. Brown Thomas have a nice range, and I just bought a Gaggia Classic in House of Fraser in Dundrum this week as they are on special (€336).

The darling of the home espresso world is the Rancilio Silvia. This, however, you cannot but in any shop in dublin i know of. You can, however, buy it on http://www.espressocoffeeshop.com or http://happydonkey.co.uk or even http://www.hasbean.co.uk. I have only used hasbean previously, but all 3 are reputable.

The Rancilio Silvia will cost you €459 on espresso coffeeshop vs €336 for the Classic in town. The Silvia though has a bigger boiler, which is made of brass, whereas the Classic boiler is smaller and made of aluminium.

Some say the Classic is easier to get good shots out of, whereas the Silvia is more tempremental, but ultimately the Silvia offers more control etc. bla bla bla.

Brown Thomas also do Ascaso espresso machines, which, from the very few reports I've read are very good, and will clock in around the Silvia price.

Equally (or more) importantly is the grinder. If you have money to burn, the Mazzer Mini is widely regarder as the top, then you have the Rancilio Rocky, and another to consider is the Iberital MC2, which can be got for a very reasonable STG£100 at happydonkey. All of these are stepless grinders which means infinite adjustability as opposed to grinders like the Gaggia MDF which are stepped. I went for the MDF myself because, I drink coffee from moka pots and french presses as well, and because the grinder is stepped (like your titanium) it is easy for me to jump between grinds. However, the stepless should offer you more refinement.

Brown Thomas, once again do sell Ascaso stepless grinders, which I have read are top-class too. Ascaso are a spanish company, previously went under the name Innova. They have a good reputation on the coffeegeek forums.

I'm not sure how much exactly you have to spend.

If you are only going to make espressos and espresso based drinks I'd probably go for the stepless grinder.

If you are looking at €400 - €500 on the machine then probably the Silvia, but the Ascaso Steel in BT is worth a consideration (plus Bricks and morter shop have a certain security in them - and BT might be having a sale at the mo).

If you want to spend less, then the Gaggia Classic has a big following, and is a "proper" Gaggia.

If you are looking to spend more than the price range above, then come back to me, and we'll talk about heat-exchanger machines....

hshortt

My inexperience is showing as don't know any of the brands you've mentioned other than Gaggia of course. The Titaniium Plus cost me 887.03 euros, so I will look to spend approximately that again. I'll look up those sites now.

Cheers again,
Howard

RE*AC*TOR

I would consider this:

http://www.espressocoffeeshop.com/store/rancilio_set_D.html

Silvia and Rocky grinder and a base to put it on. €100 left over (minus whatever shipping costs).

Or if you want the bricks and morter route, do go to BT and look at the Ascaso machines. You might be able to afford a dual boiler job in there which would kick ass.

For that kind of money, unless you want to buy two machines, forget about Gaggia.

Gran Hermano

Ristretto are based in N. Ireland, should help reduce shipping,
and they have the:
Rancilio Silvia Espresso Machine

in stock for GBP 325 (479 euro)+ shipping.

Happydonkey are reputable but shipping can be expensive, also double
check as the whether their prices includes VAT.

Personally, I'd phone Ristretto 028 4062 3242 and see what price they'll
offer you on both the Silvia and the Rocky - personally I'd go for the
auto/no doser model of grinder as you can just dispense straight into the
portafilter.

Also pick yourself up a proper tamper!

hshortt

Done some checking there and the Gaggia Classic still stands out. The Rancilio Silvia looks good too and there's an offer on at Hasbean too. But the Ascaso Steel is the winner in appearance. Blue LEDS hahaha. I'll check them out in town at the weekend.
Cheers
Howard

hshortt

RE*AC*TOR wrote:

I would consider this:

http://www.espressocoffeeshop.com/store/rancilio_set_D.html

It's just very.... industrial looking. But the price is within range. Prefer if possible now to at least see the model somewhere before an online purchase. At this rate I could be without my daily need for a week!

Gran Hermano wrote:

personally I'd go for the
auto/no doser model of grinder as you can just dispense straight into the
portafilter.

Any particular reason why the no doser Vs doser model?

Thanks guys,
Howard

rockbeer

Just in case it's useful, I own one of the aforementioned Ascaso stepless grinders and I really couldn't be happier with it. The grind is extremely even which helps extract the maximum flavour.

I also have a Rancilio Silvia which was my first espresso machine and makes wonderful coffee. It is built to near-commercial spec. The only downside is that you have to switch between brew and steam modes since both work off the same boiler which takes a couple of minutes to get up to steaming temperature. This can be a PITA if you do a lot of milk steaming, but was never an issue for me as I always drink my coffee black and don't have many friends

I'm sure you'll be happy with any of the equipment mentioned by RE*AC*TOR, they're all quality pieces of kit. Good luck whichever way you go.

Edit: By the way if you want to get a proper look at the Silvia before you decide I could let you have a lend of mine since it's not doing much at the moment. Let me know - I'm in Kildare.

Cheers,
Bruce

RE*AC*TOR

hshortt wrote:

It's just very.... industrial looking. But the price is within range. Prefer if possible now to at least see the model somewhere before an online purchase. At this rate I could be without my daily need for a week!




Any particular reason why the no doser Vs doser model?

Thanks guys,
Howard

You aren't gonna see the Rancilio anywhere in ireland, unless one of the lads invites you round (edit: well well Bruce ^^ I spoke too soon).

I can't remember how much the Ascaso Steel Uno was in BT, but online they are actually a bit dearer than the Silvia. I think there might be 10% off in BT at the moment though.

You won't go far wrong getting the Ascaso Steel Uno and Grinder in BT. I imagine it would come in within your budget, and you know if there's ever a problem you can just bring it back in.

As for the Doser vs no doser - i think a lot of people just find the dosers don't work and only get in the way.

hshortt

Thanks again guys, I'll head into BT and check out the selection. They are not actually turned on in the shops are they? I like the look of the Ascaso, I'll put that at the top of the list. The Rancilio loses a point already due to online only. Gaggia .... I still like. We'll see.

Looking forward to happier times!

Thanks again,
Howard

RE*AC*TOR

hshortt wrote:

Thanks again guys, I'll head into BT and check out the selection. They are not actually turned on in the shops are they? I like the look of the Ascaso, I'll put that at the top of the list. The Rancilio loses a point already due to online only. Gaggia .... I still like. We'll see.

There is an asian woman, very friendly who mans the Ascaso area. BT has a kind of concession thing going on up there. She certainly will demo the grinder for you (she did for me, without me asking), and I reckon she will demo the machine too.

The Gaggia woman and the Ascaso woman kind of share an area and fight tooth and nail for customers. I bought my MDF (not to be confused with the brutal MM) there, and the Ascaso lady was trying to steer me the way of the Ascaso.

Anyway, to make my point, yes they do turn on the machines, and you should be able to see it in action.

As for the Rancilio losing points due to being online only, that is unfortunately the way things go in Ireland, where Maxwell House is more synonymous with coffee than Gaggia, Illy or La Pavoni (who?).

Anyone else know any other decent machines being sold in bricks and morter shops in around dublin?

The Gaggia's are carried in Arnotts, BT, House of Fraser. The Ascasos in BT. Does anyone sell a Saeco or a Solis?

*edit* of course the Starbucks Barista is a rebadged Saeco Via Venezzia, but it wouldn't be in the league of the aforementioned machines.

oh an resist the nespresso section in BT. It might be wife friendly... but... c'mon!

rockbeer

I had no problem trying out the machines in BT, they were only too keen for me to have a go in fact. I was quite impressed with the Acaso when I tried it, particularly the double boiler version if you can run to that. Judging by the spec it ought to be the equal of the Silvia. The things that swung me in the end were the Silvia's reputation, plus the sheer number of Silvia users out there, most of whom curiously also seem to be Internet geeks so I reckoned if anything did go wrong I wouldn't be short of advice on how to fix the damage.

Ascaso on the other hand are fairly new to the consumer market so it was that bit harder to find opinions and information about their machines. I certainly didn't read anything bad, and as I say I was impressed enough to buy their grinder in BTs.

It's also definitely worth looking for a discount in BTs. I got 20% off my Ascaso grinder because it was in a discontinued colour, which brought it down below the best online price. You never know what they'll find hidden away in the boxes.

I've had very little luck with bricks & mortar shops in Dublin - BTs is the only place I've found with any sort of worthwhile range. I did stumble across an Irish Rancilio dealer at a trade fair a while ago. I'm sure I've got their contact info filed away somewhere if it's any use to you.

RE*AC*TOR

rockbeer wrote:

I was quite impressed with the Acaso when I tried it, particularly the double boiler version if you can run to that. Judging by the spec it ought to be the equal of the Silvia.

Ha? Do you mean the double boiler version would be the equal of the silvia or the single boiler? As the Silvia has only one boiler I assume you mean the latter.

rockbeer

RE*AC*TOR wrote:

Ha? Do you mean the double boiler version would be the equal of the silvia or the single boiler? As the Silvia has only one boiler I assume you mean the latter.

Oops sorry for the confusion. Yes I would think the Ascaso single boiler would be roughly equivalent to the Silvia.

I think I was really trying to say that generally speaking the parts & build quality of the Ascaso range and the Silvia should be roughly equivalent, although not having used the Ascaso for any length of time it's hard to be certain. I like the fact that both companies make commercial machines. I know for a fact that some of the Silvia's parts are the same as those used in the Rancilio commercial range. I couldn't say that for sure about the Ascaso steel machines.

Just for additional information: when I was choosing my Silvia I seriously considered the Ascaso Steel. I enquired of the dealer I eventually bought from at www.myespresso.co.uk which of the two he would recommend (they sell both machines at the same price so there was no obvious reason for favouritism). He answered:

"As far as the comparison with Rancilio Silvia, I personaly would choose the Silvia, altough spec wise very little difference it is a proven winner."

Despite his terrible spelling, I think this helped swing it for me in the end

hth,
Bruce

SeaSide

I bought my Sylvia five years ago from deemac who are based in Ballymount in Dublin. They had a model on display there. Found that they knew their coffee too. I think that they held the Rancillio franchise for Ireland

rockbeer

SeaSide wrote:

I bought my Sylvia five years ago from deemac who are based in Ballymount in Dublin. They had a model on display there. Found that they knew their coffee too. I think that they held the Rancillio franchise for Ireland

Yes they did, and still do I believe although this crowd I met at the trade fair are now providing competition for them.

Out of interest how did you find Deemac to deal with?

When I was upgrading from the Silvia I spoke them about a commercial Rancilio machine (the Epoca 2-group). But in the end their price was just too high at a massive €2,488 - that was over a grand more than I would have paid on the net :eek:

I don't mind paying a bit of a premium for bricks & mortar and personal service, but there's a point at which the word extortion springs to mind. I gave them every chance to cut me a deal but got the impression they really weren't that interested.

Anyway as I say there is Rancilio competition now so maybe prices will improve.

SeaSide

rockbeer wrote:

Out of interest how did you find Deemac to deal with?

When I was upgrading from the Silvia I spoke them about a commercial Rancilio machine (the Epoca 2-group). But in the end their price was just too high at a massive €2,488 - that was over a grand more than I would have paid on the net :eek:

I was a total noob when I bought the Sylvia and I found them to be pretty good plus they threw is a set of cups and some other stuff.

JIZZLORD

dear christ! it looks like bodum and bialetti will be providing my coffee for some time...

hshortt

I'm enjoying this forum guys! Shame it's hidden away really. I've packed up the Titanium and it will be on it's merry way to Cork tomorrow. It's my sons sixth Birthday so we could possibly even be in the city

Otherwise it's a dry spell till the weekend.
Cheerio
Howard

RE*AC*TOR

JIZZLORD wrote:

dear christ! it looks like bodum and bialetti will be providing my coffee for some time...

i'll sell you my old gaggia if you want to step up a notch... see the link in my sig.

JIZZLORD

i'm grand as i am for the moment, once student poverty passes by i'll be able to go down that direction.
only another 2 years

hshortt

All settled now, Gaggia sent back this morning to Cork. Wife and son went to Harry Potter so my youngest and I headed into BTs to check out the display.

I had a laugh while standing there as both ladies were busy with customers but one guy had just returned his Gaggia Titanium Plus stating issues with the flow! I had to smile, they set it all up on the shelf and tested it out after which the guy was looking at a fantastic Gaggia Heat Exchanger coffee machine, mad money though!

The other lady was dealing with a guy buying a fully automatic Jura machine @ 1399 Euro. Looked like a nice set, some very fine touches such an LED light shining into the cup while dispensing.

When the younger, very attractive lady (Wallis) was done she came round to help me and we looked at the Ascaso Single (Uno) and the Ascaso dual (errrm... Duo! ) also had a look at the dream range. These are very stylish and compact machines. Quite expensive starting at 675 and going up for the polished steel version to 799. 10% off helps somewhat.

I noticed too that they carry a good range of accessories in such a small space. Tampers, wooded/steel, plastic, and pure aluminium ones too, various jugs, thermo's, brushes, spare parts, and even coffee! - imagine that.

Anyway, I was torn between the Ascaso uno and dual and trying to justify the requirements for the dual at over 200 euro more expensive. So I diverted attention to the grinders. There was a choice of 6, three of which were just different colours of the same Ascaso one @ 241 euro. Then the polished steel one @279. There was two brand new models too, agan both Ascaso, a black one @189 and a silver polished one @ about 220 I think. To check out the Gaggia ones would have meant diverting to the other lady and well... you know how it is!

Wallis demonstrated the grinder and as recommended by the guys in this thread it was stepless and can grind right down to 'flour' although Wallis didn't recommend this fine a grind for an espresso. Using the Ascaso she made me an Espresso and it was quite fine!

I then settled for the Ascaso Steel single and the black (no fingerprints) grinder. But it was a moment of indecisiveness, so I switched to the dual with the same grinder. Wallis was very nice and threw in some coffee and a frothing jug. I treated myself to an aluminium tamper to finish it off and then struggled to carry the lot, push the buggy with very patient child contained within back to the car.

Now I have it all here but will take some p0rn shots of the opening experience to add into RE*AC*OR's thread.

Cheers for all the help and suggestions, looking forward to setting it all up now.
Howard

RE*AC*TOR

Fan-fúcking-tastic. That's a serious piece of kit.

rockbeer

Fantastic, good on you, I'm sure you won't regret the extravagance once you start enjoying the fine espresso

I'd seriously be very interested to know how you find this machine, as I say I was seriously considering it for a while and it was mainly the lack of first-hand information about it that stopped me. So feel free to post a detailed review at your convenience

Seriously Howard, I really hope this works out for you, as I'm sure it will.

Cheers,
Bruce

Gran Hermano

Excellent shopping trip Howard - must concur, great choice.

You might find this interesting.

You should have nipped across the road to Boots and grabbed a pack
of sleeping tablets, sounds like you'll be up all night due to coffee OD.

RE*AC*TOR

Gran Hermano wrote:

You might find this interesting.

and of course he gets all the good points and none of the **** mentioned in that due to 110V power in the US.

hshortt

Gran Hermano wrote:

Excellent shopping trip Howard - must concur, great choice.

You might find this interesting.

You should have nipped across the road to Boots and grabbed a pack
of sleeping tablets, sounds like you'll be up all night due to coffee OD.

That's great! thanks Gran Hermano, I like to read reviews, this is quite detailed too, and it appears that the Ascaso Steel hits the right notes. I've now had a couple of really, really nice coffees from it and I feel that it's the start of a long relationship!

One dissapointing thing is there was no scoop provided, flippen' shame. I'd have bought one in BT if I'd known, but I did expect one to be in the pack. Oh well. I might get one of their fancy knock boxes too when I'm in.

I'm just brewing again now, so those sleep pills would no doubt come in handy tonight.

Video clips, & pictures to follow.
Cheers
Howard

Gran Hermano

Glad to hear you're having better luck with this machine than the last.

Hope you didn't waste too many beans getting the grinder dialled in,
the step less grinders are great as you can adjust slightly as your beans
age or humidity changes.

Coffeegeek provide good reviews, in fact the article I linked is only a
'first look' their full review is overdue at this stage but should appear
in time. The reviewer is a professional photographer, hence the nice
pics. I actually found the review the other day when the other posters
were discussing the Ascaso single boiler - but I didn't post it at the time
as I was afraid we'd swamp you with info and choices. Must say I really
like the design - glad to see I'm not the only one who's a sucker for
blue LEDs

hshortt

heh heh, its true, blue LEDS always look cool! This gear is good, but the grinder is unused at the moment, still getting through the ground just now. With a bit of luck and few more coffees I'll be back on the beans.

Cheers
Howard

Mr Magnolia

Good stuff Howard. That was a serious bit of shopping. Looking forward to a review of the Ascaso.

RE*AC*TOR

I would seriously dump the pre-ground stuff at the first availabe opportunity. I know its handy, and it'll take a bit of time and effort (do you have any time and effort left at this stage?) to dial in the grinder, but there will be no comparison in taste or crema.

You have yet to see what your machine can do.