Which mic for which drum?

Frankiestylee

I'm recording a demo for my band and I was just wondering which of my mics I should use for where on the drumkit.

I have two SM57s, one sm58, one beta57 and one sm7 . I know they're not the ideal mics for the job but currently that's what I have to work with.
So which mic would be best where and how would you arrange them?

teamdresch

Hmm.

I suppose 57s as overheads since they're the only pair, see which one of the other mics you like best on kick and snare.
After that, it depends on what kind of tom action your drummer will be dishing out.
Mic whatever is most important to each song, toms-wise.

Savman

Frankiestylee wrote:

I'm recording a demo for my band and I was just wondering which of my mics I should use for where on the drumkit.

I have two SM57s, one sm58, one beta57 and one sm7 . I know they're not the ideal mics for the job but currently that's what I have to work with.
So which mic would be best where and how would you arrange them?

Talk about a challenge. I can't see the results being too satisfactory but if I had to I'd say SM58 or Beta 57A on Kick with an SM57 on Snare. After that it's much of a much ness, they'll all do a similar job because they are all similar mics. I've never used an SM7 but the Shure page says its a Vocal mic.

Try borrow a dedicated Kick Mic and you're results will be instantly better, I've used Beta 57a as an overhead before and it worked ok in a pinch. I reckon it'll be your toms that may suffer but nowhere near as bad as your kick if you don't have the right mic for that.

booooonzo

Shure SM7 - kick

Shure SM 57 - snare

Shure SM 57 - Hi tom
Or as Overheads depending on sound. Id go for O/H's
Shure SM 58 - Low tom

Shure SM 58 Beta on HIhat or Floor Tom Or Room Mic and compress the crap out of it depending on Song.

With such a limited mic selection all you can do is experiment till it sounds good. but definatly SM7 & 57 on kick snare anyway

Niall - Dahlia

This reminds me of...

The All 57 Song

Cant remember if that was posted here before, but might be worth a read and listen Frankie. I think Savman is right, it's much of a much ness, just experiment if you have the time.

booooonzo

search gear slutz for sm7 kick drum. Its used fairly often and as the rest say after that its much of a muchness except 57 has smaller head for snare and beta has a slightly higher presence on top end.

Frankiestylee

Well we did a live recording and I used the SM7 on the kick and it worked really well, so I'm glad to hear other people suggesting it.

So I take it if I have to use the SM58 it's more of a low tom thing.

I was kinda toying with the idea of

SM7 kick
SM57 for stereo overheads
beta57 snare
SM58 large tom

If limited to 5 mics would it be better to cut the overheads and focus on a dedicated hi-hat and tom one?

Savman

Well in your average 4/4 rock choon let's say you have your standard drumbeat of "boom tap boom boom tap"

By my own estimation, allow 2-3 kick drum hits per bar of music with an average of 2 snare hits. Over the entire song, the total number of kick drum hits will probably be over 100. Compare that to the number of tom hits.

You only use toms during a roll or fill so FWIW I'd be going the extra mile on that Kick n' Snare combo. You could get away with a dodgy sounding tom cos you only listen to it sparingly whereas the Kick is usually in your face for all of 5mins, it will be less forgiving.

Savman

Frankiestylee wrote:

I was kinda toying with the idea of

SM7 kick
SM57 for stereo overheads
beta57 snare
SM58 large tom

If limited to 5 mics would it be better to cut the overheads and focus on a dedicated hi-hat and tom one?

That's probably about as good as you can do with the tools, I'd be inclined to suggest maybe scrapping the overheads and mic'ing toms but don't gate, leave room for spill. Your floor tom mic will get loadsa Ride Cymbal if the Drummer sets it up that way. Snare mic will get HiHat bleed and so forth.

Doctor J

Do a seach for Glyn Johns mic setup, all dynamic and works with anything from three mics up. It worked for The Who and Led Zeppelin so you should be able to get a result.

Frankiestylee

Just out of interest Savman, what tools would be ideal for the job? I always thought sm57s were a bit standard for everything but the kick.

My problem is I'm still waiting on two condensor instrument mics from America... so that's kinda hampering my plans somewhat at the mo.

Thanks Dr. J, I'll go check that out now ... once I ensure the bass pedal is well oiled I wouldn't mind some Zeppelinesque action.

Savman

Beta 52 or AKG D112 on the kick is the norm although Beta 91 is my weapon of choice.
SM57 can tame a wild snare, Beta 57A will brighten it up. Either is good.

Sennheiser e604 or Beta 98 on toms - the 604 can take a beating and is much cheaper too.

Any choice of condensers for Overhead, AKG C3000S being one of the norms although I use the C1000S 'cos its cheaper and a little less fragile when flung in the back of a van at 2am.

HiHat mic'ing probably a Beta 98 or similar small diaphragm condenser, that's a bastard to mic without getting bleed from the Snare.

A good drum mic rig would set ye back the guts of €1.5k easily but you'd have to be fairly serious about what ye do before it'd really be a worthwhile investment. Some folks get by on the basis that "any aul mic will do"

teamdresch

Frankiestylee wrote:

If limited to 5 mics would it be better to cut the overheads and focus on a dedicated hi-hat and tom one?

No.

Savman

teamdresch wrote:

No.

How insightful. :rolleyes:

teamdresch

No, you'd be better placing the overheads to fill in the areas not covered by the close mics.

Savman

teamdresch I'm sure you'd agree a flat out "No" was of no help to anyone, if you're gonna take part in a discussion at least give an opinion?;)

I would suggest that neither method is better, he will lose something doing it either way. If it was a live gig you'd be grand with a kick and 2 overheads but on a recording you'll soon get frustrated at not having all the control you need over everything.

Frankiestylee

I'm actually becoming strangley attached to the 3 mic live recording we did a few days ago. Just a kick, snare and one overhead. Obviously not ideal, but still pretty effective, though I'm not planning on doing it again.

teamdresch

Savman wrote:

teamdresch I'm sure you'd agree a flat out "No" was of no help to anyone, if you're gonna take part in a discussion at least give an opinion?;)

Yah, I followed up there. Sorry dudez.

Funnily enough, I've never ever used a hihat mic.
Do you guys really find them necessary?

Doctor J

I like to use one on the high hat and especially one under the ride pointed into the bell, can't get enough of a focused ride.

Savman

Usually the Hats go without unless you have an abundance of mics at your disposal which unfortunately isn't the OP.

But I agree with the above, I like a good ride (wha wha wha):o

frobisher

Good thread.

Frankiestylie: Are you getting mics on the cheap from Shure or something!!?? The reality is that it's impossible to really know without knowing the drums/room/genre/drummer/cosmic alignment etc. But sure there's no fun in that....so....I'd try the sm7 on the snare, the 58 on bass drum and the 2 57's in an XY as OH's. I'd whack up the beta away from the rest, purely as a room mic to slide in for the bridge or the intro or something.

Niall - Dahlia

Yeah this thread is bordering on Shure shilling!

I'm also rarely in a position to use a hi-hat mic. With my own gear when I'm miking a kit I'm usually left with a LDC spare, which I always use as a room mic in preference to a hi-hat mic. I find the overheads do a decent enough job of catching the hi-hat, though it is nice having a dedicated hi-hat mic when available for a bit more definition.

Niall - Dahlia

Oh and just to highlight the other extreme of all this, I was talking to the brother of the owner of Sian records who have Jaded Sun over in LA at the moment recording their album. He claims that they used over 45 mics on the drumkit! :eek:

I wouldn't know where to put 45 mics on a symphony orchestra let alone a drumkit! It could be bull**** of course, but it's fun to think about, and if anybody could suggest a drum miking method that uses 45 microphones I'd like to hear it!

Savman

Niall - Dahlia wrote:

Oh and just to highlight the other extreme of all this, I was talking to the brother of the owner of Sian records who have Jaded Sun over in LA at the moment recording their album. He claims that they used over 45 mics on the drumkit! :eek:

I wouldn't know where to put 45 mics on a symphony orchestra let alone a drumkit! It could be bull**** of course, but it's fun to think about, and if anybody could suggest a drum miking method that uses 45 microphones I'd like to hear it!

I know the lads in Jaded Sun, I'm not sure how much truth there is in the 45 mics thing but might have to find that out. It sounds hugely exaggerated, I can't think of any point of having so many drum mics, even with 2 mics on everything.

Niall - Dahlia

Yeah I reckon it's bull too, exageration or misunderstanding, but do find out if you can. If it's true it better be one hell of a drum sound for all that effort.

Savman

Sure it'd be absolutely pointless, in the final mix you wouldn't be able to hear over half anyway!
I'd be surprised if it was true tbh.

Frankiestylee

Hah hah yeah, the main mics I use tend to be Shure ... I find their easy numbering to be rather handy, the Sennheiser ones with their three digits... jaysis. Though they do make a vocal mic I love, but again I forget the number.

In the end I didn't even get to use five mics on the drums. We had to get tracks and some practice done in two weekend sessions, so we did a live instrumental take and then vocals/fiddly bits later.

I think I ended up using SM7 : Kick , SM57 : snare , SM57 overhead for small toms, hi-hat, some Sennheiser mic for ride and floor tom.
Not ideal I know, but we're quite happy with the results and it'll do as a demo.
Hopefully the next time we have to record I'll have some condensor mics and a few more tricks (and the drummer will be able to play to a click )