Top-notch cars to help gardai chase down criminals

maidhc

murphaph wrote:

I'd confidently say there's less respect for the PSNI than the Garda and their motors always look smart, even the armoured landrovers!

€5 that it is easier to dent a Fiat Ducato than an armour plated landrover.

I don't doubt the garda drivers are careless with the cars, but they do get a hard life at the same time.

murphaph

They do indeed but an oul wash every now and again can't be asking that much. Brit cop cars seem to have panels replaced as soon as they are damaged. They must get bashed up there too but they always look smart. I (sadly) believe it's symptomatic of the irish "shur'n it'll do rightly" attitude.

colm_mcm

I saw an armoured police Suzuki Carry in Rome last week. Kinda made lose the respect they got from me for cruising round in the Alfa 159 JTD-M's

I was thinking, "they might be bulletproof, but I could just tip it over if I wanted!"

crosstownk

Not many can out run one of these.................



More expensive, but a serious tool for the Gardaí.

I do think that a few decent Garda vehicles will be a lot better than the current 'run of the mill' stuff that they have used up to now.

bbability

Did they not sell that chopper (squirrel) and buy this one (EC 135)

Lord Nikon

This is how they do in Germany


Mercedes CLS Brabus


US somewhere maybe

Lord Nikon

In Russia

maidhc

The reason the germans police cars are silver is to enhance resale value! So I learned at the MB Museum in Stuttgart!

Lord Nikon

No one going to catch Mad MAx though

crosstownk

bbability wrote:

Did they not sell that chopper (squirrel) and buy this one (EC 135)

I think so - I just threw the other image up as it was one of the first that Google threw at me. You're probably right, because the one I see regularly is a lot bigger than the Squirrel and more like the one in you're attachment.

Mutz

I'd recomend Ford Mondeos and Volvo S40's for marked patrol cars. They're fast enough for Irish roads and safe. They seem to be the only "true" patrol car. Also minimum engine size should be 1.8L or 2 Litre. 1.4 and 1.6 can't take the abuse.

The Toyota Avensis was brought in recently but doesn't seem to hold up very well in handling or gearboxes. The smaller hatchbacks should just be kept for enquiries however when cars go for services, a station will be left short a car and thats why you see these smaller cars responding to calls.

The unmarked guys should have the snazzy stuff but I think X5's are rediculous. A landcruiser is just as good and probably more reliable.

80k miles on patrol cars is very high! 100k miles is usually the retirement stage. They're used by three different drivers, 24 hours a day. Each driver would have different styles of driving and also abuse cars in different ways. Its left up to the drivers to keep the cars clean.

I agree that it is rediculous to have police driving without any formal police training. To have patrol cars with 100k miles on the clock, you can be guaranteed that they've been in crashes, rammed, windows broken, bricked, blood and vomit spilled in them - endless amount of abuse. And they are still standard cars with lights and sirens in them!

In Blanchardstown their Ford transit was rammed head on by a scumbag completely destroying the whole front cab section. That was in November. It was recently delivered back to Blanch, but is "awaiting" a new piston! Would anyone on here drive such a death trap? Don't think so! unfortunately, that's what the Guards are being forced to use.

If they just standardise the fleet it would probably make more sense. The traffic units got new Opel Vectra CD(red)Ti. Now they are fast! Perfect for high speed motorway chases! You'd need high speed units for chasing dublin burglars coming inbound from Kildare and Meath who've stolen Bmw's and Merc's in Burglaries in the early hours of the morning. Otherwise, chases only really involve old jap cars and last a few minutes in housing estates so high spec cars wouldn't be suited.

ballooba

Mutz wrote:

In Blanchardstown their Ford transit was rammed head on by a scumbag completely destroying the whole front cab section. That was in November. It was recently delivered back to Blanch, but is "awaiting" a new piston! Would anyone on here drive such a death trap? Don't think so! unfortunately, that's what the Guards are being forced to use.

The Gardai got sued this week for the wrongful death of a young Garda due to a gearbox failure. Shameful.

I got pulled over (and booked) on on the M1 on Tuesday by an unmarked Subaru Forester. Those things are great for policing that road. I was aware that they had them, but it didn't click when he was behind me. A thoroughly deserved 1 penalty point. My first one.

Victor

R.O.R wrote:

Remember that the cars are free of VRT and VAT so are ridiculously cheap in comparison to the figure's we'd pay. If they run them for 2 years and sell them on (without having to pay VAT or VRT) then there is probably profit to be made.

All government agencies pay VRT and VAT.

They amount of gobsheens around is unbelieveable.

Victor

layke wrote:

Nope. In fact, they are quite underpowered comparing to what a lot of modded car owners spin around in.

But the Garda cars are also 'modded'. And who is to say they are actually telling the truth about what models they are buying?

Sure why do you think they buy Fiats?

Because they are cheap and nobody expects them.

Clare gunner wrote:

First off,can the gardai actually handle high speed persuits in high powerd vechicles?

These vehicles are for serious crime, not general patrolling and traffic duties. The Garda will not persue joyriders, because thats how accidents happen and its often what the joyriders want.

R.O.R

Victor wrote:

All government agencies pay VRT and VAT.

They amount of gobsheens around is unbelieveable.

Having dealt with a government agency regarding vehicles I can state categorically that they do not pay VAT or VRT on new vehicles. What would be the point? It goes from one government agency straight to another so they just save on paperwork.

True what you say about there being a lot of gobsheens around :rolleyes:

layke

Victor wrote:

But the Garda cars are also 'modded'. And who is to say they are actually telling the truth about what models they are buying?
Because they are cheap and nobody expects them.
These vehicles are for serious crime, not general patrolling and traffic duties. The Garda will not persue joyriders, because thats how accidents happen and its often what the joyriders want.

No they have hardened suspention, the rest is bog standard. The 2.0l mondeo puts out 145bhp (if memory serves), a vtec 1.6 civic puts out 160bhp, has better handeling and is lighter. Trust me victor, I have very very very reliable sources for this.

Anyway I can see your point on serious crime but you have to see mine, We can get better for cheaper.

GTC

Victor wrote:

These vehicles are for serious crime, not general patrolling and traffic duties. The Garda will not persue joyriders, because thats how accidents happen and its often what the joyriders want.

True to a certain extent, particularly with regard to the jeep-type cars and the more executive cars. As for the few 3 and 5 series BMWs, many of them have been sent out to Traffic Divisions over the last few months. At Dublin castle, (HQ for DMR Traffic) there are quite a few 5 series and 3 series unmarked cars, as far as I could tell, but I'm not in DMR traffic

MercMad

Okay but the point about buying Land Cruisers instead of X5's is a bit silly. Nobody buys LC's so they would stick out like sore thumbs compared to the amount of X5's, which are significantly faster, that are out there !

GTC

But would still offer a better incentive if you are seeking value for money for the taxpayer, I can see the point of that argument too.

Victor

Eh, what about crash surviveability?

layke wrote:

No they have hardened suspention, the rest is bog standard. The 2.0l mondeo puts out 145bhp (if memory serves), a vtec 1.6 civic puts out 160bhp, has better handeling and is lighter. Trust me victor, I have very very very reliable sources for this.

Sorry, I think I meant the better cars are modded, not the patrol cars.

R.O.R wrote:

Having dealt with a government agency regarding vehicles I can state categorically that they do not pay VAT or VRT on new vehicles. What would be the point? It goes from one government agency straight to another so they just save on paperwork.

Can I assume you are in the motor trade? You might be only seeing part of the transaction, with the vehicle seller receiving a cheque net of tax and a cheque for the tax amount sent direct to the Revenue and the seller getting an acknowledgement. Similar procedures operate throughout government procurement.

maidhc

Victor wrote:

Can I assume you are in the motor trade? You might be only seeing part of the transaction, with the vehicle seller receiving a cheque net of tax and a cheque for the tax amount sent direct to the Revenue and the seller getting an acknowledgement. Similar procedures operate throughout government procurement.

So what? The net effect is the same. The government does not pay tax (other than where it is done for administrative efficiency), taxpayers do!

A patrol car does not "cost" a sale in the private sector, so no VRT/VAT is foregone, hence what a car costs the state is the price ex-tax!

Victor

Realise that the exchequer has allocated a budget to the Garda. It does not matter to he exchequer * whether that budget is spent on a high or low tax item. If they spent the money on bicycles (21% VAT) instead of cars (21% VAT + VRT), changes the amount of tax, but doesn't change the amount of the Garda budget.

* The Government and the Commissioner do care how it is spent.

Del2005

AFAIK the reason they buy X5's for cop cars is cause the boot lifts up. Saw a program on the English Motorway patrols and they only used vehicles where the rear door went vertical incase an officer was on a the road side and a something was going to hit them, if they had a LC with a side opening door they would have to run around the door and it would take longer.

Also recently seen a program where the 3 Series is now the new Mondeo, so if the Gardai want to blend in they should buy the biggest seller. TBH I don't think the Gardai on patrol driving an X5 is a big issue when Bertie and the boys/girls are being driven around in S Class Mercs.

Save the money on the ministrial fleet and buy the Gardai whatever they want.

RedorDead

MercMad wrote:

Okay but the point about buying Land Cruisers instead of X5's is a bit silly. Nobody buys LC's so they would stick out like sore thumbs compared to the amount of X5's, which are significantly faster, that are out there !

Landcruisers sold in Ireland Jan-June: 2850

X5 sold in Ireland Jan-June: 366

Quite the other way around methinks!!!

Blitzkrieger

MercMad wrote:

X5's, which are significantly faster

Have you seen an X5 take a corner at speed? You'd laugh if you weren't worried about the berk driving it killing someone.

IMO *they should never, ever buy a 'suv'. An Impreza wagon, Legacy estate or Volvo T5 would be way better suited to the job.












*'they' can also be applied any soccer mom or urban ****wit driving around in them.

onemanband

The BMW 535D would get my vote. Mental power and decent fuel economy.

maidhc

Victor wrote:

Realise that the exchequer has allocated a budget to the Garda. It does not matter to he exchequer * whether that budget is spent on a high or low tax item. If they spent the money on bicycles (21% VAT) instead of cars (21% VAT + VRT), changes the amount of tax, but doesn't change the amount of the Garda budget.

* The Government and the Commissioner do care how it is spent.

Yes, but again, so what...

They can buy Childrens shoes for the gardaí if they want the most tax efficient mode of transport! They can make a call however they see fit!

As a tax payer I don't care all that strongly if they buy an x5 over a specced out landcruiser. The pre tax price (which I am paying) isn't massively different.

E92

Del2005 wrote:

Also recently seen a program where the 3 Series is now the new Mondeo, so if the Gardai want to blend in they should buy the biggest seller.

Thats not true at all. You're thinking of the UK. The biggest seller by far in that category is the Avensis. They shifted 8,800 as far as I remember in 2005 here. Ford on the other hand sold 3,500 Mondeos in the same year.
The Mondeo still outsells the 3 series in this country.

on the other hand, in the UK, you're absoluetly right, the 3 series outsells the Mondeo, Avensis etc.

maidhc

E92 wrote:

Thats not true at all. You're thinking of the UK. The biggest seller by far in that category is the Avensis. They shifted 8,800 as far as I remember in 2005 here. Ford on the other hand sold 3,500 Mondeos in the same year.

The figures will probably be reversed for 2008 if not 2007 as the Avensis reaches the end of its life. Most 2006 Mondeo seem to have been sold to the Gardai!

Del2005

E92 wrote:

Thats not true at all. You're thinking of the UK. The biggest seller by far in that category is the Avensis. They shifted 8,800 as far as I remember in 2005 here. Ford on the other hand sold 3,500 Mondeos in the same year.
The Mondeo still outsells the 3 series in this country.

on the other hand, in the UK, you're absoluetly right, the 3 series outsells the Mondeo, Avensis etc.

Yeah it was the UK I was takling about, forgot we have different sales:o