Depression theme c & c

thebaz

hughchal wrote:

He looks pretty content to me, happy even.

I would suggest a little more anonymity in your photos of junkies and drunks though, somebody somewhere might be pissed off to see their loved ones portrayed in such a way.

one thing , reading some of the other forums, particularly AH , many posters see the less fortunate as objects for abuse, i'd like to think photography can potray the less fortunate as humans .. misfortune can happen to anyone ... but then you don't want to hurt others such as relatives , as you suggest .. grey area !

Eirebear

I'm glad this thread has finally gone somewhere useful and lost the bickering.
I said before that one and three dont really do anything for me, but having taken another look at them i think i can see what you were trying to get across with the first one.
possibly though i would have waited untill the train was leaving the station and got the back end of it moving off down the tracks without you?
Thats just my interpretation mind, going from my own experiences with feelings of depression etc.

The second one works perfectly for me, i wouldnt touch it, the space to the left and the graffiti in the top right all add to the feeling of lonliness and isolation for me.

The third one doesnt wrok for me at all, if you didnt know it was the entrance to a hospital it would just be a picture of a path....but thats just my opinion again, not exatly something to worry too much about!.

As for the link you have since removed, i havnt seen it, but im sure that your within your rights to take pictures of anyone on the streets and display them in a non-inflammatory way?
You used it to remind people/yourself that things are never quite as bad as they seem to be and that you have to make the best of your situation (im basing all this on the fact that the guy supposedly looks fairly happy) so unless someone (family, friend etc) asks you to remove it as its causing them discomfort, then your ok with keeping it up.

minikin

excuse the ignorance but what does c & c stand for

quality beverages at a price that's right

Hugh_C

Eirebear wrote:

im sure that your within your rights to take pictures of anyone on the streets and display them in a non-inflammatory way?

I haven't a clue what the legal situation is, but one person's non-inflammatory might be grossly insulting to another person's view. It's subjective and therefore presumably really difficult to define.

Any professionals in here with experience in these things? Model releases? Candids in the street?

440Hz

minikin wrote:

quality beverages at a price that's right

lmao! nice one.

Eirebear

hughchal wrote:

I haven't a clue what the legal situation is, but one person's non-inflammatory might be grossly insulting to another person's view. It's subjective and therefore presumably really difficult to define.

Any professionals in here with experience in these things? Model releases? Candids in the street?

I'm sure the law states that you can take photos of people in public places as long as your not using them in a defamatory way, so as long as he isnt captioning his photo (remember im going on a picture i cant see!) something like thieving Junkie Scum then technically he is ok.

Obviously common sense comes into play though and if someone got in touch with him about taking it down then he would have a decision to make, but untill then i dont see the problem (again im going on a picture i havnt seen)
We cant just photograph the nice things in life...

thebaz

Morlar wrote:

To me there was no forethought in those pictures in terms of composition, selecting aperture or shutter speed or anything also in terms of processing.

Looking back your nasty , unprovoked and insensitive criticism , still bites.
In hindsight I'm not too gone on photograph 2 and 3 , but I still believe the insensitivness of the criticism was uncalled for , given the subject matter , unless you know nothing about depression, in which case should you comment as such ?

I don't like everything thing posted here or everyones styles , nor do i expect everyone to like mine , and i post here to get pointers and help, I am not a professional nor photographing that long.
I know nothing about your photography , but no matter how good you are , or think you are , i could find faults . If photography is about perfection , we might as well all give up.

Morlar

thebaz wrote:

Looking back your nasty , unprovoked and insensitive criticism , still bites.
In hindsight I'm not too gone on photograph 2 and 3 , but I still believe the insensitivness of the criticism was uncalled for , given the subject matter , unless you know nothing about depression, in which case should you comment as such ?

I don't like everything thing posted here or everyones styles , nor do i expect everyone to like mine , and i post here to get pointers and help, I am not a professional nor photographing that long.
I know nothing about your photography , but no matter how good you are , or think you are , i could find faults . If photography is about perfection , we might as well all give up.

My response to that is - this is a photography forum, not a support forum for people with depression who take pictures.

I know that sounds like a snappy smartarsey answer but its actually what it boils down to in my view.

Photographs should be assessed on the merits of the photograph, not on the basis of how delicate the photographer is feeling.

I stand by my 'nasty , unprovoked and insensitive criticism' (your take on it not mine) - I honestly dont see any forethought or effort in those 3 pictures - and again - if you told me that each one took a single second to take from the point of opening the camera bag and taking the camera out to putting the camera back in the bag I would not be surprised.

There is a whole genre of photography which works quite well along those lines - you could call it 'grab shots' or whatever - and probably a few other names too. Some of them work and are interesting - the examples you posted in my view do not work and are not interesting. You are welcome to not like my shots - and also to criticise them too. Were all adults here and dont have to all get along with each other all of the time.

thebaz

Morlar wrote:

My response to that is - this is a photography forum, not a support forum for people with depression who take pictures.

I know that sounds like a snappy smartarsey answer but its actually what it boils down to in my view.

your right, it is a snappy smartarse answer , real photography to me is about capturing a fealing ... and thankfully i don't want my photographs to appeal to insentive smartarses

Sebzy

Now for how much longer can you flog a dead donkey ???

magicbastarder

everyone's probably terrified of posting in this thread now.

thebaz

magicbastarder wrote:

everyone's probably terrified of posting in this thread now.

why's that ?

i'm seriously considering stop using boards to display photographs ( many i'm sure will be glad ) .
Nothing wrong with negative criticism , we all need help to improve , in fact negative criticism on boards is rare , but sometimes when it happens it can be very stinging and done in an insensitive manner.

I hope DamnedThing comes back , he has some wonderfull photographs , but i assume he too was hurt , by some of his feedback given here .

Most great artists are/were sensitive souls .

digitalbeginner

magicbastarder wrote:

everyone's probably terrified of posting in this thread now.

thebaz wrote:

why's that ?

A number of reasons I think.

- Forums allow you to be more direct in type than you might be in person
- When potentially hurtful remarks are made in person we use a lot of body language and tone of voice to soften our criticisms
- Depending on the body language of the person receiving the criticism most of us will usually further modify what we have to say to soften it even more(that is, if we have the guts to make the criticisms in person in the first place).

Now.. off to the Psychology Forum I go....

Dave

minikin

Have to agree with baz here, particularly given the sensitive subject matter of these images. It's one thing to slaughter someones pics but it's completely tactless to do the same when they've pointed out that they took them as a form of expressing feelings that are better out than in. A bit of understanding wouldn't go amiss. There's enough bloody stigma about depression in this country already, if people feel they can't address it in a visual way on here, without being made to feel worse then that stigma will continue.

What happened with damned thing?

Sebzy

Well if your one of those sensitive souls types I think boards is seriously the wrong place to look for criticism. Well in fact the whole internet is the wrong place.

Bring back the days of christian support groups on Undernet. They were great fun.

minikin

yeah, you're right sebzy the photography section (and the whole internet) should only be for showing pictures of flowers, birds and sunsets and all discussions should be limited to "should i buy this lens" :rolleyes:

thebaz

Sebzy wrote:

Well if your one of those sensitive souls types I think boards is seriously the wrong place to look for criticism. Well in fact the whole internet is the wrong place.

Bring back the days of christian support groups on Undernet. They were great fun.

maybe your right , i've been using boards about a year , and have in general found it very helpful , most people in general have been very helpfull, whils't i tried to develop an understanding and general knowledge of photography. I don't believe anyone really likes negative feedback / critique, but i see it a necessity to help me become a better photographer .
Whilst i don't like a lot of stuff posted here , i believe I (and most here) am tactfull in any negative reaction/comment, but usually keep my mouth shut .
So for now i will continue to use boards as an info service, but not for displaying my wares.

But then again , rules are for fools !

Muineach

As long as you get some constructive critisim, i.e.

BAD : that photo's a load of bo***x
GOOD: the photo's over saturated, slightly out of focus, composition is a bit off

For me anyway, the boards is somewhere I can get a third opinion, I find there's no point in asking friends/family that don't have a clue (in a good way), for them I take a photo and do different things to it and ask them better or worse, it's the most you can expect from them. Most of the time they can see whats wrong but just can't explain it or they know the "lingo".

That's my opinion anyway

i personally prefer to give criticisms in the "Soc - Personal Issues"
only joking, don't want to get banned

prox

minikin wrote:

yeah, you're right sebzy the photography section (and the whole internet) should only be for showing pictures of flowers, birds and sunsets and all discussions should be limited to "should i buy this lens" :rolleyes:

Is it still sarcasm when it's true?

joolsveer

I think that you should not give up on Boards because of some negative comments. I have been there myself too and maybe don't post as much as I used to for that reason but I think it is worth making the effort even if it gives rise to adverse comment.

This is my interpretation of depression for what it's worth. It is a self portrait.


Thank you for airing the subject.
Dave

prox

You look a bit down in the dumps there Dave.

I was pretty depressed when I took this one. It rains a lot in Vancouver.

Húrin

thebaz wrote:

As i posted in another forum , i use photography as a tool when fealing down/low.

All I see is some "this is where I am from" photos. Remember, you need to be more explicit. We can't read your mind!

thebaz

H&#250 wrote: »

All I see is some "this is where I am from" photos. Remember, you need to be more explicit. We can't read your mind!

this is explicit
http://www.flickr.com/photos/thebaz/799010310/

but i prefer subtlety

Oriel

thebaz wrote:

Looking back your nasty , unprovoked and insensitive criticism , still bites.

thebaz, just learn to take it. I agree with Morlar. You felt something when you were taking these photos, which you just didn't get across successfully when capturing them. You failed in your photographic objective. So what.
For the love of god, let this thread die, and try again. That's what photography is about.

Oriel

prox wrote:

I was pretty depressed when I took this one.

The hardest art is being in a good mood when taking a photograph, and making people look at your photograph and feel sad.
I'm better at doing that with music, than with photography, but that's for another forum.

Dilbert75

Baz, FWIW I saw merit in them all, even if they don't precisely hit the spot for me. For me, they're not the best of your work but, considering some of your other pictures, that's no insult. Anyway I'm no expert and my interpretation of the pix may not be everyone's - the beauty of photography.

The first one has sprung a thought in my mind about photographing trains, but with the stated theme I think I'd like to get a better impression of the train leaving me behind. Maybe from the near platform, rather than the far one too?

The second one, despite being in colour, gives a strong impression of greyness and also solitude of the person in red. I can see what you were going for, maybe experimenting with angles - trying getting more to your left, so you're shooting almost parallel to the wall - might be interesting? Also maybe a little closer to the subject, but not much?

Third one, had you not stated the location, would not have been clear to me. I'd imagine that entering that building as either a patient or relative would be a very daunting experience. Perhaps a slight upward angle, photographing from ground level upwards, would emphasise that?

In any case, fair play to you for putting such a personal thing on a public forum and inviting c&c. Not easy.

mobileblog

When I first seen these shots I just looked at them and nothing registered in my head. The second one suggested loneliness, but to me that does not indicate depression. Everyone goes through problems and we all have different views and answer on how to get through it. But to me personally they didn’t really speak to me.
I’m guessing with the photos you have posted this is how you see your depression, bleak.
I’ve never been prescribed drugs or have been diagnosed with depression so maybe I don’t truly understand how you were fellingat the time but as I said we all have ups and downs.
I hope everthing is going good for you now.

So here’s one I took when I was having a bad week.


When the journey comes to an end its time to face the music and dance.

thebaz

thanks guys, i had the hump with photography, thats the way i'm with everything , get into something , and if i'm not great , i throw in the towell, music , footbal, tennis, golf you name it ... anyway i pushed myself this morning got back on the bike and went went out to the infamous St. michaels estate in inchicore , and took a few ..
heres one
http://www.flickr.com/photos/thebaz/932744691/

despite its image , i found the people great, and lifted my spirits , my belief in humanity and photography.
as usual more on
http://www.flickr.com/photos/thebaz/

even back playing football

311

Great stuff baz

soccerc

Well done Baz.

On a point of order, the older flats are not part of St Michaels Estate being on the other side of Vincent Street. AFAIK, they are not due to be demolished.

5uspect

Thats a great shot, has the artist come full circle?
Maybe sometimes you need the lows?

thebaz

heres a thread from 3 years ago , when i tried probably unsuccessfully to capture depression - it is something personal to me - as i still get bouts of the dark dog - anyway a couple of nights ago i was feeling particularly low and put together a slideshow of some sad images from over the past couple of years.

If you do not want to feal sad please don't watch - thanks ;-0

http://www.flickr.com/photos/thebaz/sets/72157625123306984/show/

paulusdu

Pretty powerful stuff Baz. Im not sure if i feel depressed after looking at those shot or gratefull that i have what i have and who i have.
I'm not sure what emotion those shots spark, but it definatly stirred some emotion in me.
really impressive.

FoxT

This set of photographs is powerful & well done.

Doesnt depress me - but conveys very cleary that in comparison to these people I lead a sheltered & comfortable existence & have a lot to be grateful for.

Thanks.

- Foxt

quad_red

thebaz wrote: »

http://www.flickr.com/photos/thebaz/932744691/

Great image.

AnCatDubh

thebaz wrote: »

If you do not want to feal sad please don't watch - thanks

Definitely worth watching - I'm liking those Barry - many of which we've seen in one form or other but interesting none the less.

The original photo's appear long gone (from post #1)

I guess it depends on an individuals frame of mind/thought before viewing, but i'm not finding them sad or depressing at all. As with most of your work i've found - honest portraits of life and always an interesting perspective.

Hope you are still shooting regularly.

Diabhal_Glas

A really interesting raw honest set Barry and congrats on this winner

http://www.flickr.com/photos/thebaz/1012783486/

Lagnagoushee

Excellent set Baz,
For me the photos represent "Reality" with a capital "R".
Good, gritty, photographs.

Trev M

The one at the ATM really tugs at the heart strings , well done.

Zillah

How do you go about taking these? Is it not pretty tasteless, voyeuristic and exploitative to take photos of people in a sleeping bag on the street?

Trev M

Zillah wrote: »

How do you go about taking these? Is it not pretty tasteless, voyeuristic and exploitative to take photos of people in a sleeping bag on the street?

Do you find the pictures tasteless, voyeuristic and exploitative ?

Zillah

I found them quite fascinating! But it's easy to enjoy photos of other people in difficult circumstances while I'm sitting in bed in a nice apartment using my laptop with broadband internet. I somehow doubt that the people pictured share our esthetic sensibilities.

I'm not attacking Baz, I'm just suggesting some potential issues. By taking a picture of a person in such a state, are you not robbing just a little bit of dignity from someone who already has so little left?

Trev M

Thats great answer in fairness to ya.... there in lies the value of the pics, you consider your own personal position relative to the subject matter, of course you know youre more fortunate than so many other people but a picture triggers a thought or an emotion more than a piece of text or a comment "we're so lucky we dont now it " etc .Job done, intentionally or not in my view. The dignity thing is a tricky one, I see the picture more of an indictment of our country than the people in them. I do see where youre coming from though.

The ATM one really made me dwell on it for a while.... the baby , why was the mother there what happened, look at "little miss perfect" I thought to myself, then I thought jaysus ya can hardly blame the kid in the pic , and on and on I went.

All very haughty stuff from me here , particularly at this hour ;-O

Eirebear

Baz, i'm sure the debate which your images tend to start will keep going around, and around.
However ive just watched your slideshow, to a backing of Nick Cave's "Murder Ballads" (My go to, feeling low album) and no matter anything else, either technically, or ethically, there has always been something i have loved about your images (including the ones which started this very thread) and that is the sheer honesty and hard work which go into them.

Keep up the good work Baz.

thebaz

Zillah wrote: »

By taking a picture of a person in such a state, are you not robbing just a little bit of dignity from someone who already has so little left?

possibly , but that was not the aim , just shot what i saw in front of me in the midst of the Celtic Tiger - with nearly all these subjects i would have engaged - 2 that i know , are now dead - and i had an exhibition in there memory . The price of robbing dignity, is that it may wake up some of the "After Hour" type mentality that all junkies and travellers are scum - maybe some will see people - thats the price , none of these were done for commercial gain - but in some small way it may actually have returned a small amount of dignity - hopefully -

life is full of ups and downs and anyone can end on the streets -ive come close myself