Torres and babel or nani and anderson?

Cyrus

Just a quick one, now united and liverpool have done their major spending which two would you pick (i know both teams have different needs but disregard that)

For me (and i am a biased liverpool fan) i would take torres (almost the finished article, established international, his teams top scorer for the past 5 years in la liga) and babel (already has 14 full caps to his name and massive potential, van basten holds him in very high regard)

over nani and anderson.

Your thoughts?

Thanx 4 The Fish

My thoughts are that Man U fans will go for the Man U fans and Liverpool fans will say the other pair.

For this season I reckon Torres and Babel, not due to Babel but just because Torres is more or less guaranteed to be playing regularly next season, is a proven player and more or less the finished article, massively rated by every manager who has had him and most top pros who have seen him.

jank

Torres and Babel for me too although it will take both a while to settle

Mitch Connor

Would it not be a better comparrison to assume United will get Tevez and do nani and tevez vs babel and torres.

Not like you are going to really get anything from it - seeing the players actually play in the premier league would be a good starting point too.

Obviously I would take Nani (already banging them in for the portugal national side) and Tevez (proved he can handled the premiership and the style of play) over the liverpool two.

Also, i'd take Anderson over Benyoun or whatever his name is, as he has a lot more potentail (but obviously needs to prove it, while Yossi has)

Blowfish

I'd actually take Tevez and Hargreaves over all of them.

Cyrus

i left hargreaves out as liverpool got macherano in january and he is comparable

united have yet to sign tevez

U cant just disregard the needs. United fans will pick Nani and Anerson because they have faith that Fergie and Queroz can develop them into world calss players while Pool fans will go for Torres and Babel cos they are two players strengthening the positions needed strengthening.


There should be 2 polls. Tevez (assumedly) and Hargreaves vs Benayoun and Torres (the 2 established players each team bought) and Babel and Lucas vs Nani and Anderson. (the 2 sets of players with potential who are only somewhat proven)

Cyrus

Cyrus wrote:

i left hargreaves out as liverpool got macherano in january and he is comparable

united have yet to sign tevez

Oooooooooooookay. United signed Larsson on short term in January too. We're dealing with this transfer window????????

raven136

3 out of the top 4 have done really well this transfer window,presuming chelsea get alves which they might not.malouda and alves is comparable with any wingers in the league.

Babel looks an amazing prospect as does anderson while tevez and torres should both really improve their respective teams firepower.Lucas and Nani could develop into world class players.

Lets just put aside the who's better debates and be happy that the premiership has genuine world class players and prospects playing there next season and hope for a good battle for the league from day one

marco_polo

I imagine that the Liverpool duo will see slightly more game time this season, but nani and Anderson are both great prospects.

Is this poll really just a sneaky way of finding out how many liverpool and united fans are on boards?

Blowfish

Cyrus wrote:

i left hargreaves out as liverpool got macherano in january and he is comparable

united have yet to sign tevez

So what happened to the part about disregarding the teams? I was being completely objective.

At the moment, Hargreaves and Tevez would be the ones I would go for, in a year or two the answer might be very different though

Cyrus

Deleted User wrote:

Oooooooooooookay. United signed Larsson on short term in January too. We're dealing with this transfer window????????

okay how about this, liverpool wouldnt touch hargraves with yours as they have sissoko, alonso and mascherano (on an 18mth loan with first option to buy)

Thanx 4 The Fish

Keep it on topic or this thread will be closed.

PHB

Torres and Babel defo in those two choices, no doubt about it, the two United kids are still kids, while Liverpool bought only one kid, simple maths really

But would the real question is,

Torres + Babel + Benyoun + X(another signing)

or

Tevez + Hargreaves + Nani + Anderson

or if you don't want to do that, at least compare,

Hargreaves + Nani + Anderson
to
Torres + Babel + Benyoun

In which case, I'd pick the former.

Cyrus

Cyrus wrote:

okay how about this, liverpool wouldnt touch hargraves with yours as they have sissoko, alonso and mascherano (on an 18mth loan with first option to buy)

Thats irrelevent. U made a poll about summer signings and now youre trying to alter it to suit your point of view. This isnt about which players from each team u would or wouldnt take, its about the signings made this summer............:rolleyes: :rolleyes:


LOL - I also wouldnt touch Hargraves cos I dont know who he is

RE*AC*TOR

Deleted User wrote:

There should be 2 polls. Tevez (assumedly) and Hargreaves vs Benayoun and Torres (the 2 established players each team bought) and Babel and Lucas vs Nani and Anderson. (the 2 sets of players with potential who are only somewhat proven)

That would be much better, and a fairer comparison of like vs like.

I've seen nothing of Anderson, and a small amount of Nani. I've seen a small amount of Babel and a small amount of Lucas. Babel and Lucas are very direct players, very physical, but also quick (especially Babel). They fit more into what I understand is Benitez's style.

Nani is a dancer. Dancers can work in the PL - look at Cristiano Ronaldo. Anderson, I know nothing of.

Hargreaves, I know people will disagree, is a bit of a journeyman footballer. UTD paid WAAAAAAY over the odds for someone distinctly average. Tevez is world class, in fact he has the potential to be way better than even his good spell at WH last year.

However, Torres at his best vs Tevez at his best, I'd still go with Torres. Torres is lightning fast, strong, can head etc etc. That's just me, I always thought Torres was the way to go, even going back to the Torres or Villa debates.

Benayoun, anytime he's played against Liverpool (this is when I've seen him most), he's run us ragged. He certainly has talent, ball control and pace. In a way remind me of Oyvind Leonharddsen (sic). Obviously for Liverpool, a player like Hargreaves would be totally surplus to requirements, so Benayoun there for me too.

Now, how long until this descends into a Liverpool V ManU penis measuring contest?

marco_polo

RE*AC*TOR wrote:

That would be much better, and a fairer comparison of like vs like.

I've seen nothing of Anderson, and a small amount of Nani. I've seen a small amount of Babel and a small amount of Lucas. Babel and Lucas are very direct players, very physical, but also quick (especially Babel). They fit more into what I understand is Benitez's style.

Nani is a dancer. Dancers can work in the PL - look at Cristiano Ronaldo. Anderson, I know nothing of.

Hargreaves, I know people will disagree, is a bit of a journeyman footballer. UTD paid WAAAAAAY over the odds for someone distinctly average. Tevez is world class, in fact he has the potential to be way better than even his good spell at WH last year.

However, Torres at his best vs Tevez at his best, I'd still go with Torres. Torres is lightning fast, strong, can head etc etc. That's just me, I always thought Torres was the way to go, even going back to the Torres or Villa debates.

Benayoun, anytime he's played against Liverpool (this is when I've seen him most), he's run us ragged. He certainly has talent, ball control and pace. In a way remind me of Oyvind Leonharddsen (sic). Obviously for Liverpool, a player like Hargreaves would be totally surplus to requirements, so Benayoun there for me too.

Now, how long until this descends into a Liverpool V ManU penis measuring contest?

I'll get the measuring tape:D

Mitch Connor

RE*AC*TOR wrote:

That would be much better, and a fairer comparison of like vs like.

I've seen nothing of Anderson, and a small amount of Nani. I've seen a small amount of Babel and a small amount of Lucas. Babel and Lucas are very direct players, very physical, but also quick (especially Babel). They fit more into what I understand is Benitez's style.

Nani is a dancer. Dancers can work in the PL - look at Cristiano Ronaldo. Anderson, I know nothing of.

Hargreaves, I know people will disagree, is a bit of a journeyman footballer. UTD paid WAAAAAAY over the odds for someone distinctly average. Tevez is world class, in fact he has the potential to be way better than even his good spell at WH last year.

However, Torres at his best vs Tevez at his best, I'd still go with Torres. Torres is lightning fast, strong, can head etc etc. That's just me, I always thought Torres was the way to go, even going back to the Torres or Villa debates.

Benayoun, anytime he's played against Liverpool (this is when I've seen him most), he's run us ragged. He certainly has talent, ball control and pace. In a way remind me of Oyvind Leonharddsen (sic). Obviously for Liverpool, a player like Hargreaves would be totally surplus to requirements, so Benayoun there for me too.

Now, how long until this descends into a Liverpool V ManU penis measuring contest?

I completely disagree with you regarding Hargreaves, if for nothing else - how do you manage to describe a player who is just just his second professional club, at the age of 26, as a journey man footballer!?

RE*AC*TOR

RE*AC*TOR wrote:

That would be much better, and a fairer comparison of like vs like.

I've seen nothing of Anderson, and a small amount of Nani. I've seen a small amount of Babel and a small amount of Lucas. Babel and Lucas are very direct players, very physical, but also quick (especially Babel). They fit more into what I understand is Benitez's style.

Nani is a dancer. Dancers can work in the PL - look at Cristiano Ronaldo. Anderson, I know nothing of.

Hargreaves, I know people will disagree, is a bit of a journeyman footballer. UTD paid WAAAAAAY over the odds for someone distinctly average. Tevez is world class, in fact he has the potential to be way better than even his good spell at WH last year.

However, Torres at his best vs Tevez at his best, I'd still go with Torres. Torres is lightning fast, strong, can head etc etc. That's just me, I always thought Torres was the way to go, even going back to the Torres or Villa debates.

Benayoun, anytime he's played against Liverpool (this is when I've seen him most), he's run us ragged. He certainly has talent, ball control and pace. In a way remind me of Oyvind Leonharddsen (sic). Obviously for Liverpool, a player like Hargreaves would be totally surplus to requirements, so Benayoun there for me too.

Now, how long until this descends into a Liverpool V ManU penis measuring contest?

I completely agree, Hargreaves plays a position that Liverpool have a lot of cover for. BUT journeymen are guys who float around (Anelka, for example) between clubs and underachieve. Hargreaves has been at Bayern his whole professional career and been very succesful, and hes in his mid 20's. U may not rate him highly but "journeyman" is the wrong word.

Personally Benayoun for me, like Hargreaves for Liverpool, wouldnt get near the starting 11 for United.

Torres vs Tevez is up for debate and a matter of opinion. I dont see much between the 2, when United were linked with both I still was hopin for Eto'o!!

I think the other important thing to consider is that United and Liverpool play very different styles of football meaning they require very different styles of player. United involve wingers in a lot of their play so guys like Nani and Anderson (who can also play wing) and Tevez (who can drop to the left) are good for us. United desperately needed a midfielder with bite and IMO we got that in Hargreaves. Time will tell since neither of us have seen him in the Unites system. Liverpools style is suited to the likes of Benayoun and Torres in particular. Havent seen Lucas and only a bit of Babel (who was playing centre mid the 2 times i saw him) so wont comment.

RE*AC*TOR

Tauren wrote:

I completely disagree with you regarding Hargreaves, if for nothing else - how do you manage to describe a player who is just just his second professional club, at the age of 26, as a journey man footballer!?

Ok, fine, he's not a journeyman, he's just mediocre.

Mitch Connor

RE*AC*TOR wrote:

Ok, fine, he's not a journeyman, he's just mediocre.

RRrrriiiiiiiiiight. No point continuing that line of discussion so.

PHB

like Hargreaves for Liverpool, wouldnt get near the starting 11 for United.

I think within a month he'll establish himself ahead of Carrick. Hargreaves has more medals than most of the people at Liverpool or United (bar the old guys).
People can think he's crap all they want, but if they do, he will astound you.

Owen Hargreaves:
* German Bundesliga: 2001, 2003, 2005, 2006
* UEFA Champions League: 2001
* Intercontinental Cup: 2001
* DFB Pokal: 2003, 2005, 2006
* Premiere Ligapokal 2004
* 2001 European U-21 Player of the Year

PHB

PHB wrote:

I think within a month he'll establish himself ahead of Carrick. Hargreaves has more medals than most of the people at Liverpool or United (bar the old guys).
People can think he's crap all they want, but if they do, he will astound you.

Owen Hargreaves:
* German Bundesliga: 2001, 2003, 2005, 2006
* UEFA Champions League: 2001
* Intercontinental Cup: 2001
* DFB Pokal: 2003, 2005, 2006
* Premiere Ligapokal 2004
* 2001 European U-21 Player of the Year

I agree. I rate him a lot. I think he's gonna be a great buy for us.


I was talking about Benayoun. I think Hargreaves is highly underrated by a lot of people in here. Judgement should be reserved until he actually kicks a ball at Old Trafford.

Mitch Connor

No, clearly judgement should be made based on Hargreaves playing left midfield and right back for England.

Tauren

Tauren wrote:

No, clearly judgement should be made based on Hargreaves playing left midfield and right back for England.

Again i completely agree. Most of the people who are running their mouth about him either A) Are doing so solely cos he has joined United, which is stupid are doing so cos all theyve ever seen of him is when he played these positions for England (they obviously havent seen his lats few games for England either...) or C) have seen his in defensive midfield for Bayern and England and for some reason still insist that he's mediocre despite his stats on the Opta index being very very good.

Jonny Arson

I'd go with Torres and Babel anyday and I'm on the United side of the fence! We all know Torres, what I've seen of babel he has impressed me. For United, I saw Nani in Euro u21s and he did not impress me, saw nothing to suggest he's going to be a great player for United. Anderson? I never even heard of the guy! Probably did see him play for Porto on the odd occasion but the fact I don't recognise him maybe says something

BTW Hargreaves is horribly average, he was carried in a great Bayern side over the years

marco_polo

Deleted User wrote:

Again i completely agree. Most of the people who are running their mouth about him either A) Are doing so solely cos he has joined United, which is stupid are doing so cos all theyve ever seen of him is when he played these positions for England (they obviously havent seen his lats few games for England either...) or C) have seen his in defensive midfield for Bayern and England and for some reason still insist that he's mediocre despite his stats on the Opta index being very very good.

He is a good defensive midfielder, I have my doubts as to whether he is he is much more than that. But given the amount of money paid for him, while he does strenghten the squad considerably does he bring a massive improvement to the first team over say Carrick?

PHB

Totally different styles of players. He adds steel to the United midfield. He isn't one dimensional, isn't just a copy of Makelele, he is a box-to-box defensive midfielder, something which is rare these days, and something which will add to the United team immensely.

Pepe LeFrits

Nani and Anderson. Well, Anderson really. You can never know for sure but from what I've seen of him, he's going to be absolutely class, and is a very good player already.

Torres is a good player but isn't this amazing world-beater that some people are making him out to be. I've seen as much of Nani as I have of Babel, which is shag all, but the things I've heard about Babel haven't been entirely positive.

PHB

Oh, I thought we were talking about just for next season, now that's a totally different debate

siochain

as a pool fan I'm seriously concerned about Manu getting Tevez. For me he is the best pre season capture.

Tusky

Pointless debate. Both teams need different types of players...but I'll humour you.

Liverpool

---

Torres
Lucas
Babel
Benayoun

Utd

---

Hargreaves
Nani
Anderson

I would definitely go for what Liverpool have bought. However if Utd get Tevez I would have to reconsider. I dont think that he is the type of player Utd should be after as he is very similiar to Rooney and I think he is slightly over rated but I still think hes a class act.

Theres a big doubt over Nani, he may be a flop and may not adapt to the playing style of the league like Ronaldo has. All I know of Anderson is youtube videos.

marco_polo

PHB wrote:

Totally different styles of players. He adds steel to the United midfield. He isn't one dimensional, isn't just a copy of Makelele, he is a box-to-box defensive midfielder, something which is rare these days, and something which will add to the United team immensely.

Must agree he has got a phenomenal engine alright. On a slightly different topic what do you thing Carricks prospects are for the future at OT? Squad player? I can't imagine he is seen as the heir to Paul Scholes when he retires.

Cyrus

marco_polo wrote:

Must agree he has got a phenomenal engine alright. On a slightly different topic what do you thing Carricks prospects are for the future at OT? Squad player? I can't imagine he is seen as the heir to Paul Scholes when he retires.

no matter how he plays fergie didnt pay 17m for a squad player, he'll start more often than not

Mitch Connor

I think we wil have a 3 man midfield - Hargreaves as the DM, Carrick as the CM and either Scholes or Anderson as the AM. Up front you play Ronaldo, Rooney and Tevez (if we ever sign him)

Cyrus

sounds good but they will need a ball each

Cyrus

Cyrus wrote:

sounds good but they will need a ball each

Is that an attempt at humour?

Cyrus

yeah but you wouldnt get it

and good one about my miss typing of hargreaves, my sides were splitting

especially getting corrected on the quality of my typed english by somebody like you :cool:

Cyrus

Cyrus wrote:

yeah but you wouldnt get it

and good one about my miss typing of hargreaves, my sides were splitting

especially getting corrected on the quality of my typed english by somebody like you :cool:

Oh I got it. U should do comedy for a living, you're REALLY good at it. :rolleyes:

Oh u know me so well. Somebody like me!!! i love the way u try to get personal when u dont know me!!



Anyway, back to the thread at hand......

jesus_thats_gre

Sorry Cyrus but this thread just should not have been started.. Impossible for more than a few to be remain impartial.

heyjude

Torres is by far the most high profile of the four players, the oldest and the most expensive and so probably will face the most pressure and expectation. So, on the basis of what these players have already achieved that would give Torres/Babel the edge.

Babel, Nani and Anderson are several years younger and less experienced. There is also the issue of comparing Torres and Babel, who are strikers with Nani, a winger and Anderson, who is mainly an attacking midfielder. You can judge strikers by the number of goals they score, judging attacking midfield players is more difficult since they depend on their teams' strikers to have a real measurable impact.

But all four players face one common challenge, they are joining clubs which expect to compete and win every competition they enter, they are all joining much larger clubs and clubs at which, they will have to earn a place on the pitch. Torres, Nani and Anderson will also have to learn English, even though they have native speakers at their new clubs and they will all have to settle into life in a new and very different country. They will also have to deal with sitting on the bench, since Benitez and Ferguson will be rotating players in and out of the starting lineups throughout the season, so it may come down to, who can have most impact from the bench.

I think it could be 3-4 years before you can answer this question with certainty, but I think both clubs would secretly admit that they'd be happy enough if one of these two signings goes on to be a huge star.

Cyrus

Deleted User wrote:

Oh I got it. U should do comedy for a living, you're REALLY good at it. :rolleyes:

Oh u know me so well. Somebody like me!!! i love the way u try to get personal when u dont know me!!



Anyway, back to the thread at hand......

i know more than enough already

PHB

On a slightly different topic what do you thing Carricks prospects are for the future at OT? Squad player? I can't imagine he is seen as the heir to Paul Scholes when he retires.

I think Fergie is planning on modelling his European game around Milan's 4-3-3 system, with two deep lying midfielders, one defensive (Gattuso or Hargreaves )and one attacking(Pirlo or Carrick), and one attacking midfielder (Scholes or eventually Anderson)

In terms of the league, I think it will be a lot of rotation, with different partnerships of Hargreaves/Carrick, Hargreaves/Scholes, Carrick/Scholes

yabadabado

marco_polo wrote:

He is a good defensive midfielder, I have my doubts as to whether he is he is much more than that. But given the amount of money paid for him, while he does strenghten the squad considerably does he bring a massive improvement to the first team over say Carrick?

surely that is the reason fergie bought hargreves to be a dm with the attacking players at united he wont have to be much more,protect the back 4 and add some bite and aggression to midfield and let more attack minded players do there thing.sure mascherno has that job at liverpool and he wud cost about the same amount if liverpool buy him.and i think most people wud agree both fans wud be happy if their club had got these players

Sajan

raven136 wrote:

Lets just put aside the who's better debates and be happy that the premiership has genuine world class players and prospects playing there next season and hope for a good battle for the league from day one

And that my friend is the correct answer. I don't care who got the better deal as long as we get something similiar to La Liga this year. If that doesn't happen Pele and Maradona could be playing for Liverpool and United next season and I won't watch it. The premiership needs Liverpool to challenge this year.