bubble in WSOP ME

Ace2007

i'm assuming u folded and made the money? if so congrats

Chucky the tree

Ace2007 wrote:

u play in the fitz at all??

if you do, most ppl there will back me up on what i say - about how i play in tournaments. i'm a VERY tight player (in freezeouts, or tournments with one rebuy/top up)

if i have AA or KK, i'm more than happy to limp in, even flat call a raise, and see what happens on the flop.

O and i hate AQ - so i nearly always fold that.

This has to be a leveling.

LuckyLloyd

This post has been deleted.

Jayminator

Bubble time = fun time... Raise like a fudder mucker and stop being a big nancy about it. Next hand when you have 10 7 off raise again and now you ve stolen 2 pots..

Shorties are hanging on for any Ace. Only the big stacks u need to worry about.

JJ so vulnerable but at bubble time ya go for it man.. please......

Tar.Aldarion

cooker3 wrote:

I disagree with dev, how about that.

Oh no, you didn't.

Ace2007

well as seen from most posts on here - so was gus hasens call with 22, but isn't he chip leader, so basically if it works for me, wheater good/bad, i really don't care... OP asked for opinions and i gave mine.. and my reasoning for it..

Washout

LuckyLloyd wrote:

We're now getting off topic. I'm not trying to be smart - but you send like a horrendous weak tighty. The above is just very incorrect.

he sounds like me when i first started playing if anyone can recall LOL.

Ace2007 i cant see how you can ever get really deep into the big money playing the way you do. u sound like the kind of player who is just happy to make it just inside the bubble.

i recommend Harrington on Holdem as a must read for you.

Mr E

Tar.Aldarion wrote:

Oh no, you didn't.

With silent second 'd' and compulsory finger wag.

sikes

this is a joke, right? If we are discussing correct poker theory, unless you satellited your way into the ME, you should be raising as normal. You are 25BBs deep, thats being deepstacked in a MTT. However, if you satellited your way in, arguments could be made for a fold, I guess, depending on the average stack.

Limping would be out of this world retarded.

ocallagh

If BR'd just play the hand in isolation to the best of your ability.

If you are taking a shot, are a winning player, and the prize jump is considerable compared to your bankroll, then folding is fine near the bubble even if your range is slightly ahead of your opponent IMO. I'd raise to 3BB and might fold depending on stacks and ranges.

The heart of the problem is whether or not taking a shot is a good idea.

nicnicnic

push if Gus is at the table and still to act

Ace2007

Washout wrote:

he sounds like me when i first started playing if anyone can recall LOL.

Ace2007 i cant see how you can ever get really deep into the big money playing the way you do. u sound like the kind of player who is just happy to make it just inside the bubble.

i recommend Harrington on Holdem as a must read for you.

well i have, not on here to argue with any of yis on here.. as for the book, yes i shall be raeding it some time , if it ever stops raining i might go into town and buy it...

CaptainNemo

Ace2007 wrote:

well i have, not on here to argue with any of yis on here.. as for the book, yes i shall be raeding it some time , if it ever stops raining i might go into town and buy it...

I think folding or limping are too weak here, we have 25BBs and I can't see any reason not to raise to 3xBB and see what happens. Most times you will just take down the blinds. If you get reraised all in you have a real decision to make. If you're in via a satellite as sikes said (and as the majority of players will be) then I would probably fold everything except AA and KK in that spot because yes, the 10k/20k or whatever it is would be a huge deal for me and having 20BBs on the bubble is more than comfortable enough to continue with.

The only circumstances under which I would consider open folding this hand would be if we are on the bubble of a satellite tournament, let's say if there are 10 left with 8 seats being given and 4 people have shorter stacks than me.

connie147

I'm raising here too. I actually like Valors line but maybe I wouldnt put so much at risk. We've 25bb's, so lets say we've 50k, blinds 1k-2k with 200 ante, so 4,800 in pot. I think a raise to 12k- 13k is enough to send out a message to the short stacks that your calling a RR all-in, while the big stacks might be slow to bluff you when youve 25% of your stack in the middle. Interesting spot.

And Ace2007, that system your using re not raising ANY hands pre-flop is a recipe for disaster, with a catital d---Disaster!!
Maybe your getting lucky at the moment, but as sure as theres shiite in a ducks arse,you'll be a losing player in the long run.
Take the advice that fellow boardsters like LLoyd is giving you.They're top tournament players and you could learn a lot from them if your willing to.

Ace2007

connie147 wrote:

I'm raising here too. I actually like Valors line but maybe I wouldnt put so much at risk. We've 25bb's, so lets say we've 50k, blinds 1k-2k with 200 ante, so 4,800 in pot. I think a raise to 12k- 13k is enough to send out a message to the short stacks that your calling a RR all-in, while the big stacks might be slow to bluff you when youve 25% of your stack in the middle. Interesting spot.

And Ace2007, that system your using re not raising ANY hands pre-flop is a recipe for disaster, with a catital d---Disaster!!
Maybe your getting lucky at the moment, but as sure as theres shiite in a ducks arse,you'll be a losing player in the long run.
Take the advice that fellow boardsters like LLoyd is giving you.They're top tournament players and you could learn a lot from them if your willing to.

ok, maybe of second thoughts, i do raise sometimes, but i do normally limp in, if someone raises, i then decide - do i reraise and show my strength or limp in and take it from the flop.

As for takin advice, i'm open to all opinions, as i've just recently started taking tournaments seriously,(hence gave up cash), my game will change as time goes on. I thank you for ur opinions.

shoutman

I really can not contemplate how and decent player could limp or fold here! Presumably if you are playing the WSOP and you are a decent player you are going to be playing in the event more then once, and its well documented that it is a big lottery of a tournement anyway, folding or limp folding to get X2 your buyin back is useless imo, even over the long term of your WSOP life it is -ev.

Standard raise fold to much resistance if you are looking for the money, and 25bb is certaintly enough to pressurise people on your table, conditions permitting of course.

Ace2007

if you won ur way into the event, and have the chance to win 20K, i think that the OP, values 20K alot, i do understand that some ppl, see that if y buy in for 10K, then 20K is nothing (which is ture), and if you win ur seat in a satellite, ur more or less freeroling.. but 20K is 20K.....

kryogen

Ace2007 wrote:

well i never raise preflop anyway no matter what i have - therefore limping in and seeing what happens..would be my aim- any over cards and any bets and i fold, if a low flop comes, bet - if ur reraised - then fold, if u just want to get in the money...

tell me your joking! or that you are in fact, a joke.

Glowingmind

OK, i've never played in a tourney with a large buy-in, but in this situation, surely raising to 3/4BBs will be enough to take down the hand uncontested more often than not given that the range people are likely to put up resistance with will be significantly lower. Obviously this is dependent on the stack sizes of the players left to act at the table, and also on how they've been playing.
If i'm raising from mid position at this stage in a tourney, most folks who have played with me will expect me to have a strong hand. If there's someone with 6-12 BBs left to act i may reassess, dependant on how likely i think they are to shove.

sikes

smilingatyou

just a few questions for the OP. has every1 folded to you? how many still to act, who have you covered? average stack at this stage? image? are the blinds short stacked.

if you have a loose image I would def raise provided the players that have me covered is 3 or less. definite chance to steal/ gain your raise on the flop.
if the blind is shortstacked i would call the RR and would expect one if i had the LAG image

patmac

Ace2007 wrote:

well i never raise preflop anyway no matter what i have - therefore limping in and seeing what happens..would be my aim- any over cards and any bets and i fold, if a low flop comes, bet - if ur reraised - then fold, if u just want to get in the money...

There's a €25 pub tourney in Ballinasloe that I used to play in, lots of people there play like that you should check it out.

Jesus Wept

nicnicnic wrote:

push if Gus is at the table and still to act

Call if clint shoves in over the top without cards


There are some great minds posting on this thread.

Lafortezza

Try to keep on the originall JJ near bubble topic please. If you want to talk about the way a particular person plays then take it to the BB sticky or something. ty.

Scouser in Dub

Ste05 wrote:

Interesting line, I think my 2.5BB raise might have been a bit weak, if we are raised it's more likely to be a bluff and so I would have to instantly call the all-in, but if I take your line then there's no way someone is going to bluff, so I can get away from the hand knowing I was beaten.... nh wp

Isn't there the possibility that a big stack behind realises we are leaving enough behind to fold into the money and push over us?

Jesus Wept

Raise a normal amount, take it from there.

If your only options are raise or fold, and they aren't, you are probably better off folding, cause going awww-in, is pretty pointless with your stack size.

If you see your only options as raise or fold, move down levels.

Marq

DeVore wrote:

Critiscise at will...

Ok. That's a terrible way to play the hand, unless you have some serial raiser somewhere on your left and you plan to limp-push. Even that isn't as good as just opening for a standard amount like 3 BB's.

You have a hand in the top five of all hold'em starting hands. First prize is over 600 places away but if you get to it it's worth 8 million. You're at a stage of the tourney (the bubble) when everyone is playing cagey and people aren't splashing around in pots. Limping is silly.

oooops

The-Rigger wrote:

Raise a normal amount, take it from there.

If your only options are raise or fold, and they aren't, you are probably better off folding, cause going awww-in, is pretty pointless with your stack size.

If you see your only options as raise or fold, move down levels.

Move down from the WSOP bubble ??????
Please bear in mind it's 20 K and you on boards 90% of you win your seat I would say...so it's a big profit and also equal to 1st prize in most middle to big buyins in ireland..

The firm conviction of some of the guys on this thread interest me somewhat.
reasons for playing JJ right on the bubble from mid position.?...
you win blinds and antes ....outcome +4.5 K approx. (after you risk 4 to 5k yourself) you have to consider on average bigger stacks pushing you off...
I would not raise with these if I wasn't locking horns with a reraiser.(call it a leak if you will)

reasons for folding (or limping).

guaranteed 20K....remember also this is a unique situation you find yourself in, it's not an everyday game of poker in your club nor is it a poker theory question......once 20k secured (and spent in your mind) its time to get busy.
I woulld bet Donnacha has folded some fine hands the last hourslast night..


I posted this for two reasons, I was shocked by the guy pushing with it and thought to myself the 20k was probably not a gating factor for him, so I was wondering if it were for you guys.....It IS for me.
plus, I think ye needed a debate whilst the rain clattered off yer windows...


I sure as hell don't think I'm a worse player than one or two who have posted on this but, for 20K , Im hitting the muck until the bubble.....

thx for the replies, I think im a lot less wealthy than a lot of you guys...
my new car cost me 17k and that hurt.....(move down motors?)

rgds

ooopsolks

LuckyLloyd

This post has been deleted.

BuChan

i don't think this is even a remotely close decision. there's only 5 from the bubble and you have 25BB. if you make a standard raise and a standard cbet and lose you still have 10BB which you could use to fold your way into the money and be happy that you'd done your best to make the big score.

oooops

LuckyLloyd wrote:

I wouldn't.

guess he knows



The guy pushing JJ here definately was concerned about the 20k and undoubtadly was scared of going out. But because he was obviously not thinking straight and unable to consider what type of hand was calling a 25BB push - he stuck the tank in. A horrendous play. But one definately produced as a direct result of him being scared money.

Is that not obvious?

this post contradicts itself.....since when does scared money go ALL IN on the bubble in mid position.?? thats brave if you ask me (foolish if yer you and I) . I reckon he pushed hoping to double and wasn't worried about the 20k at all.

oooops

BuChan wrote:

i don't think this is even a remotely close decision. there's only 5 from the bubble and you have 25BB. if you make a standard raise and a standard cbet and lose you still have 10BB which you could use to fold your way into the money and be happy that you'd done your best to make the big score.

BUT you want to make the 20k (prioirty 1)
AND at least still have your stack in reasonable shape......
10 bbs left leaves you with no play afterwards and your chance of using your post bubble confidence reduced to push and hope......


no? I bet my fingerprints are different to yours...

Hitman Actual

oooops wrote:

Move down from the WSOP bubble ??????
Please bear in mind it's 20 K and you on boards 90% of you win your seat I would say...so it's a big profit and also equal to 1st prize in most middle to big buyins in ireland..

The firm conviction of some of the guys on this thread interest me somewhat.
reasons for playing JJ right on the bubble from mid position.?...
you win blinds and antes ....outcome +4.5 K approx. (after you risk 4 to 5k yourself) you have to consider on average bigger stacks pushing you off...
I would not raise with these if I wasn't locking horns with a reraiser.(call it a leak if you will)

reasons for folding (or limping).

guaranteed 20K....remember also this is a unique situation you find yourself in, it's not an everyday game of poker in your club nor is it a poker theory question......once 20k secured (and spent in your mind) its time to get busy.
I woulld bet Donnacha has folded some fine hands the last hourslast night..


I posted this for two reasons, I was shocked by the guy pushing with it and thought to myself the 20k was probably not a gating factor for him, so I was wondering if it were for you guys.....It IS for me.
plus, I think ye needed a debate whilst the rain clattered off yer windows...


I sure as hell don't think I'm a worse player than one or two who have posted on this but, for 20K , Im hitting the muck until the bubble.....

thx for the replies, I think im a lot less wealthy than a lot of you guys...
my new car cost me 17k and that hurt.....(move down motors?)

rgds

ooopsolks

If the money means that much to the player, then absolutely, he should fold into the money. I've no problem with a player doing that at all.

But from a poker POV, both limping and pushing here are bad. And if I was there, I'd hope that I could play the hand without the money clouding my decision, and play the hand like I would in the Fitz EOM or whatever. I'd like to think I wouldn't wuss out and fold (or limp), but I won't know until the situation arises.

Samba

Never mind the EOM game, id play this hand like it was the 10 buck freezeout.

You are playing a tourney, the fact that it's the WSOP ME is irrelevant imo.

You will never play your A game if too much emphasis is placed on potential monetary gain.

THEIRISHMOB

So close to the bubble I limp and try see a cheap flop.
If I get raised then I push All-in.
U've got a big hand here, never an option to fold.

LuckyLloyd

This post has been deleted.

phantom_lord

I'd be raising an uno card and the rules of bridge at this point of the tourny.

Samba

if you are going to limp just fold PF tbh. You are asking for the blinds to come into the hand and crack your jacks for free. Come a 9 high flop for instance, you really will have no clue where you stand against the blinds, are you prepared

Limping is suicidal.

Make a standard raise and evaluate the situation post flop, as has been mentioned, if you are being asked to play for stacks you can let go of your hand.

Limping would be an atrocity.

At this late stage of the tourney many shorties will be looking to get it all in with any pair 22+ make a standard raise and give action to shorties while shying away from the big tanks.

phantom_lord

oooops wrote:

I woulld bet Donnacha has raised some very poor hands the last hourslast night..

fyp.

GrangeUtd

Watkinson raised blind to 150,000 every hand, forcing players clinging to chips near the bubble to go all-in to call him. Watkinson did this all fifteen hands of hand-for-hand play, putting on a textbook display of big-stack bubble play.


I like his style!! bullying and telling them all the deal!!

Jesus Wept

GrangeUtd wrote:

Watkinson raised blind to 150,000 every hand, forcing players clinging to chips near the bubble to go all-in to call him. Watkinson did this all fifteen hands of hand-for-hand play, putting on a textbook display of big-stack bubble play.


I like his style!! bullying and telling them all the deal!!

dunno if that's true, sounds like a huge overraise seeing as the blinds only start at 4k-8k, I'd of shoved in over the top of Watkinson a few times if I had the right stack size.

GrangeUtd

sorry first line read "With eight short stacks surrounding him,"

Jesus Wept

That's ok, thanks for the info

Tar.Aldarion

So What Beat The Jj?

mewso

I would play this as usual with a standard raise. Possibly fold if a big stack pushes. What Watkinson did is a no brainer if you are surrouned by shorties imo. and I see it hailed as genius far too often.