Rezoning for new Gaelscoil in Mayfield refused

professore

Its So Easy wrote:

Ah for gods sake. you're going to have to emigrate because the school won't be built.

Whatever you say.

Its So Easy

professore wrote:

Whatever you say.

Well tis a bit over the top to be fair.

flo8s967qjh0nd

Professore, I don't mean to be dumping on you, you seem to be getting a good enough slagging already on this thread (big hug)!

But, you mention there should be a very good reason for developing on green space in the city. You've got to realise that one person's good reason is another person's excuse.
You've got to accept that some people dont have children, have no interest in developing green space to build a school, have other things higher up their agenda than schools and don't give a toss about where your kids go to school!
Now, I'd stress thats NOT my opinion. But its a fact of life nonetheless. And these people have a vote too.

\m/_(>_<)_\m/

professore wrote:

Unfortunately there was ferocious resistance from the local Residents Association

surly the residents have a huge say in this, in-fact i would say they should have the deciding say in this development, after all it is on there doors step, and long long after your kids and mine have left to school they will have to put up with this development.

beside its a sin to build on community green areas just to suite a small part of the community (parents with kids in that school)

Raskolnikov

\m/_(>_<)_\m/ wrote:

in-fact i would say they should have the deciding say in this development

If you gave residents the deciding vote in planning, nothing would get built in this country.

\m/_(>_<)_\m/

Raskolnikov wrote:

If you gave residents the deciding vote in planning, nothing would get built in this country.

well their ya go, one good reason to give residents the deciding vote in planning.

Intransigents

Firstly ‘professsore’ you presents the fact as you see them, I will present the facts as they are. The Gaeil scoil is building on land acquired by stealth – stolen in other words. This land belongs not to any one person but to the public. The Dept. Of Education will not build on land that is in dispute. Read their rules. If I came and built in your back garden I am sure you would not object! Right yeah!

“and this is the first site they have found in that time.” Wrong, you were offered Tinkers Cross and you turned it down. And you have been offered 5 subsequent sites. All better and more appropriate than our Tank Field. All your are after is the address. Your principal said on the radio that we are now condemned to 30 years in pre-fabs – wrong in 2 years time you could be in a beautiful brand new state of the art school in any of 5 sites. On one site the school would have access to a 25 meter pool and a fully equipped gymnasium. But not good enough bad address.

“ferocious resistance from the local Residents Association (it is not at all obvious to me how many residents were actually against the development, as many have children going to the school” Many, how many, 8 that is all. If that is a lot you must have a very small school. Montenotte has the highest age ratio in Cork city, twice some areas. It will have as a result the lowest school going population in the city. Most of the students come in from outside the area. I know a lot of the people personally and they live in Glanmire, Whites Cross, Ballyvolane, etc. At one of the meetings the principal was not able to say how many students came from outside Montenotte. Either he is incompetent or a fool. (don't answer that) I asked the principal, where my kids go to school, if he could get a list of the number students and where they were from, he told me about 2 minutes. The principal knows that most of the kids a bussed in.

We do not need another school in the area that is why it is not needed. There are 6 here already, there are not enough kids to go around. Mayfield Community School was built for and had 931 students when it was built. Now it has 322. The huge drop is reelected in the 6 national schools.

“the school is in limbo because of the intransigence of local residents committee” It is not in limbo, the Tank Field is not an option move on to the sites that have been offered to you and your student will not have to live in damp conditions any longer. Remember by refusing to take one of the sites, it is you who are condemning the students to years more in the pre-fabs.
Long live the Tank Field For the people of the area. - Intransigent residence.

Intransigents

" Typical Irish, "not-in-my-backyard" nonsense.

* Nuclear power, NO!
* Wind farms, NO!
* High-rise (and by high-rise, I mean anything over 3 stories), NO!
* Incinerators, NO!
* Motorways, NO!
* Gas pipelines, NO!
* etc. . . "


Lets us know where you live and we will come and build it there. Or do you not want it in you backyard? Oh I forgot, you are typical Irish.

Tank Lover

Intransigents wrote:

" Typical Irish, "not-in-my-backyard" nonsense.

* Nuclear power, NO!
* Wind farms, NO!
* High-rise (and by high-rise, I mean anything over 3 stories), NO!
* Incinerators, NO!
* Motorways, NO!
* Gas pipelines, NO!
* etc. . . "


Lets us know where you live and we will come and build it there. Or do you not want it in you backyard? Oh I forgot, you are typical Irish.

No wonder professore does not care about the Tank Field remaining a green area - he lives in Grange, so it is certainly not in his back yard. Worry about your own back yard. And leave our PARK ALONE.

Players required for 7-a-side footy
Hi

We currently have a team in division 2 of the footy.ie league in Grange on Thursday evenings and need 2-3 players especially a good keeper to play with us in the summer league.

Standards are not too high but you should have played some football before at some point

PM me if interested.

professore

Tank Lover wrote:

No wonder professore does not care about the Tank Field remaining a green area - he lives in Grange, so it is certainly not in his back yard. Worry about your own back yard. And leave our PARK ALONE.

Players required for 7-a-side footy
Hi

We currently have a team in division 2 of the footy.ie league in Grange on Thursday evenings and need 2-3 players especially a good keeper to play with us in the summer league.

Standards are not too high but you should have played some football before at some point

PM me if interested.

Wrong again - I play football in Grange and do not live on the southside.

professore

Intransigents wrote:

Firstly ‘professsore’ you presents the fact as you see them, I will present the facts as they are. The Gaeil scoil is building on land acquired by stealth – stolen in other words. This land belongs not to any one person but to the public. The Dept. Of Education will not build on land that is in dispute. Read their rules. If I came and built in your back garden I am sure you would not object! Right yeah!

“and this is the first site they have found in that time.” Wrong, you were offered Tinkers Cross and you turned it down.

No, the Dept of Education turned it down as unsuitable. The only reason it is in dispute anyway is because of objections. By the way I didn't turn down anything - as I said before I don't normally get involved in politics because I have no time (except to vote at the elections) but this is an important issue to me.

Intransigents wrote:

And you have been offered 5 subsequent sites. All better and more appropriate than our Tank Field.

Do you really think that the school management or the parents would prefer the Tank Field area where the residents association are so openly hostile, to an alternative site if one were available? In all cases, either the Dept of Education or An Bord Pleanala have ruled out the "alternative" sites. This was the only one they both approved.

Intransigents wrote:

All your are after is the address. Your principal said on the radio that we are now condemned to 30 years in pre-fabs – wrong in 2 years time you could be in a beautiful brand new state of the art school in any of 5 sites. On one site the school would have access to a 25 meter pool and a fully equipped gymnasium. But not good enough bad address.

Really? Why is it then called Gaelscoil an Gort Alainn (Mayfield Galescoil) and not Montenotte Gaelscoil? Anyone from any background is welcome and indeed children from all backgrounds attend - one of the great things about the school.

Intransigents wrote:

“ferocious resistance from the local Residents Association (it is not at all obvious to me how many residents were actually against the development, as many have children going to the school” Many, how many, 8 that is all.

They must all be in my son's class then. What a coincidence. Do you work for the CSO? Where do you get all the time to assemble these statistics? Certainly a luxury I don't have.

Intransigents wrote:

If that is a lot you must have a very small school. Montenotte has the highest age ratio in Cork city, twice some areas. It will have as a result the lowest school going population in the city. Most of the students come in from outside the area. I know a lot of the people personally and they live in Glanmire, Whites Cross, Ballyvolane, etc. At one of the meetings the principal was not able to say how many students came from outside Montenotte. Either he is incompetent or a fool. (don't answer that) I asked the principal, where my kids go to school, if he could get a list of the number students and where they were from, he told me about 2 minutes. The principal knows that most of the kids a bussed in.

Hmm why should he have these stats in his head? So as to "up" the quota from Montenotte or something? No such elitist policy exists. No they aren't - there is one 50 seater bus for kids further than 5 miles away and only because there is no closer gaelscoil. If they are bussed in why is there such a fuss about the traffic chaos, and the provision of the car park (by the way increasing the footprint of the school in order to placate residents ?)

Intransigents wrote:

We do not need another school in the area that is why it is not needed. There are 6 here already, there are not enough kids to go around. Mayfield Community School was built for and had 931 students when it was built. Now it has 322. The huge drop is reelected in the 6 national schools.

I have not the time to exhaustively investigate numbers at other schools in the area, all I can say is that numbers have been steadily increasing at the Gaelscoil.

Intransigents wrote:

“the school is in limbo because of the intransigence of local residents committee” It is not in limbo, the Tank Field is not an option move on to the sites that have been offered to you and your student will not have to live in damp conditions any longer. Remember by refusing to take one of the sites, it is you who are condemning the students to years more in the pre-fabs.
Long live the Tank Field For the people of the area. - Intransigent residence.

I said many times, I don't care where it's built as long as it's suitable. You can take your Tank Field and shove it where the sun doesn't shine as far as I'm concerned. Make sure to keep cutting the grass behind the goalpost though - it looks a lot better now than at any time in 35 years!

Tank Lover

professore wrote:

No, the Dept of Education turned it down as unsuitable. The only reason it is in dispute anyway is because of objections. By the way I didn't turn down anything - as I said before I don't normally get involved in politics because I have no time (except to vote at the elections) but this is an important issue to me.


Rang the Dept of Education today. They have not turned down the latest sites. They are all still open and under review. It is clear that they will not be pushed into making a decision by people who will only settle for a Montenotte address. This is an important issue to us and where we feel the intransigence of the school committee and the intransigence of Gaeilgeoirs does not give them the right to put it where 'they' want it. Put it where you have been offered. You can have your school in a matter of 2 years. We will have our Tank Field and we will all live happily ever after.

craichoe

Your opposed to someone building on the Tank Field ... HAHAHAHAHAHA ..

The crack addicts love that place !

JaneHudson

Your poll is a little bit biased, no?
This is the impression I got of it...

1) Yes I am all for education and a nice person
2) I don't agree because I am selfish
3) I don't agree because I am stupid
4) I don't agree because I am stupid and selfish with a dog
5) I don't agree because I want others to spend all day in their cars
6) I don't agree because I want humanity to end

professore

JaneHudson wrote:

Your poll is a little bit biased, no?
This is the impression I got of it...

1) Yes I am all for education and a nice person
2) I don't agree because I am selfish
3) I don't agree because I am stupid
4) I don't agree because I am stupid and selfish with a dog
5) I don't agree because I want others to spend all day in their cars
6) I don't agree because I want humanity to end

Yes, I agree, it was a mistake. Was not meant as a serious poll, more to make a point. I tried to change it afterwards but couldn't. Should have just said for, against and no opinion/don't care.

Having said that, some people appear to have voted for most of the options .... especially 3 ... so maybe wasn't too far off the mark

At this point I am sick of the whole thing, and this has been my only "active" involvement in it. The fact that people have actually gone to the trouble of researching my previous posts on other threads to try to work out where I live(!!!!) is sad and even a little bit scary. So since this is a lost battle I am not going to continue posting on it - anyone who's interested can read back through the thread to see my opinions. People blame the Government for the infrastructure deficit in this country but now I know they are only part of the problem.

pro_gnostic_8

professore wrote:

So since this is a lost battle I am not going to continue posting on it - anyone who's interested can read back through the thread to see my opinions.

Excellent!
An excellent example in supreme irony of a so-called adult debating a topic of childrens education who's ultimate response is "throwing-his-rattle-out-of-the-pram."

People have disagreed with you on this thread, dude ....... it's a discussion forum, after all, where opposing opinions are aired and debated ........ that's the nature of mature debate.

You obviously don't like the fact that some have questioned your analysis and interpretation of the issue at hand. Get over it -- and try not to get too paranoid in thinking that posters on here are stalking you (viz; "trying to work out where I live") ????

Quite frankly, nobody gives a ****!

professore

pro_gnostic_8 wrote: »

Quite frankly, nobody gives a ****!

Yes most people in this country don't give a s**t about anything or anyone except themselves. I agree with you. I have no problem with you or anyone else disagreeing with me. In fact fair play to you to be motivated enough to put forward your opinions. I completely disagree with them but I respect them even though my kids are directly affected. I hope you are as motivated when it comes to doing positive things for your community.

I have said all I am going to say, there is nothing else for me to say on the matter. An opportunity has been lost to the area.

Its So Easy

They have decided to overturn the City Councils decision several months ago to not rezone tank field in Montenotte which is disregarding their OWN INSPECTOR'S recommendation not to rezone the land. This now gives the gaelscoil which had been using the land as a temporary site the go ahead to build on the site and take away the site from people in the area.

bill_ashmount

Its So Easy wrote: »

They have decided to overturn the City Councils decision several months ago to not rezone tank field in Montenotte which is disregarding their OWN INSPECTOR'S recommendation not to rezone the land. This now gives the gaelscoil which had been using the land as a temporary site the go ahead to build on the site and take away the site from people in the area.

Typical.

It's a disgrace that this has been overturned.

Dermo123

I am not sure that the school will be built yet. The residents association are very resourceful and if there is an angle to stop it, they will find it. A legal challenge or some other obstructing mechanism may be on the cards.

I have a child going to the school since last September and the conditions are pretty poor by todays standards. I live locally and can understand how devisive an issue it is. I cannot get to the bottom of the of whether the tank field is the only available site or not but where ever you want to name the NIMBY issue will arise. The residence association was only really formed when the idea of the school being built was first muted. Before that nobody took responsibility for taking care of the underused overgrown section that the school wants to occupy. I would be happy to support the residents that are objecting to the school if I thought that this section was made into a more viable amenity for everybody. I suspect that if the school did relocate elsewhere and this "problem" went away then after a while the current grass cutting and tidying will fizzle out too and the site will revert back to kip it was a few short years ago.
As Aer Arann said about the Cork/Dublin service "Use it or Loose it".
The local residents woke up to this fact a little late I fear.

professore

It seems that the higher authorities have seen sense.

I suspect that the city councillors knew this would happen all along so were able to save face by splitting the vote 50:50 along party lines, which I always found was very strange.

It's a pity that there could not have been a proper reasoned debate on the issue rather that the "Ulster says No" stance adopted by the "Save the Tank Field" lobby (not the residents - they do not represent all the local residents).

To Dermo123, I also have no problem with alternative sites - in fact would prefer an alternative site in view of the hostile nature of the above lobby. However even if there were alternative sites, the planning process is so torturous it would take 5+ years to get to this stage again.

thejuggler

Have been listening to some of the residents comments on local radio news this morning. One comment stuck in the memory - "The tank field is not just a field - its precious" Such NIMBYism.
I predict within ten years the GAA club will sell the entire field to developers for housing anyway.

Dermo123

That is my fear too and it will come more and more under threat to be built on for houses as time goes on. The price of oil is going to keep rising and more and more people will have to live in large population centres like cities. Older houses will become so uneconical to heat that newer ones with very high efficency will have to be built. The best way to try and preserve the entire tank field for as long as possible would be to build something like the school on there and convert the rest to an a child focused ammenity which everyone young and old can use. Leaving it untouched as so many in the "Save the tank Field" campaign want, will ultimately make it easier to be developed upon.

Its So Easy

thejuggler wrote: »

Have been listening to some of the residents comments on local radio news this morning. One comment stuck in the memory - "The tank field is not just a field - its precious" Such NIMBYism.
I predict within ten years the GAA club will sell the entire field to developers for housing anyway.

Small tiny little stumbling block to that plan is the fact that the GAA club don't own the field and the grounds. That's why there are no fences around the fields as Brian Dillons can't stop people using it.

Its So Easy

professore wrote: »

It seems that the higher authorities have seen sense.

I suspect that the city councillors knew this would happen all along so were able to save face by splitting the vote 50:50 along party lines, which I always found was very strange.

It's a pity that there could not have been a proper reasoned debate on the issue rather that the "Ulster says No" stance adopted by the "Save the Tank Field" lobby (not the residents - they do not represent all the local residents).

To Dermo123, I also have no problem with alternative sites - in fact would prefer an alternative site in view of the hostile nature of the above lobby. However even if there were alternative sites, the planning process is so torturous it would take 5+ years to get to this stage again.

In your opinion anyway. It's not the schools fault for the situation their facilities are in. And I'll admit they look awful from just walking past it. The school was offered more sites but for whatever reason they declined. And having lived within two minutes of the tank field for 23 years I'm a local resident and my personal opinion is you will be taking away a valuble green area for the whole area which has been here for generations and has provided hours of enjoyment for the kids of the area for generations and keeps them outside and not stuck indoors. And I just feel the situation would be different it there were no other options and sites but we all know there is. And the school is called Gaelscoil Gort Alainn(sp) yet it is currently in Montenotte / Murmont. Could someone explain that to me please ?

Its So Easy

Dermo123 wrote: »

I am not sure that the school will be built yet. The residents association are very resourceful and if there is an angle to stop it, they will find it. A legal challenge or some other obstructing mechanism may be on the cards.

I have a child going to the school since last September and the conditions are pretty poor by todays standards. I live locally and can understand how devisive an issue it is. I cannot get to the bottom of the of whether the tank field is the only available site or not but where ever you want to name the NIMBY issue will arise. The residence association was only really formed when the idea of the school being built was first muted. Before that nobody took responsibility for taking care of the underused overgrown section that the school wants to occupy. I would be happy to support the residents that are objecting to the school if I thought that this section was made into a more viable amenity for everybody. I suspect that if the school did relocate elsewhere and this "problem" went away then after a while the current grass cutting and tidying will fizzle out too and the site will revert back to kip it was a few short years ago.
As Aer Arann said about the Cork/Dublin service "Use it or Loose it".
The local residents woke up to this fact a little late I fear.

Sorry I have to object to that. It's not just the unused area behind one of the goalposts that will be lost. Its is over half the field and If ye look at the outside wall of the field, there is a Blue line that shows the extent of the development. And I was told this by my brother who plays for the club and he was told this.

Dermo123

I think people use language like "over half of the tank field" to suit their arguement. The green area from the corner where the back entrance to the Cope Foundation is to the east all the way to the padestrian access to St. Christophers Road to the west is 11 acres approx. The planning application was to occupy 2.3acres of this on the Western end. 2.3 acres is less than a quater of 11 acres. There will still be two pitches as there is currently and the realignment of the current large playing field will move into another area that is also relatively unused and underdeveloped.
If you want to define the tank field as only the area from the access road into Brian Dillons back to the narrow part of the field where the school is intended to be built then you can say it will take over half of that area, but nobody regarded the tank field in reality as being limited to just this area as there is no physical boundary limiting it to just that size.

bill_ashmount

professore wrote: »

It seems that the higher authorities have seen sense.

Sense because it suits you?????

Even one of the councillors in the echo yesterday who has children attending the school said it was an attack on local democracy.

Dermo123

An attack on local democracy??? 4 of the 5 local councillors in the ward voted for the rezoning!!!
15 to 13 was the vote in the council overall which is a majority in real terms.
The planning authorities can see this too even though the 2/3 majority rule stopped the zoning initially. The process that is there has been followed so the crowd it does not suit will always complain.

thejuggler

Its So Easy wrote: »

Small tiny little stumbling block to that plan is the fact that the GAA club don't own the field and the grounds. That's why there are no fences around the fields as Brian Dillons can't stop people using it.

Sorry didn't realise that but if the city council own it then I predict that within ten years there will be social housing on the site.

Perhaps the citizens of Murmount (which is Mayfield really not Montenotte) might want to consider that when opposing the school. Better the school than housing.