Rezoning for new Gaelscoil in Mayfield refused

54kroc

What's an Educate Together school? jesus my niece and nephew go there and I don't even know.

thegoalkeeper

professore wrote: »

Problem there is that even assuming that planning could be gotten for what would be a much bigger school the planning would have to start again from zero - not sure Gaelscoil Uí Drisceoil or indeed ourselves would appreciate that.

Also Gaelscoil Uí Drisceoil is not an Educate Together school - so schools would have to retain their separate identities. As long as they did I would not have an issue with it personally, except it is quite a bit further away from where I live.

Why would it be subject planning?

thegoalkeeper

professore wrote: »

They currently use it as sports grounds and will continue to do so? It's not as if they are going to put housing on it or convert it to some other use?

Could I respectfully suggest thet you enlighten yourself with the planning documents are available from the Cork City Council wed site.

The planning governs the entire 11 acres. The playing pitch will be leased to Brian Dillons as opposed to on license. The area will be railed in.

So simply the Gaelscoil gets their railed in plot and Brian Dillons get their railed in plot. Residents loose access.

professore

thegoalkeeper wrote: »

Could I respectfully suggest thet you enlighten yourself with the planning documents are available from the Cork City Council wed site.

The planning governs the entire 11 acres. The playing pitch will be leased to Brian Dillons as opposed to on license. The area will be railed in.

So simply the Gaelscoil gets their railed in plot and Brian Dillons get their railed in plot. Residents loose access.

That doesn't sound good.
Can you provide a link? Thanks.

ShamoBuc

thegoalkeeper wrote: »

Why would it be subject planning?

Planning was for a 16 class school in the Ibis - if they 'joined together' they would automatically be going against planning and locals could quite rightly put a stop to the initial move - that will not happen, G úi D. would not allow that to happen and no one could blame them.
If it were to be done in the future it would see a bringing together of two different category schools - which opens a huge can of worms from a Department of education perspective. The distance from Mayfield is of course another issue - I think it's a non starter as neither school want it to happen.

54kroc

Using the Ibis site as a school was a great idea fair play to who ever thought of it.
How are the two schools so different?

professore

cork45 wrote: »

What's an Educate Together school? jesus my niece and nephew go there and I don't even know.

A school where there is no faith education during school time, in most schools the Catholic religion is taught during class, and prayers etc. This is not the case in an Educate Together school.

professore

cork45 wrote: »

Using the Ibis site as a school was a great idea fair play to who ever thought of it.
How are the two schools so different?

I agree with you on the Ibis site - it's a nice site for a school alright.

Well one having a Catholic ethos and the other not, this is a very big difference.

54kroc

professore wrote: »

A school where there is no faith education during school time, in most schools the Catholic religion is taught during class, and prayers etc. This is not the case in an Educate Together school.

That's very good, I wish my school was like that when I went there.
Fair enough joining the two together wouldn't work at all.

professore

cork45 wrote: »

That's very good, I wish my school was like that when I went there.
Fair enough joining the two together wouldn't work at all.

Yes I agree, it's also not the case that the kids don't learn about religion during class time, they do, but it's about various religions and their customs. There are also sessions outside school hours for kids who require religious instruction, e.g. preparing for communion or whatever. As someone taught first by nuns and then by christian brothers, I can see the value in this!!!!

54kroc

Way off topic but why would someone send their kids to a school with no faith education during school time yet still have them making their communion and confirmation.

professore

cork45 wrote: »

Way off topic but why would someone send their kids to a school with no faith education during school time yet still have them making their communion and confirmation.

I guess to broaden their minds to people with different or no beliefs? That was our motivation at least. Can't speak for others.

evilivor

cork45 wrote: »

Way off topic but why would someone send their kids to a school with no faith education during school time yet still have them making their communion and confirmation.

For the money?

Dudess

I walk up to the tank field nearly every day and it's always really quiet - even on warm days. I chuckle a bit at all the "Save our tank field" signs around the place too - what's "our" about it?

professore

evilivor wrote: »

For the money?

That's a whole other thread

Dudess

Was up there today - a lovely sunny Saturday afternoon. It would have been busy, right? Two lads playing football, one man walking his dog, one woman walking her dog - that's it. There is another green across from it (not as big, but still a decent size) which is unused and overgrown. There is another small green at the far end of the Tank Field.

Really think opposition to the school is just dislike of change.

54kroc

I've certainly seen more people using the field at times, Is there a certain number of people that should be using it?

I don't think it's that people don't want change I think they don't want to loose a great public space to a school that shouldn't be there in the first place.

professore

cork45 wrote: »

I've certainly seen more people using the field at times, Is there a certain number of people that should be using it?

I don't think it's that people don't want change I think they don't want to loose a great public space to a school that shouldn't be there in the first place.

It is not the case that there will be no field anymore for people to use.

The new school is a small area which will overlap a small part of the GAA pitch immediately beside the current prefabs. It is not going to take up all 11 acres - more like 2.3 acres. There will still be 2 GAA pitches remaining and the green area opposite the path to the school will be untouched by the school plans.

People will still be free to walk the remaining field any time they want. From speaking to sources within the school it is not my understanding that the field will be fenced off from the public as suggested by other posters. Any railings planned by the school or Brian Dillons will still allow access to the public and are purely to delineate the pitches and school.

professore

Dudess wrote: »

Was up there today - a lovely sunny Saturday afternoon. It would have been busy, right? Two lads playing football, one man walking his dog, one woman walking her dog - that's it. There is another green across from it (not as big, but still a decent size) which is unused and overgrown. There is another small green at the far end of the Tank Field.

Really think opposition to the school is just dislike of change.

Here's a question - if the school had looked for planning on that unused area across the road from the Tank Field - would there have been as many objections? I would say yes but would be interested to hear views on this.

Ironically the area proposed as the site for the school lay overgrown with long grass and weeds and was unused for years (except by teenagers at night drinking cider) until this controversy started. Since then it is like Wimbledon on opening day. I must suggest that there will be a school built on the green near my house - it might get people motivated to cut the grass!

Dudess

cork45 wrote: »

Is there a certain number of people that should be using it?

Well I don't understand vociferous protection of a public space that isn't even used much. A lot of the residents are older too, and young kids being educated isn't of relevance to them. And I dislike ownership being claimed of something by people who aren't its owners. The local residents have no more ownership of the Tank Field than someone in Blarney has. If most of the place was being taken over, I'd understand objections to it, as a public green is a beneficial local asset, but not when it's only a small chunk of it, and for a valuable service.

54kroc

Dudess wrote: »

Well I don't understand vociferous protection of a public space that isn't even used much. A lot of the residents are older too, and young kids being educated isn't of relevance to them. And I dislike ownership being claimed of something by people who aren't its owners. The local residents have no more ownership of the Tank Field than someone in Blarney has. If most of the place was being taken over, I'd understand objections to it, as a public green is a beneficial local asset, but not when it's only a small chunk of it, and for a valuable service.

Are you sure it's only a small chunk?
I got this quote from a link a page or two back.

Re-zoning would cause the entire field to be lost to the general public. It would trigger a deal that would see, in effect, the Tank Field becoming private property. The western side would be given to the Gaelscoil and the remainder would be transferred to Brian Dillons GAA club on a long term lease. Fences would be erected and the public would be fenced out.

I think protecting what public spaces we have left around the city is very important and at the end of the day the tank field is a well used public space.

Share the Tank Field

Dudess wrote: »

I walk up to the tank field nearly every day and it's always really quiet - even on warm days. I chuckle a bit at all the "Save our tank field" signs around the place too - what's "our" about it?

I have to admit that I find the same when I am up there (almost daily). Its either deserted or the same few people are walking their dogs.

I am new to this site but Professore, well done for starting this thread. My child will be starting at Gaelscoil in September and I very much hope that a decision will be made about a school some time before 6th class. I have been following this matter since the first planning application went in and have been appalled by the conduct of some residents, especially in letters to the local newspaper. It gives the area a terrible name especially as there are some lovely people living in Murmont.

florodon2

Share the Tank Field wrote: »

I have to admit that I find the same when I am up there (almost daily). Its either deserted or the same few people are walking their dogs.

I am new to this site but Professore, well done for starting this thread. My child will be starting at Gaelscoil in September and I very much hope that a decision will be made about a school some time before 6th class. I have been following this matter since the first planning application went in and have been appalled by the conduct of some residents, especially in letters to the local newspaper. It gives the area a terrible name especially as there are some lovely people living in Murmont.

Share the Tank Field. What a joke! The Gaelscoil and Brian Dillons Club want to carve up the Field between them. No-one else will be able to use it. None of the existing schools who use it at present will have access to it. None of the locals will have access to it. No-one from further afield will have access to it. Share it? You want it all to yourself.

The locals are only seeking to protect the Tank Field, a place we have used for generations without restrictions of any sort. No-one has ever been denied access to it. Even if we were playing on the actual pitch and Brian Dillons arrived for a match, we would immediately move elsewhere, or if there was no other space available we would just leave the field. No complaining. Everyone accepted the situation.

But now, with the Gaelscoil and Brian Dillons seeking to deny access to everyone except the chosen few, we have an obligation to fight to ensure that the Tank Field remains open and public, available to all, and not just to those who consider themselves to be better than the rest of us, more Gaelic than the rest of us.

We must fight in order to preserve this unique local facility for future generations.

florodon2

professore wrote: »

Didn't think there was any dispute about education improving a country's economic prospects, but OK ...

http://www.examiner.ie/ireland/prefabs-bill-almost-halves-as-schools-opt-to-build-permanent-classrooms-110830.html

http://www.edu.gov.on.ca/eng/document/reports/learn/goodplaces.pdf

http://edpro.stanford.edu/Hanushek/admin/pages/files/uploads/Economic%20Value.cleveland%20fed.pdf

Also Google has hundreds more.

The documents cited are totally irrelevant to the situation pertaining at the Tank Field. In case I have missed a relevant paragraph, perhaps you would point that out.

professore

florodon2 wrote: »

The documents cited are totally irrelevant to the situation pertaining at the Tank Field. In case I have missed a relevant paragraph, perhaps you would point that out.

They are just as irrelevant as was your link in post 174 to a Daily Telegraph article about the economic value of green spaces - and you requested similar articles citing the benefits of education which I replied to even though it was frankly ridiculous to ask for these as it is a well established fact that education has economic benefits.

The whole thing is off topic.

professore

Share the Tank Field wrote: »

I have to admit that I find the same when I am up there (almost daily). Its either deserted or the same few people are walking their dogs.

I am new to this site but Professore, well done for starting this thread. My child will be starting at Gaelscoil in September and I very much hope that a decision will be made about a school some time before 6th class. I have been following this matter since the first planning application went in and have been appalled by the conduct of some residents, especially in letters to the local newspaper. It gives the area a terrible name especially as there are some lovely people living in Murmont.

Thank you. I mostly feel I am the lone voice on here as most parents, including myself, don't have the time to spend replying to the 4 or 5 active users constantly posting the same things on this thread even though most of their points have been refuted many times. By the way congratulations on your choice of school, it really is a fantastic school. I have had 3 kids attend it and I couldn't have asked for more education wise.

professore

florodon2 wrote: »

Share the Tank Field. What a joke! The Gaelscoil and Brian Dillons Club want to carve up the Field between them. No-one else will be able to use it. None of the existing schools who use it at present will have access to it. None of the locals will have access to it. No-one from further afield will have access to it. Share it? You want it all to yourself.

Certainly not.

florodon2 wrote: »

Even if we were playing on the actual pitch and Brian Dillons arrived for a match, we would immediately move elsewhere, or if there was no other space available we would just leave the field. No complaining. Everyone accepted the situation.

How amazingly tolerant of you. Surely this goes without saying?

florodon2 wrote: »

But now, with the Gaelscoil and Brian Dillons seeking to deny access to everyone except the chosen few, we have an obligation to fight to ensure that the Tank Field remains open and public, available to all, and not just to those who consider themselves to be better than the rest of us, more Gaelic than the rest of us.

We must fight in order to preserve this unique local facility for future generations.

Oh yes we can all trace our ancestry back to Niall of the Nine Hostages. It's part of the screening programme for the school. Will you just listen to yourself. FYI there are children from all sorts of ethnic and cultural backgrounds at the school, and since it is an Educate Together school it is more tolerant of other cultures and beliefs than the average religious order run school. It's actually one of the main attractions of the school for me.

Who are you going to fight? Primary schoolchildren?

florodon2

professore wrote: »

They are just as irrelevant as was your link in post 174 to a Daily Telegraph article about the economic value of green spaces - and you requested similar articles citing the benefits of education which I replied to even though it was frankly ridiculous to ask for these as it is a well established fact that education has economic benefits.

The whole thing is off topic.

Yes, total agreement about the economic benefits of education.

But there will be no benefit to anyone except Gaelscoil and Brian Dillons if the school is built on the Tank Field. Many thousands will be disadvantaged if the school is built.

Again, let me quote just a excerpt from the earlier post, and the article.

The health benefits of living with a view of a green space are worth up to £300 per person per year, in part by providing areas for people to exercise but also because simply looking at nature lifts people's spirits, according to scientific research.

But these benefits are rarely taken into account when decisions are made about granting permission for building and other development, and in selling off green spaces such as playing fields.

I simply make the point that the Tank Field has been a wonderful amenity for generations of people. Now you want to deprive present and future generations of this. How can the health and well being of present and future generations be 'off topic' just because you decide it is?

professore

florodon2 wrote: »

Yes, total agreement about the economic benefits of education.

But there will be no benefit to anyone except Gaelscoil and Brian Dillons if the school is built on the Tank Field. Many thousands will be disadvantaged if the school is built.

Again, let me quote just a excerpt from the earlier post, and the article.

The health benefits of living with a view of a green space are worth up to £300 per person per year, in part by providing areas for people to exercise but also because simply looking at nature lifts people's spirits, according to scientific research.

But these benefits are rarely taken into account when decisions are made about granting permission for building and other development, and in selling off green spaces such as playing fields.

I simply make the point that the Tank Field has been a wonderful amenity for generations of people. Now you want to deprive present and future generations of this. How can the health and well being of present and future generations be 'off topic' just because you decide it is?

So this is on topic and proper school facilities is off topic? Very selective. You can't have it both ways.

Share the Tank Field

florodon2 wrote: »

But now, with the Gaelscoil and Brian Dillons seeking to deny access to everyone except the chosen few, we have an obligation to fight to ensure that the Tank Field remains open and public, available to all, and not just to those who consider themselves to be better than the rest of us, more Gaelic than the rest of us.

We must fight in order to preserve this unique local facility for future generations.

For starters, I do not consider myself better than anybody and I am as Irish as the next person and I think I can speak for the other parents on that too. This elitist notion has been spread by those who are a little insecure that a) the school is all-Irish and b) it is an Educate Together school and therefore not under the patronage of the Catholic Church. Isn't it great that we have such great schools in our area and isn't it great that the Gaelscoil, another great school is there for the many parents who want to send their children to an Irish speaking school?