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Rezoning for new Gaelscoil in Mayfield refused

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    #212
    professore
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,857 ✭✭✭professore


    This elitist notion has been spread by those who are a little insecure that a) the school is all-Irish and b) it is an Educate Together school and therefore not under the patronage of the Catholic Church.

    The only ones spreading elitist notions are your group. You will see reading back through the posts that many times it is mentioned about children not being from the local area, narrowly defined as the immediate vicinity of the school. This is so elitist it beggars belief.

    The families attending the school are by and large ordinary people struggling to make ends meet - and I include myself in that category. If they were not a lot more of them would be on here pontificating while their maids tidied the house. It really annoys me when I hear this elitist thing thrown about. If your kids have to learn Irish by law then they might as well do it properly, not the half-assed failed methods I was subjected to as a child. That's my opinion on the subject.


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    #213
    Share the Tank Field
    Closed Accounts Posts: 30 ✭Share the Tank Field


    I'm in agreement with you and I think you said it better than I did. :)


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    #214
    regress
    Registered Users Posts: 580 ✭✭✭regress


    I thought that the main reason that parents sent their children to Gaelscoile which are not in their area was because they did not want them associating with blacks in "ordinary" local schools.

    Why do parents in Glanmire want to drive to Mayfield to send their children to school there. There is also a fair amount of evidence to show that the english language skills of children who go to Gaelscoile are less than their contemporaries in English language schools.


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    #215
    professore
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,857 ✭✭✭professore


    regress wrote: »
    I thought that the main reason that parents sent their children to Gaelscoile which are not in their area was because they did not want them associating with foreigners in "ordinary" local schools.

    Well considering I'm married to a foreigner this would be a strange choice for me to make !!!!!

    [EDIT: Aha I see you changed foreigners to blacks - believe it or not there are black children in the Gaelscoil - the horror!]


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    #216
    regress
    Registered Users Posts: 580 ✭✭✭regress


    professore wrote: »
    - believe it or not there are black children in the Gaelscoil - the horror!]

    just an observation that I have heard on more than one occasion. I assume that there is quite a high proportion of foreign kids in Glanmire these days.


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    #217
    Share the Tank Field
    Closed Accounts Posts: 30 ✭Share the Tank Field


    regress wrote: »
    I thought that the main reason that parents sent their children to Gaelscoile which are not in their area was because they did not want them associating with blacks in "ordinary" local schools.

    Why do parents in Glanmire want to drive to Mayfield to send their children to school there. There is also a fair amount of evidence to show that the english language skills of children who go to Gaelscoile are less than their contemporaries in English language schools.

    Why do parents drive to anywhere to send their children to school? Parents have been driving up from Glanmire for years. I went to one of the local "ordinary" (as you put it) primary schools and there were 3 children in my class from Glanmire. You are not required by law to send your children to a school in your area. I think you will find that in any of the schools in the city that there are children from areas slightly outside a one mile radius
    I have not seen one shred of evidence that children's english skills are bad as a result of a Gaelscoil education, on the contrary, it has been proved that being bi-lingual from an early age encourages better language comprehension

    With regards to your comments on black children, why would I send my child to an Educate Together school if I was trying to keep him/her away from the immigrants?


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    #218
    professore
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,857 ✭✭✭professore


    regress wrote: »
    I thought that the main reason that parents sent their children to Gaelscoile which are not in their area was because they did not want them associating with blacks in "ordinary" local schools.

    In all the years I have been involved with the school I have never once heard this said. Seems it failed anyway as there are black kids in the school. I hadn't noticed that Glanmire had a high percentage of black people or "blacks" as you so put it. If there are they are well hidden.
    regress wrote: »
    Why do parents in Glanmire want to drive to Mayfield to send their children to school there.

    Maybe because they like the school?
    regress wrote: »
    There is also a fair amount of evidence to show that the english language skills of children who go to Gaelscoile are less than their contemporaries in English language schools.

    Up until about 2nd class they can be a bit behind in reading and writing English but after that they catch up. They are bombarded with English all the time. On the other hand, if you compare their Irish language skills by 6th class they will have leaving cert level Irish and a fluency in spoken Irish that is not matched at Leaving Cert. There is also a lot of evidence that becoming fluent in two languages as a child makes it easier to learn other languages - and I have seen this firsthand.

    Oh and finally my daughter is 13 and gets straight As in English.


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    #219
    professore
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,857 ✭✭✭professore


    It's quite amazing that the racist thing is constantly brought up by the Tank Field association. It must be something on the top of their minds all the time. How many of them are black I wonder?


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    #220
    regress
    Registered Users Posts: 580 ✭✭✭regress


    Just playing devils advocate. It appears both my observations which were not really factually based may be incorrect.


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    #221
    54kroc
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,376 ✭✭✭54kroc


    The gealscoil in mayfield was around a good while before the one in rathcooney and scoil na nog in Glanmire was for boarding only up until recently so a lot of people down here sent their kids to mayfield instead.
    Having gone to all Irish primary and secondary schools myself I think it's a pity all schools are not gaelscoileanna, IMO it's the only way to guarantee a child will learn Irish.


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    #222
    professore
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,857 ✭✭✭professore


    cork45 wrote: »
    The gealscoil in mayfield was around a good while before the one in rathcooney and scoil na nog in Glanmire was for boarding only up until recently so a lot of people down here sent their kids to mayfield instead.
    Having gone to all Irish primary and secondary schools myself I think it's a pity all schools are not gaelscoileanna, IMO it's the only way to guarantee a child will learn Irish.

    I would add to that and say that any kids I know going to gaelscoileanna actually like speaking Irish! I hated Irish myself, but having lived abroad in a non-English speaking country it made me realise how sad it is we don't speak our own language and how poorly it is taught. When a Polish guy at work said a few years ago "what kind of a country gives up speaking it's own language?" I found I had no good answer for him.


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    #223
    Share the Tank Field
    Closed Accounts Posts: 30 ✭Share the Tank Field


    I wasn't too bad at Irish at school but would love to be a bit more skilled. It is amazing to hear the young children speaking it so fluently because they are immersed in it from such a young age.


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    #224
    MrProfessore
    Registered Users Posts: 4 ✭MrProfessore


    That is all that has come from all parts of the Gaelscoil, false information to politicians, to the planning authorities, to parents, to residents, and to the children. You have been telling your lies for so long that you actually believe them yourselves. Please go and put half the effort into getting a site somewhere else and you would be in a new school in 12 months You deserve a new school but please put it where the new houses are because that is where the children will be. Do not reply to this post as I am not going to read it because the last time I read this board was 4 years ago. With some people posting 1300 times and wasting every bodies time and my tax money This country is bankrupted and wasting €1,000,000 when there is land that is free and will do a better suited for the job. Taliban uh it’s NATO we need to come in drop a few bombs on a few well chosen sites.


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    #225
    ShamoBuc
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 32,908 CMod ✭✭✭✭ShamoBuc


    The front of the Echo tonight has an intersting insight..." We are not the Taliban"...seriously OTT


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    #226
    professore
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,857 ✭✭✭professore


    MrProfessore wrote: »
    That is all that has come from all parts of the Gaelscoil, false information to politicians, to the planning authorities, to parents, to residents, and to the children. You have been telling your lies for so long that you actually believe them yourselves. Please go and put half the effort into getting a site somewhere else and you would be in a new school in 12 months You deserve a new school but please put it where the new houses are because that is where the children will be. Do not reply to this post as I am not going to read it because the last time I read this board was 4 years ago. With some people posting 1300 times and wasting every bodies time and my tax money This country is bankrupted and wasting €1,000,000 when there is land that is free and will do a better suited for the job. Taliban uh it’s NATO we need to come in drop a few bombs on a few well chosen sites.

    A well thought out and balanced post. Seriously though you need professional help.

    Sincerely,

    The real professore


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    #227
    Share the Tank Field
    Closed Accounts Posts: 30 ✭Share the Tank Field


    I had to laugh at the bit in the Echo where the residents assoc. said that the school should not be using the children in the protest. Isn't it a tad ironic that St. Patrick's children were on the front page, and a few weeks ago when children were also pictured at the peaceful residents protest, and, when the residents held a protest and camogie blitz while the school protest took place in town.


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    #228
    Share the Tank Field
    Closed Accounts Posts: 30 ✭Share the Tank Field


    MrProfessore wrote: »
    That is all that has come from all parts of the Gaelscoil, false information to politicians, to the planning authorities, to parents, to residents, and to the children. You have been telling your lies for so long that you actually believe them yourselves. Please go and put half the effort into getting a site somewhere else and you would be in a new school in 12 months You deserve a new school but please put it where the new houses are because that is where the children will be. Do not reply to this post as I am not going to read it because the last time I read this board was 4 years ago. With some people posting 1300 times and wasting every bodies time and my tax money This country is bankrupted and wasting €1,000,000 when there is land that is free and will do a better suited for the job. Taliban uh it’s NATO we need to come in drop a few bombs on a few well chosen sites.

    What a bitter and twisted individual. Its the likes of you are giving the good people of the area a bad name. Shame on you!


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    #229
    professore
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,857 ✭✭✭professore


    http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/breaking/2011/0627/breaking34.html

    Forty new schools over six years
    The schools are being built to meet a surge in the birth rate, which is forecast to result in an additional 70,000 students at both primary and secondary school level.


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    #230
    florodon2
    Registered Users Posts: 28 ✭florodon2


    professore wrote: »
    http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/breaking/2011/0627/breaking34.html

    Forty new schools over six years

    http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2011/0625/1224299585707.html

    Department of Education, secretary general Brigid McManus told the Forum on School Patronage 2011,
    'The department had “spoken of all options to the bishops”, she said, and gave an example of where there might be two Catholic schools in a parish, it might be easier to amalgamate these into one, making the other available for an alternative patron.'

    Educate Together: http://www.education.ie/servlet/blobservlet/fpp_sub_educate_together.pdf

    "It is Educate Together’s experience that such situations generally exist in areas where there is existing under-utilised or vacant provision. In these areas, it is necessary for the State to make a full review of provision and identify potential for rationalisation and re-use of existing premises. This review should be presented to existing patrons and those representing parents seeking other school types. This review should take into account demographics, school sizes, school types, ownership and configuration." (p.4)

    "It will be important that the State takes steps to ensure that property issues are not used to frustrate such solutions and that no preference is given to any provider in the allocation of resources. Educate Together is strongly of the view that ‘campus-sharing’ solutions are possible in many areas and can be achieved at minimal additional cost to the State." (p.5)

    Educate Together on the use of Joint campus

    "Many instances of shared facilities offer the opportunity to create a joint campus between schools of different types and in some cases community facilities that are open to the public all year round. Educate Together believes that such opportunities should be welcomed as they have the potential to produce very positive community environments when well-managed." (p.10)

    The N.E.Ward of Cork City is an area with a declining population, and also an aging population, with significantly reduced numbers of local primary school pupils (see census, number of political representatives, and falling numbers of pupils in local schools). The area has a surplus of schools. There are more school buildings in the N.E.Ward area than any other area in the City.

    A simple solution would be to amalgamate the separate, under-utilised boys and girls schools at Mayfield, or The Glen, and allow the Gaelscoil patron body or Educate Together to take over the surplus buildings. That would be consistent with recent statement by present Minister for Education and Skills on patron bodies. (See above reference) The Gaelscoil could be in its own proper school buildings within a short time.

    Alternatively, build the new Gaelscoil on surplus unused state land at any of the sites such as, Mayfield Community School, Tinkers Cross, Boherboy Road, Camp Field, Banduff.

    There are so many options available to the Gaelscoil. Why insist that the school must be built ONLY on the Tank Field?


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    #231
    professore
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,857 ✭✭✭professore


    florodon2 wrote: »
    http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2011/0625/1224299585707.html

    Department of Education, secretary general Brigid McManus told the Forum on School Patronage 2011,
    'The department had “spoken of all options to the bishops”, she said, and gave an example of where there might be two Catholic schools in a parish, it might be easier to amalgamate these into one, making the other available for an alternative patron.'

    Educate Together: http://www.education.ie/servlet/blobservlet/fpp_sub_educate_together.pdf

    "It is Educate Together’s experience that such situations generally exist in areas where there is existing under-utilised or vacant provision. In these areas, it is necessary for the State to make a full review of provision and identify potential for rationalisation and re-use of existing premises. This review should be presented to existing patrons and those representing parents seeking other school types. This review should take into account demographics, school sizes, school types, ownership and configuration." (p.4)

    "It will be important that the State takes steps to ensure that property issues are not used to frustrate such solutions and that no preference is given to any provider in the allocation of resources. Educate Together is strongly of the view that ‘campus-sharing’ solutions are possible in many areas and can be achieved at minimal additional cost to the State." (p.5)

    Educate Together on the use of Joint campus

    "Many instances of shared facilities offer the opportunity to create a joint campus between schools of different types and in some cases community facilities that are open to the public all year round. Educate Together believes that such opportunities should be welcomed as they have the potential to produce very positive community environments when well-managed." (p.10)

    I have no issue with this provided it is either with another Gaelscoil or in some self contained part of an existing school campus with separate or staggered playground facilities as total immersion in spoken Irish is critical during school time.
    florodon2 wrote: »
    The N.E.Ward of Cork City is an area with a declining population, and also an aging population, with significantly reduced numbers of local primary school pupils (see census, number of political representatives, and falling numbers of pupils in local schools). The area has a surplus of schools. There are more school buildings in the N.E.Ward area than any other area in the City.

    A simple solution would be to amalgamate the separate, under-utilised boys and girls schools at Mayfield, or The Glen, and allow the Gaelscoil patron body or Educate Together to take over the surplus buildings. That would be consistent with recent statement by present Minister for Education and Skills on patron bodies. (See above reference) The Gaelscoil could be in its own proper school buildings within a short time.

    This sounds great ... would be all in favour of it, assuming the facilities are reasonable.
    florodon2 wrote: »
    Alternatively, build the new Gaelscoil on surplus unused state land at any of the sites such as, Mayfield Community School, Tinkers Cross, Boherboy Road, Camp Field, Banduff.

    Realistically unless the Germans come in and take over altogether, it will take years if it happens at all. Many of these sites have already been rejected by government bodies as unsuitable.
    florodon2 wrote: »
    There are so many options available to the Gaelscoil. Why insist that the school must be built ONLY on the Tank Field?

    I don't insist. I only see that the planning process is so slow that it has taken over 10 years to get to here, if we change tack now we will be waiting another 10 or 20 years. Personally speaking I would be delighted with the first option if it is workable.


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    #232
    thejuggler
    Registered Users Posts: 860 ✭✭✭thejuggler


    Were the city council meant to be voting on this at a meeting last night or am I mistaken?


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    #233
    Share the Tank Field
    Closed Accounts Posts: 30 ✭Share the Tank Field


    thejuggler wrote: »
    Were the city council meant to be voting on this at a meeting last night or am I mistaken?

    As far as I know, they will vote on the material contravention next Monday (11th July).


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    #234
    54kroc
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,376 ✭✭✭54kroc


    Share the Tank Field wrote: »
    As far as I know, they will vote on the material contravention next Monday (11th July).

    Please forgive my simpleness but what is the material contravention?


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    #235
    Share the Tank Field
    Closed Accounts Posts: 30 ✭Share the Tank Field


    cork45 wrote: »
    Please forgive my simpleness but what is the material contravention?

    The Council will vote on whether or not to rezone the portion of the Tank Field required by the Gaelscoil as it is currently zoned as a sports area. If it is rezoned it will be going against (a material contravention of) the Development Plan for Cork City Development Plan 2009-2015.


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    #236
    thejuggler
    Registered Users Posts: 860 ✭✭✭thejuggler


    Share the Tank Field wrote: »
    As far as I know, they will vote on the material contravention next Monday (11th July).

    Thank you. I got my weeks wrong


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    #237
    evilivor
    Registered Users Posts: 2,613 ✭✭✭evilivor


    Share the Tank Field wrote: »
    As far as I know, they will vote on the material contravention next Monday (11th July).

    Is there a list available of Councillors pro or anti the Gaelscoil?


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    #238
    MRBEAVER
    Closed Accounts Posts: 206 ✭✭MRBEAVER


    There was a list blished in the Echo a few weeks ago. At that stage it looked like there wouldn't be enough to vote through a material contravention of the Development plan which is required if the public green area is to be developed on. Didn't necessarily go on party lines either. Mick Barry wants the Tank Field to be built on but most of the Sinn Fein Councillors opposed. FF and FG councillors divided. An important point for councillors in favour is that remaining green area would be transferred to Brian Dillons and fenced off to stop public access.


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    #239
    Share the Tank Field
    Closed Accounts Posts: 30 ✭Share the Tank Field


    MRBEAVER wrote: »
    An important point for councillors in favour is that remaining green area would be transferred to Brian Dillons and fenced off to stop public access.

    I have spoken to many councillors both in favour and against in the last few weeks and none of those in favour of the school expressed a wish to see the remaining ground fenced off by Brian Dillons. In fact, the club wasnt mentioned atall. They only expressed a wish that the school could be built some time in the near future.

    At this stage it seems that there will not be enough councillors voting in favour but feicimid.


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    #240
    professore
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,857 ✭✭✭professore


    MRBEAVER wrote: »
    FF and FG councillors divided.

    This really sums up what a joke these parties are - purely dividing their votes on an issue like this so as to get votes from both sides. Disgusting.


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    #241
    professore
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,857 ✭✭✭professore


    Share the Tank Field wrote: »
    They only expressed a wish that the school could be built some time in the near future.

    At this stage it seems that there will not be enough councillors voting in favour but feicimid.

    Yes I'm sure in a future where we are all holding hands with flowers in our hair. Typical.


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