LOVE TARA march, Saturday 21 July@1pm

glen.girl

Mass demonstration planned to compel Gormley to act

A mass demonstration will be held on Saturday July 21 to compel Minister for the Environment John Gormley to act to save the Hill of Tara from the M3 motorway.

The march will begin at 1pm at the Garden of Remembrance, and shall proceed to the Customs House.

This is our opportunity to voice our opposition to the desecration of the Tara-Skryne Valley. Please, if you love Tara, come along this Saturday.

mikemac

It's a bit late now though.
You should have done this years ago when it was in the planning stages.

Maybe you did do this, I don't know but this strikes me as too late to have any impact

glen.girl

Oh we did march before-the Greens joined us on that one. There is a picture that was in the papers of Trevor and co holding a big Save Tara banner. I don't think they'll show up this time.Yes, it may seem late but this is a lot of pressure on Gormley now, from all directions. It is likely that this may be the last ever Tara march, as the matter will be out of everybody's hands when it goes into the courts.

Anyway, for us to make an impact we need loads of people to come and march for Tara. Hopefully see you there

Tchocky

Who thought of the name?

eoin5

Mr Seargent has to mind his manners at the moment .

I'll be there anyway, even though it may be too late.

Erin Go Brath

Tchocky wrote:

Who thought of the name?

Hope it's not the same people who organised Love Ulster.

darkman2

'Love Tara' wtf! Sooner this M'Way is built the better.....I hate these 'Love' marches:mad:

emaherx

Its a waste of time all of the land has already been bought up.
And the work has started on the motorway. do you really think the goverment will back down now, even the greens aren't that stupid.

Tara will still be there after the motorway is built. Save tara is the worst name for this campaigne Tara is not at risk, the view from Tara may be slightly affected, but that is diffrent from Tara being destroyed.

I hope they get to build the road before that stupid excusse for a henge causes them to stop work! after all it is only a ring of post holes in the ground much like the ones found in every field in Meath and every second field in the rest of the country.

damn hippies!

glen.girl

No, we have nothing to do with Love Ulster. It's actually a reference to what was said by one of the members of the EU petitions commitee when they visited Tara. He said on the news that the Irish people really love their Tara.

Pineapple stu

build the road, why a load of fuss from some whinging hippies that dont even drive. A load of fuss about a pile of old bricks.

Tchocky

glen.girl wrote:

He said on the news that the Irish people really love their Tara.

Still sounds weird.

emaherx

cymro wrote:

build the road, why a load of fuss from some whinging hippies that dont even drive. A load of fuss about a pile of old bricks.

The site at lismullen is not even a pile of old bricks
it is only a few post holes formed in a circle, if they reroute the road and the grass grows back it will disappear and no one will ever rember its there (some monument) pepole would only wonder why is there a pointless bend in the motorway.

probably some prehistoric farmer getting creative with his sheep pens and not a place of worship at all

Pineapple stu

People are making out that the road is going through the hill of tara where the visitor centre and church is. If it was then id be against it,but its not so build on i say.

Zebra3

LoveTara march in Dublin? :eek:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tara_%28Northern_Ireland%29

:eek: :eek: :eek:

mikemac

Good find Zebra 3

As a movement Tara sought to establish a Protestant Northern Ireland in which law and order would be paramount and Catholicism would be outlawed. Tara viewed Catholics as being in a grand conspiracy with communism and felt that a conflict between Protestantism and Catholicism was inevitable.

So these Tara protesters are actaully undercover Protestant here to wipe the Catholic population?

Riamfada

Just for the record. The tarawatch crowd and the Love Tara brigade have put lies and exadurations into their publications. They have bent the words of academics and lied about whats on the site.

People stupid enough to read their material deserve to been seen to march for lies and falsifications.

eoin5

Grimes wrote:

Just for the record. The tarawatch crowd and the Love Tara brigade have put lies and exadurations into their publications. They have bent the words of academics and lied about whats on the site.

People stupid enough to read their material deserve to been seen to march for lies and falsifications.

Could you share what these lies might be?

emaherx

eoin5 wrote:

Could you share what these lies might be?

Lie no.1 TARA is endangered by the motorway

NO part of the monument at Tara will be touched by the motorway.
pretty fundimental I would have thougth

Riamfada

Yeah thats more or less the big one they are telling.

Also the use of the phrase "sou-terrain complex" in their literature. Its kind of like saying "ritual" pantries.

I believe they misquoted Prof. George Eoghan and give false archaeological definitions.

There was more, but I cant remember, have to get a copy of the leaflet I found clogging up my favourite cafe.

eoin5

Thanks for the reply, I dont doubt they have lied but I cant stand for unbacked general mudslinging

Tara is one of the greatest sites of Irelands past and its where history and myth combine. My view is that a motorway detracts from the natural environment in which it passes through mainly via visual and noise pollution. It also increases the development potential of the area which is not good for serene little Tara. This motorway will be passing very close to Tara. To say that Tara is endangered by the motorway is a valid statement in my book. To say that the protesters march for lies just seems a little over dramatic when most of them havent lied and just feel the need to protect a treasure of Irelands past from being spoiled.

Riamfada

Eoin, the site itself, really isnt that mythical. Its all a tourist construction, however it is one of the four important "royal" sites. If the motorway was going close to the site id agree but its actually going further away than the present road. Due to the trees ect there will be little or no noise or visual pollution.
Im sure it would make more sense to partition the minister to plan larger trees or wooden barriers along the particular stretch of motorway to minimise impact rather than waste time trying to reroute and already half built multi-million euro motorway.

G

Riamfada

This is directed at any tarawatch people here.

Did any of you people protest when they built a Motorway through the Boyne Valley. I have been searching and cant find anything. Im sure you are all aware of the importance of this site over tara and the finds there were alot more substancial.

So in short did you people protest the M1?


Also I cant believe the ammount of Irish people that buy the Mystical Tara Tourist stuff.

Finally
1) The Lismullen henge was would not have survived underground and thanks to the M3 we can now study it.

2)A Souterrain looks damn impressive but there are 6000 of those underground pantries. Please dont try and con people into thinkin they are anything else.

3)Its seen now that a number of groups involved in the anti motorway patrol are spreading lies and bending the truth in their publications.

And finally the threat isnt to Tara at all. Everyone can see this

Best Wishes
An Archaeology Student


</rant>

ODS

Grimes wrote:

This is directed at any tarawatch people here.

Did any of you people protest when they built a Motorway through the Boyne Valley. I have been searching and cant find anything. Im sure you are all aware of the importance of this site over tara and the finds there were alot more substancial.

So in short did you people protest the M1?


Also I cant believe the ammount of Irish people that buy the Mystical Tara Tourist stuff.

Finally
1) The Lismullen henge was would not have survived underground and thanks to the M3 we can now study it.

2)A Souterrain looks damn impressive but there are 6000 of those underground pantries. Please dont try and con people into thinkin they are anything else.

3)Its seen now that a number of groups involved in the anti motorway patrol are spreading lies and bending the truth in their publications.

And finally the threat isnt to Tara at all. Everyone can see this

Best Wishes
An Archaeology Student


</rant>

This is balderdash. I am not one of the "LoveTara" group - I even think that their name and approach is not up to much - however, I do think that Tara should never have considered as a route option for this motorway. And its not just me but also Mags Gowan (the archaeology contractor currently working on the route) who advised this as far back as 2001.

In all fairness Grimes, your self-described rant is just that - a rant. The M3 will significantly impact on this archaeological landscape with a heavily engineered motorway - especially the Blundellstown spagetti junction, approx only 1000 metres from the summit of Tara. If you don't understand how this can be considered as a significant and detrimental impact on the Tara landscape, I don't hold much hope for you.

The notion that someone has had to protest about M1 in order to have credit to raise concerns about the Tara motorway is preposterious. I suspect if someone does comeback to confirm that they had involvement there, you or others will simply try to brand them as "anti-motorway protestors".

Grimes wrote:

3)Its seen now that a number of groups involved in the anti motorway patrol are spreading lies and bending the truth in their publications.

This is offensive, if not libelous. I can only presume that you are referring to among others Dr. Conor Newman, the leading archaeological professional opinion on Tara and now advisor to John Gormley, Minister of DoE. I also assume that this refers to Dr. Mark Clinton, Irelands leading expert on souterrains, and chairman of An Taisce's National Monuments Committee. I note your self-described status of "an archaeology student" - so presumably you are an undergrad, and hence I again assume that you have to date published diddly-squat; if I am wrong please correct me... So if and until you publish anything relevant to this field then I will continue to consider the professional experts opion as taking precedence over yours. You are, afterall, not the only person to have studied archaeology.

Riamfada

other than dazzling me with your knowledge of characters involved in the debate and tell me I have no right to an opinion as I have not studied Archaeology at a MA level or higher, i fail to see any valid point in that post which is so common among the protesters.

and for the record, what has angered me in all this is so many archeologists and archaeology students stand in the way of the builders at the M1, a kilometer away from Tara and then don their own ACS vests and trowel through a cremation somewhere else in the country.

ODS

Grimes wrote:

other than dazzling me with your knowledge of characters involved in the debate and tell me I have no right to an opinion as I have not studied Archaeology at a MA level or higher, i fail to see any valid point in that post which is so common among the protesters.

I never said that you had "no right to an opinion"; I was simply making the assertion that I will continue to heed the qualified experts over the opion of that of a student, however well-intended or not that the student may be. If anything, it was your original assertion of being an archaeological student that would have implied a greater knowledge of the area than the majority "civilians" who would read/ contribute to this board.

I would be grateful if you refrain from twisting my points.

Riamfada

Well through your "diddly sqaut" arguement it certainly reads differently.

Other than that I still cant see any valid arguement against the road on your part other than "it effects the overall landscape". I can only assume that you have a higher level qualification in Archaeology and have practised in the field.

Would it not be better to ask the minister to plant trees or wooden barriers along that stretch of M3 to protect the visual aspect from the Hill of Tara one kilometer away, as an archaeologist what is your opinion of souterrains, should all archaeological features around the country remain unexcavated in order to preserve our heritage. As I see little difference in excavating for academic reasons or otherwise as it is essentially the destruction of heritage.

Take Lismullen as the perfect example. A hupla among the tarawatch people about a henge that was not only not visible as a ground feature but also close to complete erosion and as a result of the M3 we now fully excavate the site and have the opportunity to understand it in relation to the wider landscape. Had the site been "saved" by Minister Roche or Gormley it would have gone the way of the possible Viking Longphort in Waterford, Woodstown, and rotted away, unexcavated and not appreciated .

It was my understanding that Pat Wallace advised Minister Roche to fully excavate the Lismullen henge. But this brings me back to the question I asked you above.

Riamfada

NRA wrote:

Woodstown, Co Waterford
The site of Woodstown straddles the south bank of the River Suir in Co Waterford and was discovered during test excavations carried out by A.C.S. Ltd. prior to the construction of the N25 Waterford City Bypass. Sub-surface archaeological remains extend c. 500 m alongside the riverbank. The site appears to be multi-period. The limited archaeological excavation indicates Early Christian and Later Viking Age occupation of the site. There was abundant evidence for craft-workings in fine metals (e.g. silver), as well as iron working, stone, glass, bone, antler and amber. Some finds, including copper-alloy stud mounts with gold foil and a copper-alloy book clasp may have been treasure trove from monastic raiding.

The archaeological evidence indicates that during the middle of the ninth century the site was occupied, and presumably taken over, by Viking raiders. Evidence of Viking metalworking in silver and lead was found, and the site has produced the largest assemblage of lead pan weights outside of Viking Dublin. Exotic finds of possible Norwegian schist whetstones and a fragment of a silver Kufic coin from Byzantium reflect the wider world in which Vikings operated. Ships nails and rivets reflect their maritime basis. A single warrior grave with full battle armour was also discovered, but due to the acid soil no skeleton survived.

The site was abandoned c. AD 1050, for reasons as yet unknown. The site may have been an upriver trading station, 6 km from the Viking town of Waterford. The settlement has been preserved in situ by Ministerial order issued in 2005, necessitating a re-route of the bypass at this location.

Link to NRA publication

Note that due to ministerial order the site is left in situ. Hence there is no money to excavate the site fully and as evident above it could prove invaluable to our understanding of Irish society and the origins of Waterford. However the site is rotting away as there is no money to excavate, therefore, due to this rerouting, our heritage is rotting away.

Please note the following NRA archaeological projects


M1 Dundalk Western Bypass
N2 Ashbourne Bypass/M50 Junction
M4 Kilcock-Enfield-Kinnegad Motorway
N4 Sligo Inner Relief Road .
N4 Sligo Inner Relief Road
N4 Longford to Drumsna
N6 Kinnegad-Kilbeggan Dual Carriageway
N15 Bundoran-Ballyshannon Bypass
N20/N21 Adare to Annacotty
M50 South Eastern Motorway


Im simply interested to hear, from those insistant on protecting Tara and our heritage, why they have not protested the archaeological investigations on these road schemes (with the excaption of Carickmines)

All the best
G

emaherx

eoin5 wrote:

Thanks for the reply, I dont doubt they have lied but I cant stand for unbacked general mudslinging

Tara is one of the greatest sites of Irelands past and its where history and myth combine. My view is that a motorway detracts from the natural environment in which it passes through mainly via visual and noise pollution. It also increases the development potential of the area which is not good for serene little Tara. This motorway will be passing very close to Tara. To say that Tara is endangered by the motorway is a valid statement in my book. To say that the protesters march for lies just seems a little over dramatic when most of them havent lied and just feel the need to protect a treasure of Irelands past from being spoiled.

I was on the Hill of Tara at the weekend and no part of the new motorway is visable from the Hill, I walked to every corner of the site and I couldn't see it, I could however see the traffic passing on the current N3.

lostexpectation

grimes what your opinion on landscapes versus isolated sites?

Riamfada

well id personally be thanking the M3 for identifying the importance of the general landscape and not localised ontop of the hill of tara. Unfortunately due to a few hundered years of heavy farming , i cannot advocate the "preservation" of a number of the faintest possible postholes at a massive cost to the taxpayer.

I pose ALL my questions again. Anyone?

lostexpectation

Grimes wrote:

well id personally be thanking the M3 for identifying the importance of the general landscape and not localised ontop of the hill of tara. Unfortunately due to a few hundered years of heavy farming , i cannot advocate the "preservation" of a number of the faintest possible postholes at a massive cost to the taxpayer.

I pose ALL my questions again. Anyone?

thanks for not answering my question,I wasn't just talking about lismullin. I was asking the archaeologist in you not the taxpayer.

what is the archaeological process of finding things, if say they could see a large ring shape on aerial maps, do they firstly dig a few meter squares on the ridge and then maybe dig a radial strip of the site to the center? or do you dig up all the topsoil first and then see if its interesting?

what I mean is if thought you were finding something interesting, something of real importance,something not in the path of the road? do uncover the top soil off it all and dig it all or or do you simple dig a the least amount of areas to find out what it is and then leave it be?