Troll Fest in Harry Potter Forum

nesf

Eh, screw it. Enjoy your books.

She struck lucky, and hit the big-time. Would that we all had such luck ... or is that what sticks in peoples' throats?

Nah man, that's what I respect the most out of her. She didn't screw it up badly like most people (like Dan Brown for instance).

JC 2K3

But did you actually read beyond the first or second book?(After reading the second book, one might think that every book is going to be the exact same formula, it's not until the third book that a deeper storyline is revealed)

Also, one of the most remarkable features of HP is how the characters mature with each book.

She's not a sacred cow, her work just doesn't deserve to be called pulp.

And the "good marketing" was all down to the films. Which ARE shíte. In early reviews for the first book, before many knew about it, JK was compared to Dahl and HP was lauded above any other contemporary children's novels. It's not just an average story with good marketing behind it.

GuanYin

randylonghorn wrote:

lol at the heat in the discussion!

To my mind, anything that has got thousands of kids away from their games consoles and actually reading a book can't be bad.

Except when it promptly puts them back at the console playing over-priced low quality games cashing in on the franchise... oh and watching the movies...


Rowling has done nothing that Enid Blighton didn't do better decades previously. If the Famous Five was revamped and set in the current era, it would do just as well, which is probably why Nancy Drew and others are being released as movies of late.

Even in kids books terms, Narnia is a much better series story line with better writing, but its not going to attract kids because the english isn't in the modern dialect.

So yes, I understand that kids will flock to Potter because it is a rehash of an already tried and trusted formula that has attracted kids for decades, with a fantasy spin that is also tried and trusted (Narnia, LOTR etc) and a modern version of english that kids, who have been further and further disconnected from literature, can grasp.

That said, all of these things make the fact that adults are out at god knows what time waiting for the book's release even sadder. All the reasons that HP appeals to kids over the FF or Narnia series are exactly the reasons adults should be looking elsewhere. I think that fact that adults are basically falling over themselves for a dumbed-down narniaesque, famous five rip-off is a sad reflection on current society.

Huggles

psi wrote:

That said, all of these things make the fact that adults are out at god knows what time waiting for the book's release even sadder. All the reasons that HP appeals to kids over the FF or Narnia series are exactly the reasons adults should be looking elsewhere. I think that fact that adults are basically falling over themselves for a dumbed-down narniaesque, famous five rip-off is a sad reflection on current society.

Oh my god, have you read the books or are you just plain trolling?

You don't even warrant a response.

nesf

psi wrote:

That said, all of these things make the fact that adults are out at god knows what time waiting for the book's release even sadder. All the reasons that HP appeals to kids over the FF or Narnia series are exactly the reasons adults should be looking elsewhere. I think that fact that adults are basically falling over themselves for a dumbed-down narniaesque, famous five rip-off is a sad reflection on current society.

I disagree, I think people are reliving reading Narnia or the Famous Five while reading tbh. I know I did with Pullman's stuff.

ixoy

Nesf, I've seen your posts on Sci-Fi/Fantasy forum and wonder how you feel about the genre as a whole (from a literary point of view)? Is it that you believe that a pulp quality permeates the genre generally or is it that HP (as you know it) embodies more of those pulp qualities?

I am myself a big fan of the sci-fi/fantasy genre and I'll readily admit that there's not that much quality writing (or "wordsmiths" as you labelled them) but instead many authors have greater skill in weaving characters or arcing plots, and so forth.
One of the reasons I've not gone to read the HP series is the audience it was (certainly initially) levelled at and my desire for certain degrees of complexity of character, situation, etc. I've spoken to others with similar tastes to my own and they can understand my P.O.V.
However, there's a certain desire, from me, to wonder why other fantasy series, which I feel have many strong merits, have not achieved the same success and ponder how much of it is down to quality and how much is luck.

Thus my question: do you feel somewhat disappointed/annoyed that many other works, even in the same genre, are ignored when you feel they are superior (in one form or another, be it literary, plot wise, etc) in favour of adulation of the 'Harry Potter' series?

GuanYin

TheGooner wrote:

Oh my god, have you read the books or are you just plain trolling?

You don't even warrant a response.

It doesn't warrent a response is usually a subtle way of saying you don't like my post but can't actually refute anything I'm saying.

David Michael

ecksor wrote:

Well, doesn't this all look very off-topic. Move it to one of your lowbrow pulp forums.

BudWeiser Made me move it.

Huggles

psi wrote:

It doesn't warrent a response is usually a subtle way of saying you don't like my post but can't actually refute anything I'm saying.

No it means I think your trying to goad me into a ban and I'm not going to do that.

GuanYin

nesf wrote:

I disagree, I think people are reliving reading Narnia or the Famous Five while reading tbh. I know I did with Pullman's stuff.

If that is truely the case, then they would see the HP series for what it is and shouldn't be putting it on a pedestal.

daiixi

psi wrote:

Adults reading the Harry Potter books is an example of the dumbing down of current society imho.

Maybe not, but I've read alot of childrens books to kids, and I've enjoyed some of them.

If you want good, clever literature with the elements you describe, go read Umberto Eco or if you want it lighter, even Douglas Adams.

Dude, seriously. I read the Harry Potter books because I enjoy them not because I need things to be "dumbed down".
If I want to read "clever literature with the elements you describe" then I would, will and do at my own leisure and pace.
I'm one of the hundreds, thousands, millions of adults who doesn't need your acceptance to read and enjoy what I want to enjoy. And on that note I don't need people trying to ruin what I want to enjoy..

p.s. On that note Famous Five sucked when I was a kid, don't see how it's any better now that I'm not. Though you won't see me trying to stop anyone from reading it if they like.

GuanYin

TheGooner wrote:

No it means I think your trying to goad me into a ban and I'm not going to do that.

Erm, I couldn't care less about you posting, why would I try get you banned? I've no idea who you are.

If you have a point to make, make it, this whole "oh I'm going to respond to say I'm not responding" just makes you look like you're huffy about the post because you can't argue it.

daixi wrote:

Dude, seriously. I read the Harry Potter books because I enjoy them not because I need things to be "dumbed down".
If I want to read "clever literature with the elements you describe" then I would, will and do at my own leisure and pace.
I'm one of the hundreds, thousands, millions of adults who doesn't need your acceptance to read and enjoy what I want to enjoy. And on that note I don't need people trying to ruin what I want to enjoy..

p.s. On that note Famous Five sucked when I was a kid, don't see how it's any better now that I'm not. Though you won't see me trying to stop anyone from reading it if they like.

I'm not trying to stop anyone reading it, I don't think I actually said that reading it was the issue I was taking. The issue I have is the adulation for Rowling and the HP series as some kind of "saviour of modern literature" when really she's just someone churning out formulaic rehashes and capitalising on it. If I'm bored, I'll read the bloodyback of a cereal box, but I won't claim it's well written, intelligent and contributes to the world as a whole. In the same way, the act of Harry Potter fans placing Rowling on a pedestal is laughable.

P.S. I didn't like the famous five either, but I see the formula in both series (and it was nesf that pointed it out).

ixoy

FWIW, the Sunday Times has an article today about the literary quality of the HP series. It's not too serious, but the crux of its point is that it's not particularly well written, won't be remembered in the long term, but is highly enjoyable.

randylonghorn

psi wrote:

Except when it promptly puts them back at the console playing over-priced low quality games cashing in on the franchise... oh and watching the movies...

May be true for some, I admit. On the other hand, my cousin fell for the HP books when he was about 13. I loaned him my old CS Lewis "Narnia" set, he then swiped Feist and Tolkien, and went on to hoover up my bookshelves like a coke addict in overdrive; he's currently on a Dickens splurge. Result, tbh!

psi wrote:

Even in kids books terms, Narnia is a much better series story line with better writing

Agreed.

psi wrote:

but its not going to attract kids because the english isn't in the modern dialect.

Sometimes yes, sometimes no. One case where the movie may actually have helped ...

Btw, does someone want to throw this thread over to AH or somewhere (HP forum prob. not the best choice ¬_¬ ) ... it's gone way off Feedback at this stage!

ecksor

On behalf of boards.ie, I'd like to thank you all for your Feedback and also to remind you that reading stupid arguments on Internet message boards is much more entertaining and rewarding than reading any smelly old book.

Thank you.

regi

I'd often rather read harry potter than feedback