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Pleasantly plump people - genetic or laziness?

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    #122
    darkman2
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 8,632 ✭✭✭darkman2


    Dudess wrote:


    Yes he did. He said he believes upbringing plays a role.


    I most certainly did. What I did not say was that parents brought their kids up to be gay!:mad:


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    #123
    darkman2
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 8,632 ✭✭✭darkman2


    Dudess wrote:
    I take it you ascertained I'm a gay man on the strength of the following quote by me:

    I'm actually female. I just used myself to illustrate how a person's sexuality isn't dictated by outside influences - in my case it's heterosexuality. So I guess I'm a member of the middle-class PC brigade.

    Although if I was a gay man, I could still be a member of the middle-class PC brigade.


    So your not gay now? OK thats settled. Therefore all my posts stand:cool:


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    #124
    Dudess
    Closed Accounts Posts: 37,214 ✭✭✭✭Dudess


    How would a person's upbringing have a bearing on their (homo)sexuality so?


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    #125
    darkman2
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 8,632 ✭✭✭darkman2


    Dudess wrote:
    How would a person's upbringing have a bearing on their (homo)sexuality so?


    It has a bearing. The implication of what you said is that I said that parents brought their kids up to be gay. Im talking about more subtle environments they may be exposed to unintentionally not that parents do it on purpose.....down with this sort of mis-representation :mad:


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    #126
    cooperguy
    Registered Users Posts: 2,650 ✭✭✭cooperguy


    darkman2 wrote:
    It has a bearing. The implication of what you said is that I said that parents brought their kids up to be gay. Im talking about more subtle environments they may be exposed to unintentionally not that parents do it on purpose.....down with this sort of mis-representation :mad:


    Can I ask what subtle influences make a child gay? In your opinion.


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    #127
    Dudess
    Closed Accounts Posts: 37,214 ✭✭✭✭Dudess


    Yeah, I'm not trying to be smart. I really don't know what you mean. Maybe you could be specific.
    And the way you were going to address me differently because you thought I was gay - why? Your beliefs are the same, irrespective of whether you're sharing them with a gay or straight person.


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    #128
    darkman2
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 8,632 ✭✭✭darkman2


    Dudess wrote:
    Yeah, I'm not trying to be smart. I really don't know what you mean. Maybe you could be specific.
    And the way you were going to address me differently because you thought I was gay - why? Your beliefs are the same, irrespective of whether you're sharing them with a gay or straight person.

    Because what your failing to differentiate here is that I dont have any problem with gay people......what I do have a problem with is people who are not gay claiming to speak on their behave like they were preaching at a pulpit and telling us all how tolerant we should be because its 'natural'......despite the fact that no one has been intolerant on this thread. So essentially your trying to start an argument to suit your own agenda against something that is not even happening. Sh!t stirring is another term for it.


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    #129
    MooseJam
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,111 ✭✭✭MooseJam


    Dudess wrote:
    How would a person's upbringing have a bearing on their (homo)sexuality so?

    well if they were brought up on a desert island with only men i'd say it's safe to bet they would engage in homosexual sex !


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    #130
    Dudess
    Closed Accounts Posts: 37,214 ✭✭✭✭Dudess


    Ok MooseJam, but the majority aren't.
    darkman2 wrote:
    Because what your failing to differentiate here is that I dont have any problem with gay people
    I know you said that, but you do fail to accept that their orientation is natural.
    what I do have a problem with is people who are not gay claiming to speak on their behave like they were preaching at a pulpit and telling us all how tolerant we should be because its 'natural'......despite the fact that no one has been intolerant on this thread. So essentially your trying to start an argument to suit your own agenda against something that is not even happening. Sh!t stirring is another term for it.
    I don't have an "agenda". Homosexuality is natural. Go over the LGBT forum and ask people what factors in their upbringing (subtle or otherwise) determined their sexual orientation.
    And to use a phrase from our childhoods: you started it.


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    #131
    JC 2K3
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,794 ✭✭✭JC 2K3


    How would one know about the subtle factors influencing their childhood?

    Our psychology isn't black and white like that.


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    #132
    nesf
    Registered Users Posts: 27,645 ✭✭✭✭nesf


    Smellyirishman wrote:
    Originally, I would have been with you, you're born gay, but people have provided some great food for thought and I'm beginning to see boths sides. You're physically attracted to men now, but what if, from the day you were born, you were raised/taught to find women attractive? Just like now you would never steal, but if you had been raised to do it...

    One of the most important factors that most people don't realise how strong an influence peers are. You need to look beyond parents, which complicates things to a large extent.

    It's a very complex question, and I'm not sold on either side of it to be honest. I also don't get why people are making this into a polar argument where you're either saying it's all genetic or all environment. Seriously, that's just lazy debating people. :p


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    #133
    Dudess
    Closed Accounts Posts: 37,214 ✭✭✭✭Dudess


    I'm just surprised that there are those who can't accept that it's simply the person's natural sexual leaning. I really think it's as straightforward as that. Guys who fancy guys, girls who fancy girls.
    JC 2K3 wrote:
    How would one know about the subtle factors influencing their childhood?

    Our psychology isn't black and white like that.
    Well then darkman2's argument that it's caused by factors in our upbringing is even weaker.


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    #134
    Shryke
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,199 ✭✭✭Shryke


    Dudess wrote:
    I'm just surprised that there are those who can't accept that it's simply the person's natural sexual leaning. I really think it's as straightforward as that. Guys who fancy guys, girls who fancy girls.


    Well then darkman2's argument that it's caused by factors in our upbringing is even weaker.

    You don't seem too informed. I'm not picking sides here but your coming off as someone who knows very very little about psychology. I'm no expert but I have some base knowledge, maybe if you reread the post I made earlier and mull it over you might see the arguement from the other side a little clearer. Your view is rather childish, you're just saying its that way because its that way and thats all there is too it! Things are not so simple and clear cut. The mind least of all.
    And now I'm done with this topic. It's turned into a shouting match. Sooo...
    BYE!
    *runs away naked*


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    #135
    Dudess
    Closed Accounts Posts: 37,214 ✭✭✭✭Dudess


    But what has psychology got to do with it?! If a person's gay, they're gay! What has how the mind works got to do with it?! Seriously!
    Like I advised another poster: go over to LGBT and use the "psychology" argument.


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    #136
    nesf
    Registered Users Posts: 27,645 ✭✭✭✭nesf


    Dudess wrote:
    But what has psychology got to do with it?! If a person's gay, they're gay! What has how the mind works got to do with it?! Seriously!
    Like I advised another poster: go over to LGBT and use the "psychology" argument.

    Sandor has a point. This topic is a lot more complicated than you seem to believe.


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    #137
    JC 2K3
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,794 ✭✭✭JC 2K3


    We're talking about how one comes to be heterosexual or homosexual in the first place.

    AFAIK, there is no concrete scientific evidence saying that my heterosexuality is based on my genes and not my nurture.

    As my point has been throughout this topic, we haven't got any concrete evidence in relation to how one forms their sexual orientation and anyone claiming any belief of theirs regarding this matter is a fact is ignorant. However, considering homosexuality harms no one, I don't see the necessity for any debate on the subject.


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    #138
    eirebhoy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,013 ✭✭✭✭eirebhoy


    I personally eat a huge amount of crap every day and don't put on any weight. The same goes for everyone in my family. The amount of food we eat has to be seen to be believed btw.

    /edit - I just posted this without reading thread so it looks a bit out of place now. :D


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    #139
    Dudess
    Closed Accounts Posts: 37,214 ✭✭✭✭Dudess


    JC 2K3: So you see a particular girl and you find yourself wildly sexually attracted to her and just looking at her gives you a hard-on - you believe there's a possibility that this isn't simply innate, that it could be due to nurturing?

    Nesf, I'm trying to think outside the box, but the theory that a person's sexuality is just innate and natural seems the most logical to me.


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    #140
    nesf
    Registered Users Posts: 27,645 ✭✭✭✭nesf


    JC 2K3 wrote:
    However, considering homosexuality harms no one, I don't see the necessity for any debate on the subject.

    Um, why would that make a debate unnecessary? Would it really change something fundamental if homosexuality was found to be caused by conditions in the womb?


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    #141
    nesf
    Registered Users Posts: 27,645 ✭✭✭✭nesf


    Dudess wrote:
    Nesf, I'm trying to think outside the box, but the theory that a person's sexuality is just innate and natural seems the most logical to me.

    Yes, but the debate is broader than just holding a belief that it is innate which is what Sandor was getting at. You haven't really expanded your logic very much either tbh. This is not an ethical question or a religious question where it is purely normative. This is a descriptive question which innately goes beyond unsubstantiated belief.


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    #142
    nesf
    Registered Users Posts: 27,645 ✭✭✭✭nesf


    eirebhoy wrote:
    /edit - I just posted this without reading thread so it looks a bit out of place now. :D

    Oih, get back off-topic would you? :p


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    #143
    Dudess
    Closed Accounts Posts: 37,214 ✭✭✭✭Dudess


    nesf wrote:
    Oih, get back off-topic would you? :p
    :D
    I'm not annoyed that people don't agree with me but I am very surprised that people are willing to give the "nurturing" argument a chance.
    If you were gay, would you not be annoyed by the above?


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    #144
    2 stroke
    Registered Users Posts: 2,921 ✭✭✭2 stroke


    Was wondering why this thread was attracting so many posts. Its been off topic for about 7 pages? (didn't read it all as usual)
    Anyway to add my 2 cents.
    Being gay or straight is genetic. Being a practising homosexual or hetrosexual is a choice. I could not get an erection looking at naked men or watching gay porn. I can get an errection looking at women dressed or naked. Also get erection watching female and couple porn. For me to choose to have homosexual sex would require considerable fluffing, though I do fantasize about a threesome with a couple.


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    #145
    Terry
    Registered Users Posts: 26,061 ✭✭✭✭Terry


    eirebhoy wrote:
    I personally eat a huge amount of crap every day and don't put on any weight. The same goes for everyone in my family. The amount of food we eat has to be seen to be believed btw.

    /edit - I just posted this without reading thread so it looks a bit out of place now. :D
    What age are you?


    I ate huge amounts of crap throughout my teen years and I was underweight.

    It catches up with you once you reach a certain age.*

    *depends on each individual.


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    #146
    darkman2
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 8,632 ✭✭✭darkman2


    I may as well have started a thread on gay people. Oh well, either the mods get things straight here (no pun intended:D ) or the off-topicness will continue!


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    #147
    2 stroke
    Registered Users Posts: 2,921 ✭✭✭2 stroke


    If you had started a thread on gays it would probably have been shutdown by now. This one seems to have remained hidden from the gaybashers.


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    #148
    spooiirt!!
    Closed Accounts Posts: 482 ✭✭spooiirt!!


    Fat people do not deserve respect.


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    #149
    tallus
    Registered Users Posts: 6,324 ✭✭✭tallus


    spooiirt!! wrote:
    Fat people do not deserve respect.
    Poor Buddah :D


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    #150
    Mahatma coat
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 6,869 ✭✭✭Mahatma coat


    I think its important to make a distinction between what is 'Fat' and what is morbidly Obese. Beer bellies, love handles, a bit of roundyness, that sort of thing, nowt wrong with it, lots of people are comfortble with their weight and its not a problem.

    some people however are an unhealthy size, where to draw the line is difficult, I would say that if yer skin has folds or you have something like Bingowings thn you're too Fat nad it needs to be addressed, but the solution is definitley not a free scooter.


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    #151
    Dev 17
    Registered Users Posts: 588 ✭✭✭Dev 17


    There is a considerable list of animals in which homosexuality has been observed naturally
    "I see it otherwise" isn't going to prove you anything

    I disagree, being gay is fine I see nothing wrong with what people do in their lives or bedrooms it's consensual and there is no harm. We all know this.

    However justifying homosexuality on the grounds that if animals do it, it automatically makes it acceptable and natural. It is of course acceptable but the grounds for your reasoning in concluding that are flawed.

    It has also been observed that some animals are racist in their own species. Grey squirrels killing red squirrels for instance. Animals are not a role model for human behavior.

    I hope you see where I'm coming from.


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