PC-ness gone mad?

Huggles

Ok another roma thread. I don't want it to descend into racist madness but I was quite fascinated by this quote from here: http://www.rte.ie/news/2007/0718/roma.html

A coalition of charity organisations has called for urgent action to address what it is describing as an humanitarian crisis.

Its to do with the Romas living on the Ballymun roundabout, the ones that want houses for nothing, the very same Romas that travel from place to place, camping and the like as part of their culture and tradition

So I am asking, is this Political Correctness gone mad? Why do these charities feel responsible?

Terry

Either they are quite clever or really ****ing stupid.

Camp in Ballymun, one of the roughest parts of the country.
The bleeding hearts feel compassion for the inevitable racism (even though it's probably just a few 7 year olds stealing eggs from their homes and throwing them at the Romas) and then put pressure on the government to house these people.

Perhaps the Romas have finally reached the place they've been travelling around looking for all these centuries.

Tha Gopher

If you are a waster, a criminal, with no intention of working but find yourself in a bad situation, Pavee Point is here to help *(terms and conditions apply- suitable recipients of assistance must be of Irish traveller or Roma heritage)


Refugees stuck living by the side of the road in Ethiopia having fled Somali fighting.....yep, humanitarian issue right there. Roma who came from wherever and thought "if we camp in a forest in a bad state long enough the government will be shamed into helping us" but found, amazingly, that the goverment wants nothing to do with them, thats not a humanitarian crisis, its open air squatting.

oneeyedsnake

With all this rain it wouldn't take much for a juggernaut to aqua plane and take the lot of them out, that would be a bit of a crisis

mike65

They could move then

Mike.

ShowUsYourXbox

If i went to their country with nothing, could i sign on for a house? or even living money?

Actually, what are the policies of all Poland, Lithuania, Latvia etc on foreign nationals coming in and needing assistance?

Huggles

Tha Gopher wrote:

stuck living by the side of the road in Ethiopia having fled Somali fighting.....yep, humanitarian issue right there. Roma who came from wherever and thought "if we camp in a forest in a bad state long enough the government will be shamed into helping us" but found, amazingly, that the goverment wants nothing to do with them, thats not a humanitarian crisis, its open air squatting.

Thats my point by all means take in and help the victims of humanitarian crisis and I also have no problem with poles etc that are here working and contributing to society.

The Romas are in their own league altogether and I am fascinated by this 'care' and 'concern' expressed by these charities.

Sure come to Ireland we'll take yee if you sit in your own piss long enough :mad:

EDIT: I Meant to say that my sister lives in Sweden and they have same trouble with the Turks and they are rounded up and promptly deported.

Whe don't we do that here?

Tha Gopher

The UK government treats Irish travellers there better and gives them even more assistance than the Irish government (much to the annoyance of villages around London they have camped near). The Romanian/wherever government probably has the same attitude the Irish have- we are rid of them, and if there is a foreign government willing to take their crap, let them. Maybe the Roma are taking the same position as our travellers- after all, they stayed at the side of the road for years and complained about self imposed living conditions, then they were given free housing on prime land in Dublin. Or how about Dunsink, if the Ballymun Roma can only last 19 years and 3 months more in the woods its ching ching time

TheGooner

TheGooner wrote:

Thats my point by all means take in and help the victims of humanitarian crisis and I also have no problem with poles etc that are here working and contributing to society.

The Romas are in their own league altogether and I am fascinated by this 'care' and 'concern' expressed by these charities.

Sure come to Ireland we'll take yee if you sit in your own piss long enough :mad:

EDIT: I Meant to say that my sister lives in Sweden and they have same trouble with the Turks and they are rounded up and promptly deported.

Whe don't we do that here?

Because no politician has the balls to make the decision. Too afraid of the pc media backlash.

0ubliette

Jesus christ if id known it was this easy to get a free house in Ireland id have taken my 2 man tent and a gas stove down to the ballymun roundabout years ago. Anyone here want a free house? Care to join me in a sleepover down ballymun?

Stark

I think we should find a Scout camp and bring them to the attention of Pavee point

MooseJam

are they actually living in a roundabout, bit noisy i would have thought, have they got caravans or are they living in boxes

Huggles

MooseJam wrote:

are they actually living in a roundabout, bit noisy i would have thought, have they got caravans or are they living in boxes

In roundabout with tarpulins above them, pic on rte site

Duggy747

I can see a vicious cycle forming here:

Input

1. Roma parks their keysters at Ballymun or wherever else miserable.

2. Government gives in / charities hearts melts and give them free houses.

3. Given welfare or job oppertunities.

Output

1. More Roma's on streets selling flashy crap, roses & balloons.

2. More Roma's hear of this, come over here, repeat steps 1 - 3.

Total

Ireland is nothing more but an island that sells flashy crap, roses & balloons


We need action *cocks shotgun*

Mrs_Doyle

Terry wrote:

Either they are quite clever or really ****ing stupid.

Camp in Ballymun, one of the roughest parts of the country.
The bleeding hearts feel compassion for the inevitable racism (even though it's probably just a few 7 year olds stealing eggs from their homes and throwing them at the Romas) and then put pressure on the government to house these people.

Perhaps the Romas have finally reached the place they've been travelling around looking for all these centuries.

I'm gonna go with very ****ing clever!

They could have set up camp anywhere, but why pick a remote location when you can set yourself up in the direct line of 'antisocial and racist' fire?

By placing themselves in Ballymun they guaranteed themselves a bit of controversy, which would be undisputed by anyone in the media, or authority, putting pressure on the government to fast track any kind of housing procedure.

Agent Smith

if they are EU citizens, make them get jobs
if not, Deport them

0ubliette

TheGooner wrote:

In roundabout with tarpulins above them, pic on rte site

While it is a terrible way to live, and i dont like seeing anyone live in such conditions, the fact thet they are voluntarily putting themselves in these squalid living conditions in the hope that the PC brigade will do enough hand wringing and crying until they get free accomodation nullifies any sympathy i would have for them. There are Irish homeless people who've lived rough for alot longer, who are far more deserving of any accommodation the goverment would give out. Let them rot, for all i care.

speaktofrank

Deport them all. They contribute nothing to Irish society. i have no problem with people coming here and working, paying their taxes as many Eastern Europeans do, what I don't like are wasters and beggars coming here thinking they will get free housing/social welfare for nothing. I really don't see why they were admitted in the first place.

Huggles

Better article here taken from ireland.com

Group calls for aid for M50 Roma gypsies
Clodagh Mulvey

An extended family of over 50 Roma gypsies encamped on the M50 roundabout at Ballymun are being subjected to racist abuse, a coalition of charities and NGOs claimed today.

Calling for state intervention to help the Rostas family, who have been living in the open for nearly two months, the coalition group says it is seeking immediate action to end what it describes as a "humanitarian crisis".

Sara Russell, Roma co-ordinator with Pavee Point travellers centre told ireland.com the family is being adversely affected by legislation introduced by the Irish Government prior to Romania joining the EU which prevents them from availing of social welfare assistance. As a result, she says, the Rostas are being forced to live in "horrific conditions".

Romanians are restricted from working in Ireland unless they have a work visa or are self-employed, although they do have freedom of movement within the EU.

Under a "habitual residency" condition of their right to travel to Ireland - introduced by the Government to prevent "welfare tourism" - Romanians and other former accession country nationals are unable to access social welfare unless they can prove they are normally resident in Ireland or plan to remain in the country for a long period of time.

Thirty-two adults and 22 children are currently living on the roundabout without running water, sanitation, adequate heat or shelter and recently, members of the public have visited the site hurling verbal abuse and throwing eggs at the family, Ms Russell said.

"The roundabout is infested with rubbish and vermin and due to the location of the makeshift camp the risk of injury or fatality from a traffic accident is of serious concern. In order to avert a road accident and a public health crisis we are seeking urgent humanitarian intervention," she added.

Ms Russell said the four Dublin local authorities and the HSE homeless persons unit are responsible for providing emergency accommodation for the family.

"These agencies need to act immediately to assist these families in leaving the roundabout and into emergency accommodation," she said.

Ms Russell also insisted the HSE has a statutory obligation under the Child Care Act 1991 to protect and promote the welfare of all the children in the State.

Sposs

32 adults and none of them think to sort out a job before they arrive? The laws brought in were to stop this exact thing happening, deport them, no exceptions!

ejmaztec

It seems that the Czechs are now getting the backlash for not "looking after" their Roma population.

http://www.radio.cz/en/news/#1

"Press: Czech government may compensate forced sterilisation
An advisory body to the Czech Government Council for Human Rights has proposed financial compensation of up to 200,000 crowns (almost 10,000 USD) for the victims of forced sterilisation, mainly Romany women, in the country, the daily Lidove noviny reports on Tuesday. The Government Council is to debate the proposal in September, the paper adds. The Council's advisory body, the Committee for Biomedicine and Human Rights, has worked out a plan of compensating the women and at least one man who were sterilised without their consent in the past. The paper writes that the possible compensation would apply to cases of forced sterilisation performed between 1966 and 1991."


Perhaps the Irish Government doesn't want to get sued.

Esmereldina

TheGooner wrote:

Romanians are restricted from working in Ireland unless they have a work visa or are self-employed, although they do have freedom of movement within the EU.

I think this is where the problem lies... While immediate access to welfare is another issue, the freedom of movement without freedom to work is completely unjust, and results in situations like this, as well as the Roma begging etc that is so visible in the city.

Humanitarian crisis me arse. A humanitarian crisis in my opinion is something like whats happening in Darfur. Watching it on RTE now and I have zero sympathy for them. Why don't our own homeless people get this much attention. These people were able to afford to travel all across Europe to live at a roundabout ffs. Deport the freeloading squatters immediately.

Duggy747

By not having a work visa how are these people going to donate to society exactly? Are the government getting secret revenues off the purchasing of roses and balloons??

Government Goon: "Sir, rose profits are up 23% from Friday & Saturday night working hours of the previous month."
Government Poncho: "Excellent, soon our plan will be complete!!"
Governement Goon: "What would that be sir?"
Governement Poncho: "Not to stand our ground or stretch our neutrality by any means"

Huggles

Duggy747 wrote:

By not having a work visa how are these people going to donate to society exactly? Are the government getting secret revenues off the purchasing of roses and balloons??

That was put in place to deter them from coming here at all.

They have no intention of working.

stipey

Duggy747 wrote:

Government Poncho: "Excellent, soon our plan will be complete!!"

Ooooh! I want a government poncho!. What colours do they come in? Oh and do they have special pockets big enough to hold my brown envelopes and "dig out" proceeds?

Where would I get one? Maybe from a Government Honcho?

Esmereldina

TheGooner wrote:

That was put in place to deter them from coming here at all.

They have no intention of working.

But how can you know that they have no intention of working if they aren't given the opportunity?

Sposs

If they had any intention they would have sourced work and made sure visa's were in order before they arrived like the hundreds of thousands of other immigrants who come here to work.

Huggles

Esmereldina wrote:

But how can you know that they have no intention of working if they aren't given the opportunity?

We have been through this already in after hours and we learnt that it is there culture and tradition to lie, cheat, beg, steal and basically live a totally lawless life.

Terry

ejmaztec wrote:

It seems that the Czechs are now getting the backlash for not "looking after" their Roma population.

http://www.radio.cz/en/news/#1

"Press: Czech government may compensate forced sterilisation
An advisory body to the Czech Government Council for Human Rights has proposed financial compensation of up to 200,000 crowns (almost 10,000 USD) for the victims of forced sterilisation, mainly Romany women, in the country, the daily Lidove noviny reports on Tuesday. The Government Council is to debate the proposal in September, the paper adds. The Council's advisory body, the Committee for Biomedicine and Human Rights, has worked out a plan of compensating the women and at least one man who were sterilised without their consent in the past. The paper writes that the possible compensation would apply to cases of forced sterilisation performed between 1966 and 1991."


Perhaps the Irish Government doesn't want to get sued.

Yeah, I don't think anyone is suggesting following the example of a former eastern bloc country.

At least Irish travellers have the foresight to get a caravan.

Stark

Sara Russell wrote:

The roundabout is infested with rubbish and vermin

What a horrible thing to call them

mike65

Its on rte lunchtime news right now. The message is they want to stay but they can't work (visa laws) the government has said it'll pay to fly them out.

Pavee Point say an info campaign in Romania etc is required to warn them of just turning up.

Mike.

Esmereldina

TheGooner wrote:

We have been through this already in after hours and we learnt that it is there culture and tradition to lie, cheat, beg, steal and basically live a totally lawless life.

Indeed. Just as it was the culture of the masses of Irish people emigrating to Britain and the US in the last 2 centuries (I'm talking about attitutes towards Irish emigrants particularly in late nineteenth and early twentieth century though) to be lazy, smelly alcoholics? There is usually a certain amount of truth in every stereotype, but that doesn't mean that you can generalise about a whole nation/ethnic group because of it.

Huggles

Esmereldina wrote:

Indeed. Just as it was the culture of the masses of Irish people emigrating to Britain and the US in the last 2 centuries (I'm talking about attitutes towards Irish emigrants particularly in late nineteenth and early twentieth century though) to be lazy, smelly alcoholics? There is usually a certain amount of truth in every stereotype, but that doesn't mean that you can generalise about a whole nation/ethnic group because of it.

That is true, but do you know any Roma gypsys personally that work hard at a legitimate 9-5?

Yes you can say that about the irish back then but it was NEVER our culture or tradition.

Tha Gopher

Most Irish people are alcoholics in comparison to some other European countries. Its a fair stereotype which I have no problem with.

But the Irish were never considered lazy. Drunks, yes and correctly. Hard working navies who built the US? Yes, and correctly.

Tha Gopher

TheGooner wrote:

That is true, but do you know any Roma gypsys personally that work hard at a legitimate 9-5?

Yes you can say that about the irish back then but it was NEVER our culture or tradition.

Ive met about 5 Roma with jobs, two of whom I knew (dodgy feckers). Ive yet to see a traveller in a workplace (Im sure there are some, but Ive personally interacted via work over the past few years with maybe 500 people in all, never met one nor been served by one anywhere). And in all honesty i would argue that heavy drinking is a part of our culture, in the same way a taste for Spanish fine wines or Italian cuisine is the defining feature of their cultures.

dulpit

Ok, I'm not too familiar with the while immigration laws etc. regarding the new EU countries but am I right if i summarise like this:


All citizens of the new EU countries can go anywhere they want throughout the EU (including Ireland)
These new citizens are NOT allowed work unless they have a Visa
A Visa is available if they are able to contribute to our society?


That basically it? And am I right in saying so that the Roma are free to come here if they want, but only to work if they go about getting a Visa?

What the government should do is get all the Roma together, go through the whole visa stuff, anybody who is qualified or something to work here can stay, the rest of them can bog off home...

And one other thing, imagine if 30 odd homeless dudes moved into a roundabout (what a random place to move) would all the charities come along and plea on their behalf? Or would the Gardaí be called to remove them fairly sharpish? I suspect the second to be honest...

um7y1h83ge06nx

Why don't the knackers in Pavee Point house them in their own caravans and stop bítching and moaning?

Stark

dulpit wrote:

A Visa is available if they are able to contribute to our society?

Visas are available for jobs where there's a skills shortage. Nursing would be the most prominent example I can think of.

Terry

Tha Gopher wrote:

Ive met about 5 Roma with jobs, two of whom I knew (dodgy feckers). Ive yet to see a traveller in a workplace (Im sure there are some, but Ive personally interacted via work over the past few years with maybe 500 people in all, never met one nor been served by one anywhere). And in all honesty i would argue that heavy drinking is a part of our culture, in the same way a taste for Spanish fine wines or Italian cuisine is the defining feature of their cultures.

Worked with a traveller a few years back.
He was on the job at 5am and worked until 7pm every day.

Mac daddy

The Goverment should take a good long look at the streets of dublin and sort out the poor fellas living on the streets for years instead of giving in to these roma's.

They were aware they wouldn't be able to work if they came to Ireland so why bother moving here in the first place?
The polish and the latvians and the chinese are a great bunch of people out working as much as they can paying taxes, but these romas i'm sorry but get rid of them send them back home and let them try there luck in some other country.

It's not as Pavee claims it is "humanitarian crisis" just look at the people in africa they have absolutley nothing.

As for the Visa yes its for people who's skills are low or not available in the country and not for Roma who's main source of money is selling baloons and roses and in general trying to rip people off.
We have enough problems here without them adding to it.

stevedublin

agent smith wrote:

if they are EU citizens, make them get jobs
if not, Deport them

Why? can you give them jobs?

Duggy747

stevedublin wrote:

Why? can you give them jobs?

I'll give them a job; Fúck off!! Pay ain't great but it's very rewarding.........for me.

Just there at lunch I had one of the Roma gypsies litteraly corner me and was swinging a balloon and those flashy things at me face. Obviously I gave her a stern look and promptly kept walking to which I heard her cursing at me, bitch! I've no time for those people and I find it disgusting that it's even considered a "humanitarian crisis" in Ballymun! What, did we fix our own Irish homeless problem overnight?

Slow Motion

I've said it before and will keep saying it, we have enough homegrown problems without importing them ! So to the bleeding hearts out there who prolly can't wait to shout racist at me I ask, how many Roma do you know that have a job ? How many are here ? How many have applied for a work visa ? How many have been granted one ? How many have sought asylum and how many have been granted it ? I only have anecdotal data to go on such as the obversations of those on the boards and my own experiences, so by all means provide me with the statistics that show that this particular group of people will add value to this society economically or culturally !

Duggy747

Slow Motion wrote:

I've said it before and will keep saying it, we have enough homegrown problems without importing them ! So to the bleeding hearts out there who prolly can't wait to shout racist at me I ask, how many Roma do you know that have a job ? How many are here ? How many have applied for a work visa ? How many have been granted one ? How many have sought asylum and how many have been granted it ? I only have anecdotal data to go on such as the obversations of those on the boards and my own experiences, so by all means provide me with the statistics that show that this particular group of people will add value to this society economically or culturally !

Jesus Christ, Slo-Mo, chill out. You don't need to get all...................oh wait, you're actually 200% correct! My shítes do more for society than they do!

Slow Motion

Duggy747 wrote:

Jesus Christ, Slo-Mo, chill out. You don't need to get all...................oh wait, you're actually 200% correct! My shítes do more for society than they do!

I'm not wound up actually, but I would love to see someone coming up with some numbers to my questions, however I am more likely to get rabidly PC bull$hit responses, ah well they'll be entertaining too :rolleyes:

Duggy747

Slow Motion wrote:

I'm not wound up actually, but I would love to see someone coming up with some numbers to my questions, however I am more likely to get rabidly PC bull$hit responses, ah well they'll be entertaining too :rolleyes:

I propose we head back to the BGRH bar, it could be quite some time!!

Slow Motion

Duggy747 wrote:

I propose we head back to the BGRH bar, it could be quite some time!!

Pint ?

Edit : Geeeoorrrggggeeee Hooook is on the radio talking about it now !

stevedublin

Duggy747 wrote:

I'll give them a job;

Thats not a proper job !!!

_Kaiser_

Was just on the RTE News about this...

Solution is very simple.. send them home. The Irish as a nation are great for trying to save the world, and falling over ourselves in these modern times not to appear racist or un-PC, which in itself isn't a bad idea really.

However, when the system is being abused as it is and people like this who CHOSE to come here and CHOOSE to live on the side of a motorway can cause a national outcry, things have gone too far.

Charity begins at home folks.. as someone said above, we should be sorting out our own problems before taking on everyone elses.

Slow Motion

http://rte.ie/news/2007/0719/roma.html

I wonder how this will play out !