Navy to get E180m New Ships.

Steyr

from sunday independent

Navy to get €180m of new ships


Sunday July 15 2007

DON LAVERY

THE biggest ever Irish defence contract, worth €180m, comes up for grabs next month via an order by the Naval Service for three ships.

The order will also see the Navy operate its biggest ever ship, a new multi-role vessel (MRV) which will cost up to €100m and prove able to carry around 200 troops and 15-20 armoured Mowag vehicles to any part of the world.

Defence Minister Willie O'Dea is to go to Cabinet within the next 10 days to get approval for the vessels.

With a new civilian rapid response corps of volunteers being set up to help in the latest natural disaster, it will also give Ireland for the first time a transport asset to be used in humanitarian missions.

The new craft will replace the existing patrol ships, LE Emer, LE Aoife and LE Aisling, which have served for 30 years in the Naval Service.

Santa Claus

Why would we need a ship that's capable of carrying armoured vehicles ?

I mean our only troop deployments are under the UN peace keeping trips, so surely they'd be better getting 2 smaller ships as we need a larger number of ships to do drug/fishery patrols ?

muletide

Santa Claus wrote:

Why would we need a ship that's capable of carrying armoured vehicles ?

I mean our only troop deployments are under the UN peace keeping trips, so surely they'd be better getting 2 smaller ships as we need a larger number of ships to do drug/fishery patrols ?

And how do they get the armoured vehicles out to those spots. And what about equipment how does that get out there.

Think about it before posting.

Santa Claus

muletide wrote:

And how do they get the armoured vehicles out to those spots. And what about equipment how does that get out there.

Think about it before posting.

Well if you've thought about it then explain to me what do we do at present ? I mean we don't have any ships capable of carrying vehicles at the moment so how do we get our vehicles over there ????

Heraldoffreeent

I suggest you take a look at this thread from the IMO site

http://forum.irishmilitaryonline.com/showthread.php?t=1718

which discusses the MRV (multirole vessel) and the requirements thereof,basically its to move troops and mowags in situations like Liberia, resupply which I think has been done by Niamh and eithne to lebanon, and also to move humanitarian aid.

By the way it can also carry out FP and drugs interdiction when not oping in ablue water environment.
Personally I'm glad to see the NS getting larger ships...........now if only t'were a couple of Frigates............................*waltering*!!!!

Steyr

Santa Claus wrote:

Why would we need a ship that's capable of carrying armoured vehicles ?

Your joking right? Places like The Port Of Monrovia In Liberia come to mind..Why not do it ourselves instead of relying on some other Nation.

Steyr

Tenders invited for new Navy ship
18/07/2007 - 17:56:27

The Government is to invite tenders for the first of three new Naval ships later this year, Minister for Defence Willie O’Dea revealed today.

The vessels, expected to cost the taxpayer between €150m and €190m, are set to replace older boats in the fleet.

Mr O’Dea believes the new ships will help the Defence Forces back up the Garda and Customs and Excise in the offshore fight against drugs.

“Planning for this has been under way for some time,” he said, launching the Annual Report of the Department of Defence and Defence Forces for 2006, aboard the Naval ship LE Eithne.

He said: “Between now and 2010 three of the older vessels will reach 30 years service and will be due for replacement.”

It is expected the Department of Defence will be in a position to place a contract for the country’s newest Naval ship early in 2008.

“This level of investment cannot be met from within the existing defence resources, so I will be seeking the support of my Government colleagues on this matter and will be bringing proposals to Government very shortly,” said Mr O’Dea.

This year, the total defence budget exceeded €1bn for the first time, according to the minister.

The annual report also showed seven members of the Defence Forces were discharged from duty last year for failing drugs tests.

It is the fourth year of the tests, which saw the same number dismissed in 2005 and four discharged in each of the two previous years.

Manic Moran

Santa Claus wrote:

Why would we need a ship that's capable of carrying armoured vehicles ?

I mean our only troop deployments are under the UN peace keeping trips, so surely they'd be better getting 2 smaller ships as we need a larger number of ships to do drug/fishery patrols ?

This is what the Danes have just bought to do the same job. It's a little better-equipped than anything Ireland is likely to buy (Egads, it has missiles), but the concept is the same: A dual patrol/combat role with the ability to move a small intervention force of about a company size of armoured vehicles to wherever it is that the Danish peacekeeping troops are going to go.

http://picasaweb.google.com/jcap59/HDMSL17EsbernSnare02

There is some precedent in Irish use, I believe: LE Ferdia, which was a transport leased for a short while in the 1970s but proved not to be particularly good at patrolling.

NTM

irishsurfer

This is a good thing, these vesels should serve well for 30 years into the future.

The Danish vessel with the stern ramp and space for APC etc. is a further varient of the Thetis Class, an outstanding vessel perfectly suited to Irish HPV needs.
As I said before here, the Thetis / Flex class is an off the shelf solution.

The Thetis was a frigate sized vessel, designed to allow modular expansion.

With the 'Flex' system (its been around for a bit) it means the vessels are modular and can be fitted quickly with containerised packages such as CIWS and SSM.

Because the systems are so automated, the main part of combat action training is done on computer run systems.
Maintainence training is a different thing. I guess they could buy one missile for the CIWS systems for technician training.

Heraldoffreeent

irishsurfer wrote:

This is a good thing, these vesels should serve well for 30 years into the future.

The Danish vessel with the stern ramp and space for APC etc. is a further varient of the Thetis Class, an outstanding vessel perfectly suited to Irish HPV needs.
As I said before here, the Thetis / Flex class is an off the shelf solution.

The Thetis was a frigate sized vessel, designed to allow modular expansion.

With the 'Flex' system (its been around for a bit) it means the vessels are modular and can be fitted quickly with containerised packages such as CIWS and SSM.

Because the systems are so automated, the main part of combat action training is done on computer run systems.
Maintainence training is a different thing. I guess they could buy one missile for the CIWS systems for technician training.

2 questions irishsurfer :
1/ Is the Thetis not a full blown armoured vessel,which would be at least €200+ and there fore out of our budget?
2/ For a ciws system/missile system in general is it not possible to use some cheap dummy round with just a piece of guidance kit in it?

MooseJam

cool, it's about time we got some new ships, hopefully they won't be used in the "war on drugs" and more appropriate uses can be found for them

irishsurfer

Thetis is a Frigate sized vessel, but basically is armed as what in Ireland we would call a Corvette.

The regular crewing is 61, and 12 passenger berths.

The ships are designed so they can be fitted with CIWS, ASM and SAM systems at short notice.
These systems may be needed in the future.

I think the ship is ideal for Irish needs.

As for the Dummy round, that is a good idea, I would have suggested it - simply because they are a cheaper option - but I'm not sure if they exist, or to what level they are suited.

arybvtcw0eolkf

MooseJam wrote:

cool, it's about time we got some new ships, hopefully they won't be used in the "war on drugs" and more appropriate uses can be found for them

More appropriate?.

Steyr

Navy's new ship kitted out for disaster aid

Sunday July 22 2007

DON LAVERY

A SURGERY and hospital for use on humanitarian missions like the 2004 tsunami will be able to be carried on a large new 3,500 ton ship for the Naval Service.

The new ship, the biggest ever operated by the Navy and costing €100m, will also have a helicopter landing pad and a range of other facilities.

Called a multi-role vessel, in a military role it will be able to carry around 200 troops and up to 20 armoured vehicles. Ireland was unable to send even one State transport ship or plane to help in the Asian tsunami. But with the new order for three new ships to be brought before the Cabinet by defence minister Willie O'Dea this week, Ireland is to develop a growing capacity to help in disaster zones.

The ship order includes two smaller patrol ships of just over 2,000 tons each. All three new ships can be used on fishery protection and anti-drug patrols armed with a standard Oto Melara 76mm gun as used on some other Navy ships, along with smaller cannon for protection against small boat terrorist attack when operating abroad.

The new vessels will replace the existing patrol ships, LE Emer, LE Aoife and LE Aisling, which all end their service lives by 2010.

The usefulness of having a secure perimeter and base and secure communications to Ireland was proven by the LE Roisin which went to Liberia before the start of Ireland's UN mission there.

A reconnaissance team which included Army Rangers was able to go into the lawless country by vehicle and return to the ship each day to prepare a report for Army HQ and the Government on the conditions Irish troops would face there.

Vorsprung

Steyr wrote:

The ship order includes two smaller patrol ships of just over 2,000 tons each. All three new ships can be used on fishery protection and anti-drug patrols armed with a standard Oto Melara 76mm gun as used on some other Navy ships, along with smaller cannon for protection against small boat terrorist attack when operating abroad.

A fair bit bigger than the Roisin Class then? Anyone got any idea what kind of design might be comparable to this description?

cyrusdvirus

Steyr, what say that we get the 3 of these out in Galway bay for the 2010 show???

irishsurfer

http://www.naval-technology.com/projects/absalon/

Pretty Good Ships, I think this is the basic idea behing the new large HPV.

Should easily cover, if not exceed, Irish requirements, but they can only be seen as part of an overall solution.

The Thetis HPV would do exactly what we need for EEZ ops, but these types, an expanded version, allows for greater overseas deployment.

They can fit 2 EH 101, which would have been a great helo for Ireland - but thats another question.

Heraldoffreeent

irishsurfer wrote:

http://www.naval-technology.com/projects/absalon/

Pretty Good Ships, I think this is the basic idea behing the new large HPV.

Should easily cover, if not exceed, Irish requirements, but they can only be seen as part of an overall solution.

The Thetis HPV would do exactly what we need for EEZ ops, but these types, an expanded version, allows for greater overseas deployment.

They can fit 2 EH 101, which would have been a great helo for Ireland - but thats another question.

Nice ships allright but absolutly no prospect of us getting one.

ex_infantry man

the naval service, army and air corp as far from what i heard will have personnel attached to this new mrv?? true or untrue i don,t know but the naval service would,nt have the man power for it as it is? there is also meant to be troop transporters onboard for beach landings, as this is currently only being done on delta,s and sea riders which would barely fit a section on board these, its puzzling me where there going to berth this huge thing as it won,t fit in the naval dockyard unless its only goin to come along side at the oil wharf?? as the le eithne,s plans were meant to be bigger but they had to be editted as the vessel would,nt have been able to come into the basin

OS119

ex_infantry man wrote:

the naval service, army and air corp as far from what i heard will have personnel attached to this new mrv?? true or untrue i don,t know but the naval service would,nt have the man power for it as it is? there is also meant to be troop transporters onboard for beach landings, as this is currently only being done on delta,s and sea riders which would barely fit a section on board these, its puzzling me where there going to berth this huge thing as it won,t fit in the naval dockyard unless its only goin to come along side at the oil wharf?? as the le eithne,s plans were meant to be bigger but they had to be editted as the vessel would,nt have been able to come into the basin

if Ireland can't find a secure berth and dry-dock for a 5,000 to 6,000ton vessel (a modern-sized frigate/destroyer, not an aircraft carrier or LPD/LHD) then its got bigger problems than the mordernization of the Naval Service.

MRV's are fairly light on crew, being much larger than OPV's they are kinder to the crew meaning the NS would actually have more manpower availability than it currently has from the same strength. the 'Army' and 'AC' bits of the ship only need to be manned when its fulfilling the 'LPD-lite' role, otherwise its just an OPV/Corvette. everything i hear suggests the IAC will take no part whatsoever in any operations from this vessel, they don't do overseas, it interferes with their social calender.

ex_infantry man

OS119 wrote:

if Ireland can't find a secure berth and dry-dock for a 5,000 to 6,000ton vessel (a modern-sized frigate/destroyer, not an aircraft carrier or LPD/LHD) then its got bigger problems than the mordernization of the Naval Service.

MRV's are fairly light on crew, being much larger than OPV's they are kinder to the crew meaning the NS would actually have more manpower availability than it currently has from the same strength. the 'Army' and 'AC' bits of the ship only need to be manned when its fulfilling the 'LPD-lite' role, otherwise its just an OPV/Corvette. everything i hear suggests the IAC will take no part whatsoever in any operations from this vessel, they don't do overseas, it interferes with their social calender.

haha social calender very good suppose shur they do nothing else now since they don,t do SAR, well they had to re touch the plans for eithne when it was being built as it was meant to be longer on the stern, apparently as well the ispat plant was meant be purchased by the naval service so ya never really know it could be possible to make the basin and naval dockyard bigger to accomadate this new vessel

irishsurfer

Dublin Docks and Rushbrook will easily fit a frigate sized vessel for Drydock/Hull survey.
I was mate on a container ship, the Clonmore, 99M we drydocked in Dublin with a lot of room to spare.

ex_infantry man

irishsurfer wrote:

Dublin Docks and Rushbrook will easily fit a frigate sized vessel for Drydock/Hull survey.
rushbrook would have no problem shur they used build ships there not so long ago, shur l.e. eithne was the last naval vessel built there and few of the other naval vessels L.E. emer, aisling, aoife and deirdre