Navy to get Power to chase Drug Ships

Steyr

Navy will get power to chase drug ships in Euro proposal
Irish Independent
Saturday July 14 2007
Tom Brady

THE Naval Service is to be given powers to chase drug traffickers on the high seas as part of a European crackdown on international criminals.

The move is now being finalised in the wake of last week's massive €107m cocaine haul, off the west Cork coastline.

Ireland is joining six other nations - the UK, France, Netherlands, Italy, Spain and Portugal - in the initiative.

The countries are to establish a joint headquarters, called MAOC-N (maritime analysis operational centre - narcotics), and it will be based in Lisbon in Portugal.

The Irish contribution to the initiative is being compiled by a joint taskforce, which comprises the gardai, customs and the Naval Service and has been operating against drug traffickers for the past 10 years.

It is expected the gardai and customs will base full-time representatives at the centre, which will co-ordinate the exchange of intelligence between the seven countries.

The Naval Service is likely to provide representatives to Lisbon for specific operations.

At the moment, the Naval Service has the legal go-ahead to directly arrest vessels suspected of being involved in the illegal importation of drugs if the ships are found inside Ireland's 12-mile territorial waters.

But where the suspect vessels are non-Irish and are spotted outside the 12-mile limit, the Department of Foreign Affairs must seek authorisation from the parent state of the ships before they can be detained.

Now proposals have been drafted which would allow combined operations between the member countries to board suspect vessels outside the territorial waters.

The proposals are being forwarded to Attorney General Paul Gallagher for advice on the legal implications before being placed before the Cabinet by Defence Minister Willie O'Dea for a decision.

A study is also being carried out on the funding of the Lisbon centre.

Also under consideration are plans to boost an inter-agency approach to compiling a more complete picture of maritime movement off the Irish coast.

The Naval Service does not operate independently of the gardai or customs and works within the joint taskforce, based mainly on intelligence provided by either of the other two agencies.

Surveillance data compiled on suspicious vessel movements is passed on by the Naval Service to the others. A minimum of three patrol vessels are deployed around the coast on surveillance operations throughout the year. This is seen as the first line of defence in deterring illegal activity.

The week, before the west Cork cocaine seizure, the Naval Service had carried out a five-day exercise off the South coast, located particularly around the Bantry Bay and Fastnet areas.

Mr O'Dea is to bring plans to buy three new naval vessels before the Cabinet for approval before the summer break.

The estimated cost of the purchases is around €180m and tenders for the new ships will be sought shortly after the Government has sanctioned the proposals.

One of the three vessels will have enhanced capacity to carry equipment, including 15 to 20 armoured personnel carriers as part of supplies for Irish troops operating overseas on peace missions.

MooseJam

I don't think the navy should be used in this way, stopping drugs being imported is a job for the guards imo

Heraldoffreeent

MooseJam wrote:

I don't think the navy should be used in this way, stopping drugs being imported is a job for the guards imo

Well now a couple of guys with a hundred million worth of drugs are hardly going to put their hands up for two guys in a toyota corrolla now are they?

Personally I think drugs interdiction is equal to fisheries protection in the navy tasking and for these two reasons alone I think we should have 15 Niamh/Roisin type vessels. Cocaine and Heroin are two of the biggest enemies of this state and using one Shannon cruiser (surbhear) to combat them is disgracefull.

MooseJam

We should have a coast guard service like the US has, they could look after drug interdictions etc

Tipsy Mac

Attempting to patrol the full Irish coast line with vessels to intercept all drugs is insane, you would need about a couple of thousand ships and cost billions to even come close to getting near full coverage of the coastline and even then it would not be 100%.

Satellite technology and risk profilling of vessels is the most cost effective way of policing the seas.

Steyr

Heraldoffreeent wrote:

Personally I think drugs interdiction is equal to fisheries protection in the navy tasking and for these two reasons alone I think we should have 15 Niamh/Roisin type vessels.

No offence as im with you but who is going to man these vessels? Is there enough interest in the Navy these days from Joe Soap wishing to join up?

Heraldoffreeent

Steyr wrote:

No offence as im with you but who is going to man these vessels? Is there enough interest in the Navy these days from Joe Soap wishing to join up?

I take your point, however although this couldn't happen over night but over time.In 1972 there were about 400 peronel in the NS, In 1977 this had risen to about 600, now I think its about 850-1000 .when times were worse economically we could do it, now that times are better economically we still have more people than in the 70's.

Modern ships have much more opportunities for young people because of the amount of automation than they had then, remember the ton's were pretty basic and the Setanta and Ferdia were really only trawlers.Now the Ships are getting bigger and requiring less Officers and OR's with more sophisticated roles.

I think it maybe necessary to look at rates of pay and match them to civilian life, i.e. Signals/ Comms guys need to be matched to rates of pay for guys with MSFT or CCNA type qualifications in the private sector,catering people with the Cook/Chef rates of pay on civvie street.Added to this obviously you need to look at the "at sea allowances" and rostering.

Also The NS would be competing with the private sector,so the jobs need to be marketed properly, with sucesses in drug interdiction etc this would give some good PR opportunities.With more people in the NS, more career opportunities would arise and the pride of wearing the uniform of a larger and more effective service should not be discounted.

Also the NS needs to actively promote it self as a great place to work, I'm sure the attraction or lack there of, of a Naval career is something most countries encounter and surmount,NZ is similar in size to us, how do they do it?

I think its time we took drugs seriously and while I am aware that having loads of ships is not the answer, I know we need more. I think it was Lt Cmmdr Mark Mellet who suggested 15 in a report/article some time ago.Belgium with a coastline of the same size as Donegal have a 14 ship fleet.
The idea is not that of random patrolling in the hope of getting lucky but a co-ordinated response and deterrant. This would need to be combined with extra aeriel surveillance, ie one or two more casa's working in tandem with the NS.The Sat idea sounds good in theory, but for some reason I think its not completly practiceable(some article i read somewhere to do with the fact that sats are commercial/american/military and may not be secure/available to us, or something). anyhoo......my two cents!!!! I'll await the Flaming!!!

cushtac

Heraldoffreeent wrote:

Well now a couple of guys with a hundred million worth of drugs are hardly going to put their hands up for two guys in a toyota corrolla now are they?

No, but they'll put their hands up for a load of armed Gardaí and have done in the past.

It's a bad comparison anyway, the Gardaí are no more suited to intercepting people at sea than the NS are suited to doing so on land.

ex_infantry man

Heraldoffreeent wrote:

Well now a couple of guys with a hundred million worth of drugs are hardly going to put their hands up for two guys in a toyota corrolla now are they?

Personally I think drugs interdiction is equal to fisheries protection in the navy tasking and for these two reasons alone I think we should have 15 Niamh/Roisin type vessels. Cocaine and Heroin are two of the biggest enemies of this state and using one Shannon cruiser (surbhear) to combat them is disgracefull.

the naval service get a satellite position of vessels that have a kind of what you could call a tracking device but drug traffickers won,t have this on board there vessels so naval vessels have to rely on lookouts and radar to see if there is any vessels in there location and its at the discretion of the captain to board a vessel if he thinks its suspicious with help from the intelligence officer its no good having that class of vessel for drug interdiction its the peacock class such as L.E. Orla and Ciara that should be used in this way as this is what the brits used to use those 2 vessels for in hong kong harbour before the defence forces purchased them rom the royal navy

ex_infantry man

Heraldoffreeent wrote:

I take your point, however although this couldn't happen over night but over time.In 1972 there were about 400 peronel in the NS, In 1977 this had risen to about 600, now I think its about 850-1000 .when times were worse economically we could do it, now that times are better economically we still have more people than in the 70's.

Modern ships have much more opportunities for young people because of the amount of automation than they had then, remember the ton's were pretty basic and the Setanta and Ferdia were really only trawlers.Now the Ships are getting bigger and requiring less Officers and OR's with more sophisticated roles.

I think it maybe necessary to look at rates of pay and match them to civilian life, i.e. Signals/ Comms guys need to be matched to rates of pay for guys with MSFT or CCNA type qualifications in the private sector,catering people with the Cook/Chef rates of pay on civvie street.Added to this obviously you need to look at the "at sea allowances" and rostering.

Also The NS would be competing with the private sector,so the jobs need to be marketed properly, with sucesses in drug interdiction etc this would give some good PR opportunities.With more people in the NS, more career opportunities would arise and the pride of wearing the uniform of a larger and more effective service should not be discounted.

Also the NS needs to actively promote it self as a great place to work, I'm sure the attraction or lack there of, of a Naval career is something most countries encounter and surmount,NZ is similar in size to us, how do they do it?

I think its time we took drugs seriously and while I am aware that having loads of ships is not the answer, I know we need more. I think it was Lt Cmmdr Mark Mellet who suggested 15 in a report/article some time ago.Belgium with a coastline of the same size as Donegal have a 14 ship fleet.
The idea is not that of random patrolling in the hope of getting lucky but a co-ordinated response and deterrant. This would need to be combined with extra aeriel surveillance, ie one or two more casa's working in tandem with the NS.The Sat idea sounds good in theory, but for some reason I think its not completly practiceable(some article i read somewhere to do with the fact that sats are commercial/american/military and may not be secure/available to us, or something). anyhoo......my two cents!!!! I'll await the Flaming!!!

these guys get tech pay on top of there sea goin and duty money and wages so they should be on good money