would this position interest you...

bacon?

sorry for any confusion, this is not a job offer, well yet anyway


..now this is just a hypothetical question, but would be very interested in knowing if this job would interest you, looking at people who are contractors, or talented underpayed web designers looking for really good pay and an excellent opportunity....

job: web designer, with 6+ years experience, excellent photoshop, flash, dreamweaver, css. actionscript, javascript would be a bonus.

so, bascily, someone who's role is mainly design of high end sites, with a bit of front end interactivity. also able to handle projects on their own.

location dublin

pay: 57k

this would be a contract for a year. high profile company, v good work conditions, would look very well on cv.

so, i not trying to waste anyones time here, i'm genuanly interested in how many people there are out there who would be seriously interested in this position.

Ph3n0m

Wow - for 4 years experience, my jaw is on the floor over that kind of Salary

"bit of front end interactivity" - is the only thing I am wary of

I am just wondering is it just for a graphics person to churn out designs, or would they have to produce html/css aswell?

As to me

Someone who churns just web designs out is a web designer
Someone to take those designs and turn them into a workable/usable website is a web developer

So who is the role trying to aim for - one or the other or a combination of both?

bacon?

Ph3n0m wrote:

Wow - for 4 years experience, my jaw is on the floor over that kind of Salary

"bit of front end interactivity" - is the only thing I am wary of

I am just wondering is it just for a graphics person to churn out designs, or would they have to produce html/css aswell?

hmm, you may be right ph3n0m, will edit for more experience......

but, tbh, there's designers with 4 years experience who can be more talented than designers with twice that.....

i'll edit it for 6.

yes, the job would be excellent css, as well as high end design. also, actionscript, javascript a bonus, but i think the salary reflects that.

also, have to remind you, this is just a hypothetical question, for now anyway, jut trying to get an idea of who's out there.

Seth Brundle

A survey like this will give misleading results. I think that, given the salary, loads of people would be interested.
However, the amount of these who could fill your requirements will be quite limited though!

bacon?

kbannon wrote:

A survey like this will give misleading results. I think that, given the salary, loads of people would be interested.
However, the amount of these who could fill your requirements will be quite limited though!

i know. i'm kinda hoping people would be honest. anyway, just curious is all.

if it was available, i'd of course screen applicants, i'm in this game long enough to know the good from the bad.

Liam Byrne

If there was any chance that I could work remotely, I'd do it for 3/4 of that!

....and I'm not being facetious here.....if that becomes non-hypothetical and working remotely is an option, then PM me!

DJB

You'll definitely get people interested in this job offering, especially with that salary. You'll have a tough job going through all the CV's and more importantly, portfolios. I wouldn't rule out people with less experience as the newer guys coming up these days are quite good, might never have heard of table design , and if you drop your salary a little, you could still capture this group. Give an extra 5k per years experience!!!

Anyway, best of luck with it. Keep us informed as is does sound quite interesting!

Rgds, Dave

CoNfOuNd

I think you need to work on the advertisement. You should say where they should have gained the experience from (working in a web design agency, doing freelance, designing in their spare time for 6 years?). Also, I think going by what you've said, someone who has experience in Dreamweaver but no knowledge of HTML could apply.

What about knowledge of PHP, ASP, databases etc. ?
I guess it all depends on whether they are a designer or developer.

bacon?

sorry for any confusion guys, this is not a job offer, just curious to know how many people out there with said skills would this job apeal to.

again, sorry any misunderstanding.

CoNfOuNd

I know it's a hypothetical thing but I thought the reason behind it was that you were trying to build up the best possible job offer before officially advertising the position.

sticker

This is a bizzard thread tbh...

If it's not a job offer - why not just ask if board members if they are at the standard of your origional post. What the point in asking who'd be interested?!

For €55K+ - it's a no brainer - everyone would!

alienhead

sticker wrote:

This is a bizzard thread tbh...

If it's not a job offer - why not just ask if board members if they are at the standard of your origional post. What the point in asking who'd be interested?!

For €55K+ - it's a no brainer - everyone would!

well, the question is, if a job like this came up, rather than want it,

would you...

a) have the requirements
b) be willing to just do a year, or possibly 6 month contract

i'm sure there would be a heap of interest for such a position, but i'd just like to get an idea of how many people would be able to answer a and b.

Laslo

This is really more of a Principal Web Designer salary, or possibly a Creative Director salary (although a CD may earn more). The thing I find with this country is that nobody really has a clue about design or what to expect from a role like this. A lot of Creative Directors in Web agencies in this country have about as much talent as one of my pubic hairs and the people hiring designers don't have a clue how to actually guage creative ability and design talent. Which is why most agencies in Ireland are producing absolute tripe.

If, hypothetically, you're planning on handing out a 57k a year salary to someone, please God know what you're doing first.

Eoin

Ph3n0m wrote:

As to me

Someone who churns just web designs out is a web designer
Someone to take those designs and turn them into a workable/usable website is a web developer

I would consider both those roles a designer - for me, a web developer is the person who does the back end of site e.g. builds or integrates with an eCommerce package / CMS etc.

Ph3n0m

eoin_s wrote:

I would consider both those roles a designer - for me, a web developer is the person who does the back end of site e.g. builds or integrates with an eCommerce package / CMS etc.

Have to disagree (maybe based on the designers I have worked on) - but no designer in their right mind is going to spend, quite possibly, many man hours coming up with a design, to then spend an equal amount of time converting it to usable html/css - in business, that just doesnt make sense - especially since some designers also have to be responsible for print design too.

You then have to ask where do you draw the line - the designer to design the interface, code it - what about standards, accessibility, etc - to me a designer doesnt need to know nor care about that.

A web developer is someone who can take a website design, make a website out of it, and also plug it into a back-end system, if required. And would also be responsible for standards, etc

That however I am sure is going to open the worm can

nikimere

If you ask me:

A designer is someone who does print design, graphic design etc..
A web-designer is someone who designs websites (in photoshop or whatever), creates front-end to W3C standards and has an idea of backend stuff.
A developer is someone who deals with all the backend code and databses.

Eoin

Ph3n0m wrote:

Have to disagree (maybe based on the designers I have worked on) - but no designer in their right mind is going to spend, quite possibly, many man hours coming up with a design, to then spend an equal amount of time converting it to usable html/css - in business, that just doesnt make sense - especially since some designers also have to be responsible for print design too.

You then have to ask where do you draw the line - the designer to design the interface, code it - what about standards, accessibility, etc - to me a designer doesnt need to know nor care about that.

A web developer is someone who can take a website design, make a website out of it, and also plug it into a back-end system, if required. And would also be responsible for standards, etc

That however I am sure is going to open the worm can

I don't think there's ever going to be an obvious cut-off, seeing as the roles will probably vary and be blurred from company to company. I know that whenever I look at the salary surveys online, there are probably 5 or 6 job roles I can pick and choose.

In a design shop, you may have a graphic designer who will just give someone one big PSD doc to slice and dice into something usable and with nice markup. But some of them - even ones who specialise in print design - are well able to use dreamweaver to put together a basic (functionality wise) site, if no back-end integration is needed. However, the markup will probably be as ugly as well.

In a more web-app orientated company, or an internal IT dept, the developer who is writing the business logic may be responsible for the entire front end as well, or may do the markup from a design as well as the whole backend.

Liam Byrne

to me a designer doesnt need to know nor care about that.

A web developer is someone who can take a website design....

I agree with eoin.....there's no point in going to the bother of creating a design for a website that won't translate into a proper workable database structure/markup/layout or that would be so reliant on large graphic files as to make it painfully slow.

So it's imperative that a designer knows at least enough of the basic concepts required so as to create a design that can translate into what's required.

Imagine if an architect or interior designer just did graphic representations of a house, without any knowledge of what was required by way of load-bearing walls, ventilation, light, cabling and heating pipes, etc; the builder would be tearing their hair out!

For ease of workflow the same should apply to websites; like I said, the designer does not need to be an expert if the structure has a separate "developer", but there is an overlap if you want to make the process easy and rewarding for both parties,

CuLT

This position would interest me. Personally I'm more interested in development and backend. For a salary like that though, there's nothing I wouldn't learn.

I'd imagine most developers would say the same.

heggie

i tend to agree with Ph3n0m, designer designs, and coders code. if a graphic designer includes 'web design' in their skill set, then they should have some knowledge of how websites work, and the limitations that are there to best design a site. Personally I have some knowledge of css & webstandards (anything I do put together validates), but I would prefer to leave that to a specialist in that area, just as some web designers should leave printed material too
Its always assumed by some that developer and designer are the same job, you only have to look at some of the job adverts looking for an experience designer with strong css/php/mysql/ruby experience for 25k!

Laslo

I don't think we can put the whole markup/accessibility/standards compliance thing into a creative or technical category. On a Web project, it doesn't really matter whether your designer is the markup guy or whether it's the developer. As long a SOMEONE knows how to do it. I'm a developer and most of the time I take care of the markup. However, I've worked with designers who were more than happy to (and capable of) doing the XHTML/CSS gubbins. It's very much a middle of the road thing - as long as it's done right, it doesn't matter.