Modified or not modified

OKenora

Just me being a grumpy old man or are we really seeing a lot of traffic here thats not really about modified cars but simply high spec/performance standard cars ?

Like the "Just bought a glanzaa" type threads. For me the Glanza is not a modified car, it's a Toyota made by Toyota and as much modified as a 1.8 TDCI Focus in that it has a turbo.

Would people actually consider the Glanza as a modified car? I obviously don't as it's a stock car, and even sticking on a pile of fiberglass stuff from a Halfords bargain bin still won't make it a modified in my eyes. Now take that glanzaa, change the suspension and wring an extra 50bhp out of the engine and it's modified (unfortunately still a glanzaa though). Take a stock starlet and add the turbo yourself it would be a modified to me. Sort of trying to say, you can't buy a modified car from new as it was made that way and by definition is not modified.

So the question is where does modified start and stock end ?

colm_mcm

very few Glanzas come into the country in standard trim, so I reckon they qualify.
By definition modified cars are cars that have been altered, so be it a different set of wheels, a fibreglass bumper, tinted windows or a big stereo, it all falls under the banner of modified. Do you suggest a two tier forum, where in one section small-time modifiers may ask questions or share their stories, and another where only big budget, balls-out projects get a look in?
I can't see the problem to be honest, the modified forum isn't overly busy anyway.

OKenora

I agree modified forum isn't busy, just it sometimes annoys the grumpy old man in me to open threads like "new stereo install" expecting some subs, maybe nice components, an amp and crossover maybe to find it's about swapping a standard headunit for a blaupunkt/alpine/other make one.

I had a Mitsubishi Evo7, would never in a million years have considered it a modified car as thats the way it was made, but it was modified a long way from it's original Lancer base by the manafacturer, far more than some of the "modifieds" I see. Current car has far less mods from the standard base car than the Evo had, but it's most definitely modified.

Reason I asked is that you have to draw the line between changing something and true modifying, other wise people who are genuinely interested in modding cars might/will lose interest in reading what aren't really mods but simply superficial changes.

Changing the headunit for another is within the dictionary definition (probs insurance too ) of the word modified but to me modifying was always adding something that your car never had or was never designed for.

/end grumpy old man rant

eoinhealy

OKenora wrote:

people who are genuinely interested in modding cars might/will lose interest in reading what aren't really mods but simply superficial changes.

Changing the headunit for another is within the dictionary definition (probs insurance too ) of the word modified but to me modifying was always adding something that your car never had or was never designed for.

I love a good mod car. I'm not talking about a Honda Civic with a big exhaust and a sports air filter, but something bigger indeed. Those small cars, even the Mitsubitsi Lancer EVO mod are all just cosmetic and most of the time the guy driving it is trying to look like a hard man sitting in his 'modified' car but really people laugh at him. I'm not putting them down, just saying they should save there money to buy something bigger.

Now, take an audi A4 for example with a standard 2l engine, If you going to modify something that would be a great place to start. Tune the engine, stick in some lowering springs, nice slick body kit and some new aloys. That will get you started at least.

Modified cars came around because people wanted to make there cars look like sports cars. Only problem with making your car look like a sports car is you need to make it go like a sports car, this is why i think when you try to mod a hatchback you are waisting money.

Buy a cheap hatchback, use it to do delivery's for the chipper or chineese in your spare time, put the money you make away and when you are ready to buy a real car, the rewards are sweet!

And all with the over sized over loud exhausts on there little starlets, please take them off, all they do is wake up sleeping babys. Stick them on a big powerful car and baby daddy wont mind baby waking up so much, because every man loves a good sports car!

colm_mcm

surely the hardcore modifiers would be members of specific sites already, and don't depend on Boards. The beauty of Boards is that it's so inclusive.

OKenora

In that case colm_mcm, why bother having a board about modified cars if the whole idea of it is to not talk about modified cars because you should be a member of a proper modding forum as well ?

In the games section, try posting about halflife in the poker section, it will be deleted/moved/flamed or all 3. Why accept posting about non modified cars in the modified cars section ?

In fact the modified cars section seems more to be about cars that aren't regular appearances on our road, regardless of whether they have a single mod done or not.

colm_mcm

isn't the problem just your definition of modified cars? I agree, questions that are unrelated to modified cars shouldn't go up, but my definition of modified isn't the same as yours

OKenora

I think either of our definitions and even a very liberal definition would have a lot of posts excluded from this board. Strictly modified is changing anything, in the terms of modified cars though it is changing something to something thats new for the car (twin carbs for a single carb car, bodykit etc), not simply the same component but with a different brand on it (like a headunit replacement)

And definitely not threads like...............

No youve heard this a thousand times... <- It's a glanzaa, it's no more a modified than a stock GTi
Which Jap performance car to go for.... <- Again they are Jap performance cars, not modifieds
3 wheel car < 3 wheels is odd, not modified
3 wheel car/van <- make it a 2 wheeler or a 4 wheeler and it will be modified (go with 2 wheels and post it in Motorbikes section )
engine delivery <- about the same price it will cost to get a lump of wood the same size and weight, but nothing to do with modified cars
Where to buy/avoid? <- unless you want a modified avoid the modified forum
replace radio <-- like erm....
Toyota LEVIN ......plz REPLY <- IT'S JAPANESE NOT MODIFIED
Importing from Singapore, HELP!! <- ^^^^ same (Singapore not Japan but same principle)
CB Radio <- ok can let that slip as a lot of modified owners cross over into rallying where CB is handy but is it's place in the modified forum ? How would a post saying "how many of you CB radio operators drive modified cars?" be seen in the hobby radio forum ?

Seems like to modify a car you either have to change something or buy Japanese, now one of those is wrong......it's a big stretch of the term modified to include all or any of the above posts which, mostly, more properly belong in the motors forum

You said the modifieds forums is not busy, correctly too, but will allowing off topic posts help ? Which is more important, quantity or quality ? If i have to wade through 10 off topic and un-related posts to find one half relevant then like most other forum users will end up not bothering.

colm_mcm

Why are the moderators not moving these posts to the general motoring foum?

Maybe insurance quotes should be in "consumer isssues" the thing is, people will post these posts in here because they think those who frequent the forum will know the answer.
I suspect that the general motoring forum may take the piss a bit more than the modifed forum where Glanzas etc. are involved!

Blitzkrieger

OKenora wrote:

So the question is where does modified start and stock end ?

When the appearance/performance of the original car is significantly changed? I was thinking of saying improved, because bits falling off can alter a car's appearance/performance too, but not every modified car I've seen could be considered to be an improvement.

Mine's got a new air filter, dump-valve and exhaust as well as new spoilers that (imo) not only make it look better but give a nice bit of extra downforce. I barely consider it modified. If you just put on alloys and an exhaust I'd consider it tarted up rather than modified.

One of these days I'll move the battery to the boot, the air filter to a cold air intake, the cat and the muffler pipe to the bin and boost the turbo a bit. One of these days......

Gerry

Most of the threads on here would make me reluctant to describe my car as modified. It seems to be mostly the big speakers/bodykit brigade, buying cliched jap cars. People can do that all they want, whatever they want to spend their money on is their own business. But it all comes down to your definition of modified. Engine mods, for most of the threads I've seen on here, seem to stop at uprated air filters, and a 2 coffee can back box.

For me, its about modifying the car for performance, tidying up the looks a bit. I know, thats just my own personal viewpoint. I would consider my car slightly modified, but that is slowly changing. Its probably furthest from stock in the area of handling. So far, its had the shocks replaced with heavy duty bilsteins, springs replaced with lower, stiffer items, and the front anti roll bar removed. But still - thats only a case of swapping shocks and springs, its not exactly radical modification.

Engine wise, not very much. The boost controller has been modified to hold boost better at high rpm, but the maximum boost has not been increased much at all. I've decatted it with a straight through pipe, and am halfway through sorting out a cold air intake ( currently I have the cone air filter in the engine bay, cardinal sin )
The latest addition is a rising rate fuel pressure regulator and a fuel pressure guage, just fitted at the weekend. These things really just make the car more driveable. I want to get it running 100% before doing anything that will really increase the power.

colm_mcm

surely a forum for heavily modified cars would be pretty exclusive and very quiet.

dillaneS

modyfying in my opinion is diveded into 3 seperate groups..

1. people who modify there cars to show off at shows and events, crazy bodykits,exhausts, sound syatems etc.

2. "Boy racers".. young people who have a high interest in cars and have to resort to off the shelf mods.. as they spent all of their money trying to pay off insurance premiums

2. RWD/Drift brigade.. people who buy crazy high powered RWD cars with one purpose at mind!! burning the back tyres off!

but in my opinion all of these people have the same mindframe.. they want to be individual.. and isnt that wat modifying is all about.. so what if mr boy racer wants to bolt on a 5 inch exhaust.. maybe he likes.. maybe he lkes hes oversized wheels.. who are all of ye to be critising him.. he one day will be able to afford a proper car and he will be a "proper modifer".. so what if mr rwd wants to do donuts all night on a country road or car park. he will soon realise that tyres are very expensive.. and so what if mr show car wants to lower his car so much that its 2mm off the ground.. he wwill soon see that he cant make it to his local dunnes for a point of milk because of speed ramps.. the important thing is that we are all unique and individual... we are all modifyiers in our own right;) forgive the spelling!!!

OKenora

dillanes : I agree totally but would add another category, the guy who tunes the car to make it perform better, other then that pretty close. I think any reasonable definition of modified would exclude cars having component replacements (new radio, new back box is not modified, it's simply a component change) However if both the above changes were part of an ongoing upgrade plan then the car would be heading for modified. The problem starts when these are the only changes being made.

surely a forum for heavily modified cars would be pretty exclusive and very quiet.

Yes it would, but a modified forum full of cr4p like some of the totally un-related posts we have had will be no better. Besides, who said anything about heavily modified only (other than you). All that was mentioned was topic relevance which i think is all you would expect of any decent forum on any topic.

colm_mcm

OKenora wrote:

dillanes : I agree totally but would add another category, the guy who tunes the car to make it perform better, other then that pretty close. I think any reasonable definition of modified would exclude cars having component replacements (new radio, new back box is not modified, it's simply a component change) .

surely then, the only truly modified cars are ones with custom fabricated parts, if replacing components doesn't count as modifying?

OKenora

You stretch it all to extremes. The actual limit is far below the extremes you suggest.

If I replace my back box with a standard one is it modified ? NO.
If I put a crowbar through my back box (on purpose to make it louder) is it modified ? Well it's a mod but hardly one that counts towards a modified car.
If I replace my back box with another make of back box that is a copy of the standard (a pattern part) is it modified ? NO.
So if I replace my back box with one that gives me the same effect as the crowbar (an inefficient pattern part basically) is it modified ? imo NO

It is simply a replacement part thats not as good as the original. Somewhere there has to be a line between changing parts for other parts and modifying. Near every car on the road is modified from original spec in some way, head units replaced probably being the most common, but I am sure that many cars have modified oil filtration, modified brakes and probably modified lights, or to put it another way, they used pattern parts at their last service. All are mods, but does that mean the car is a modified car?

IMO A modified car is not simply a car that has had something changed but to be a modified it does not have to have huge changes, but it does have to have more than a bolt on replacement part.

A bog standard saxo with a 3" back box is still a bog standard saxo with a 3" back box not a modified, take that 3" exhaust back to the manifold (possibly even a multi branch manifold) and now imo it is modified. Having said that why would you do that, a 3" exhaust on a saxo will likely reduce the power not increase it and the 3" back box on it's own will add nothing except noise, even if it is a mod it's not a great one at all.

Back box change on it's own is like putting on 2 alloys, or one spotlamp, or skirts on one side of the car, none of which are real mods or if they are are laughable mods. It's not what you change but the context you change it in. My Alfa is near standard to look at, but is accepted unquestioned as a modified, my toyota is obviously visually modified. totally different cars, but both unquestionably modified.

colm_mcm

What I mean in the last post is truly modified cars would have one-off bodykits, custom body panels etc, to make a real head turner. I'm not a fan of the me-too cars where the owners go out with a shopping list of lexus lights, alloys and a load of stickers.

OKenora

I've had modified cars that had no bodykit at all, in fact the only visible changes on one was the badges had been removed, it had a medium exhaust(2.5") and it had bigger than standard tyres on stock rims, the rest of the body was stock, but under the bonnet it was anything but stock. Quite fun seeing WRX's disappearing in your rear view mirror and them wondering wtf is wrong with their car as the one that just left them for dead is supposed to be about 1/4 the power and speed and was 20 years old at the time. For the record it had about 133bhp per ton, in English thats bloody fast.

Bodykits are only one area of modifying and custom or stock you can still get an individual look.

Q cars rule though

magicpd

OKenora wrote:

Just me being a grumpy old man or are we really seeing a lot of traffic here thats not really about modified cars but simply high spec/performance standard cars ?

Like the "Just bought a glanzaa" type threads. For me the Glanza is not a modified car, it's a Toyota made by Toyota and as much modified as a 1.8 TDCI Focus in that it has a turbo.

Would people actually consider the Glanza as a modified car? I obviously don't as it's a stock car, and even sticking on a pile of fiberglass stuff from a Halfords bargain bin still won't make it a modified in my eyes. Now take that glanzaa, change the suspension and wring an extra 50bhp out of the engine and it's modified (unfortunately still a glanzaa though). Take a stock starlet and add the turbo yourself it would be a modified to me. Sort of trying to say, you can't buy a modified car from new as it was made that way and by definition is not modified.

So the question is where does modified start and stock end ?

Glanza, far to close to Glans for my liking. Could there be some connection between this car and dicks???

reddzer316

to be a modified car it has to be completely change from its stock version. E.g a micra with 350 bhp is modified, but an audi A4 with a new set of alloys isnt. although personally i take the audi all day long. Put a body kit, custom interior and some engine work on the audi then its modified. Modified is not necessarily better. So what is modified? A car that has been changed from its original state and is unique to any or car like it . In laymans terms a car that looks **** hot

layke

magicpd wrote:

Glanza, far to close to Glans for my liking. Could there be some connection between this car and dicks???

Yes yes we know your a troll, your posts won't be entertained here.

I would call a car modified only if it has performance boosting componants added after it rolls off the factory floor.

unkel

magicpd wrote:

Glanza, far to close to Glans for my liking. Could there be some connection between this car and dicks???

That's your second pathetic contribution in the motors section. And I see you posted something similar in AH too. I don't feel like banning tonight, but if you post something like that again, you'll be banned for a long time

dcGT

So a modified car must

reddzer316 wrote:

be completely change from its stock version

..this is a bit vague, and open to interpretation.

then you say that a modified car is

reddzer316 wrote:

A car that has been changed from its original state and is unique to any or car like it

A micra with a 'rubber hippy daisy' on the bonnet and a pink stripe down the side could qualify here...
Again, the word 'changed' is open to interpretation.

Finally, a modified car is

reddzer316 wrote:

a car that looks **** hot

I think this is purely a matter of taste

It seems to me that there are vast differences in people's perception as to what constitutes 'modified'. Perhaps this needs to be agreed on a clarified in a sticky (if people are that upset about it)? I have no problems with the posts in the modified section, but I wonder what people would say if the 'irelevant' posts that were referred to by Okenora were moved to the vanilla 'Motors' section?

Just curious, but does anyone know exactly why the 'modified motors' forum was set up originally? Was it for expensive engine modifications/rebuilds etc. or somewhere to post about bodykits/headunit changes/alloys and the like?

DC.

Chonker

Like it or lump it if a guy puts an induction kit into a micra its a modified car.

If he then wants to ask about insuring his micra his best answers will come from a modified forum.

Same goes for a new head unit. Or a new car he/she is importing for modification.

These are the little things that start guys down the modified route.

Get over it grumpy dudes. Its about time we got some more life in this forum. Weall have to learn somewhere why not here? Hardly because some of you guys are past the new head unit or starter Ice install.

Can I suggest rather than ranting you modding experts just help answer the basic questions and pretty soon we will have many decent modders in here.

At least i think so.:p

OKenora

Thats exactly he point chonker. If i was a modding expert I can imagine I would be put off a forum when I opened it and saw posts asking for advice on buying 3 wheeled vans and jap performance cars.

Those are 2 things that modding is definitely not about. Also the "changing standard headunit for another headunit" aren't real mods.

I agree you can mod a jap performance car, but you can as easily mod a Volvo. "Jap performance car" - the very title kinda says if it's modified or not......post the same topic with a "I want to do a,b and c to it, which is best to work at" and it would have been relevant.

PLease tell me how these topics fit in modifieds and why the mods have not bothered to move them somewhere more appropriate.....

how much for insurance? - OP asks "for a 17 year old male to insure a 1.3 toyota corolla or a 1.4 golf mk3", he even realises his mistake and asks for it to be moved to the motors forum, but it's till here......
corolla timing chain - OP wants to know when to replace the timing chain on a corrolla, not really a modified question ? Answer - at the same time as any other corolla, it's not a modified.
04 Almera, want front wings, bumper, lights etc - I recently bought a 2004 Nissan Almera (black) with light front damage and I'm having difficulty getting parts for it. - OK shot in the dark that we may know of parts for it, but the likelihood of a modified Almera being about having those parts spare is slim, this again should have been in the motors section. No point taking that shot in the dark, most modified owners also drive normal cars and are quite likely to have seen this in it's proper place.

CMON MODS.....btw any mods drive modifieds ?

OKenora

Additional bit....

My view of modified is replacing a whole system or the majority of it.

Replacing a back box - NOT modified but replacing exhaust system except maybe downpipe = modified

Replacing headunit = NOT modified, replacing headunit, speakers possibly modified, add subs or amps it's modified

Replacing air filter with performance filter = not modified, but doing it as part of other mods is modified

Owning something you don't often see often on our roads = definitely NOT modified (e.g Jap performance cars)

Owning something the manafacturer modded (Evo's, Scooby STi, Glanza) is not owning a modified, in fact it becomes harder to truly modify these as most the normal mods are already done.

Some of these are designed to weed out boy racer from modder (the back box one for a start)

Without wanting to ruffle too many feathers....I think having the same mods for Motors, Classics, Modifieds, Motorhomes and Motorbikes is a little bit optimistic. I doubt there are many people about with a genuine and well versed interest in all of those areas, and while they can effectively keep the forums "clean" it is maybe not the best setup for keeping the forums on topic. Maybe some more specific moderators for forums with more specialised interest and knowledge would help.

I'm not saying that our mods don't have a daily driver and a modified in the garage parked beside the classic they use at the weekends when they aren't out for a blat on their bike.......but it's not exactly a common profile.......(if they are at home that is, they could be away in their Motorhome....)

Chonker

Those examples are just new guys. I'm sure it happens all the time.

I think your right, How many of the Motors mods visit here Daily?? I know its not that busy, I'm thinking a good mod might get it moving.

OKenora maybe you should ask somebody in the help desk.

projectgtr

the answer is in the first line of the OP, the bit that ends with "man"
:cool:

OKenora

You may be right, but like most other modified owners I have spent time and money on my cars and really do not want them lumped in with other cars that simply are not modifieds or are boy racer transport. If I did then i would not care about the modified forum and would simply post in the motors forum as they are still cars....

Again today we have a post asking what car to buy, answer is "I DON'T CARE" the cars the poster wants are not modifieds (ok so you can modify them but thats true of any car)

Try posting off topic in any other specialist interest forum and see how long before your post is moved.......why should it be tolerated here ?

Gerry

OKenora, I agree 100% with what you are saying. But most of the people on this board are not into properly modifying cars, most wouldn't even come close to your definition. So, if you restricted the forum to threads about proper modification, there probably wouldn't be many. I'd suggest a split and some rebranding. Have a "coffee can backbox + front mounted blue/green LEDS + mudguards for my corolla" forum, and a "modified forum", modified by yourself and/or some other suitable person, with a strict charter.

Chonker

Gerry wrote:

OKenora, I agree 100% with what you are saying. But most of the people on this board are not into properly modifying cars, most wouldn't even come close to your definition. So, if you restricted the forum to threads about proper modification, there probably wouldn't be many. I'd suggest a split and some rebranding. Have a "coffee can backbox + front mounted blue/green LEDS + mudguards for my corolla" forum, and a "modified forum", modified by yourself and/or some other suitable person, with a strict charter.

Thats true... but who's job is to move the one's which have nothing whatsoever to do with modifying. E.g (corolla timing chain)...(New Car?).... (04 Almera, want front wings, bumper, lights etc)

Who in charge... and why is he not clearing out the unrelated bits.