St. Brigid's N.S.

mikedragon32

cheers wrote:

It's more than one mile. have you ever walked it? Probably not as you all get your private bus to the dart as it's too far to walk, true? Well it's another big change for greystones, the harbour area is changing and we won't go into that, the garda station will also be moving and now the school, it is a blow for those parents that rely on walking to school and there are many.

You should never presume anything, I much the same way as I haven't mentioned that you might bring your child to school in a totally unnecessary 4x4.

As a matter of fact, I walk it on a regular basis, but what does it matter to you if we chose to take a bus? Just because we don't add to the traffic problems in the Village by driving our cars into it each day shouldn't be a cause for complaint. We should be lauded for not contributing to the pollution of the area and the congestion of the roads.

Perhaps if some of the mummies didn't drive their little darlings and clubbed together for bus themselves things might not be so bad on that road.

Clearly you have a problem with progress if you don't want to see the Garda Station moved to a location where it can better serve the area it covers (not just your village, but Delgany and Kilcoole too). There's more to the area than your little patch and the sooner you realise that the better.

skivvy wrote:

it's exactely 3.3 km.

skivvy wrote:

The location to be exact is 2.2 miles away

The two figures you give differ by 240.5m to be exact. So it's more than the mile I quoted. Big deal.

Joliegood

It is a loss. Traffic congestion is bad enough on the main street. At least with a central location many parents are able to walk their kids to school. Will not be the case with Charlesland. Fact is, there should be a new school opening in additon to SB.

Suder

Its fascinating how so many agree on the need for Charlesland to have a school and yet there is still an undercurrent of negativity towards Charlesland because it might be a new and "relocated" school.
Sending ones child to a school is a big and important decision based on numerous factors. Peoples priorities in this regard are always different, location, convenience, reputation, versus quality of facilities, staff and ambition. Or any mix of these.
Fear of change is always a major factor in resistance.
Making sacrifices for the good of your childs education should be normal.

scivvy

Suder wrote:

Its fascinating how so many agree on the need for Charlesland to have a school and yet there is still an undercurrent of negativity towards Charlesland because it might be a new and "relocated" school.
Sending ones child to a school is a big and important decision based on numerous factors. Peoples priorities in this regard are always different, location, convenience, reputation, versus quality of facilities, staff and ambition. Or any mix of these.
Fear of change is always a major factor in resistance.
Making sacrifices for the good of your childs education should be normal.

1. What's facinating about agreeing on a school in Charleslans?

2.There's no negativity towards Charlsand the negativity is towards removing an already established school from the town to Charlsland.

3.Sending my child to Brigid's was an important decision based on numerous factors,

a. It's location meant my children could walk to and from school, seeing as I don't have my own car this was a major factor.
b.Convenience meant we could share out the school runs with other parents in the area.
c.The school had a good reputation at the timme of being a small friendly family orientated school.
d.The facilites were fine for the amount of children in the school at the time, and exactely what extra facilites are they looking for now? There are a hell of alot of schools in far worse conditions than ours.
e. Great teaching staff who have managed to teach there for the last how many years with no complaints until,this sudden decision to move.

I'm not afraid of any change I just want to send my children to the small local school which is my preference.
What sacrifaces do you suggest I make? Buy a car or move house? Maybe someone would like to set up a fund for all those parents who need to make changes to their life to accomodate this move when there's no need for it.

Son of Jack

Because I live some distance from the school and have to get to work I have no option but to drive to St.Brigid's. I have spent a considerable time in the last three days caught in traffic. The car park across from the La Touche was like being in the bumper cars in a fairground.

I understand some people have to (or choose to) walk but that 'many' walk is just not true! Many (though not all!) of those I see behind the wheels of their cars are that very vocal minority who protest so loudly at meetings in the schools. I say 'not all' because a few of the noisy ones are now very obviously walking!

Last term there was a 'Walk (to school) On Wednesdays' promotion organised by the Green School Committee. This was part of a programme to retain the school's Green Flag (in which I have an interest).

At the beginning of the scheme three children in my younger child's class of thirty were walking. All three live within five minutes walk of the school. One child came from a one car family, so it wasn't available for the school run.

There was a run of fine weather and with a lot of encouragement from the teacher the numbers rose slowly to 5, then 7, then 9 (for just one week). Immediately the promotion ended the numbers returned to just three.

When the land at 'Script' was proposed as a compromise between staying or moving, there was so little between the distance some parents were prepared to travel to at Script - and the distance on to Charlesland. So I don't believe the main reason people object to the move is the distance.

Atleast all parties are agreed on one thing. Charlesland deserves a school. A school gives a community a heart and a focus.

Greystones has St. Kevin's and St.Patrick's close to the centre of the town.

The children from Charlesland make that 'arduous' journey, (whether 2.2 miles or 3.3km!). I don't honestly know if any walk I do know a number come on the bus and by car.

It may well be when the school at Charlesland opens that children from Charlesland will transfer to the school in their community. That will leave places in Kevin's, Patrick's and Laurence's for those who live close to the town.

Three years is the conservative estimate for all this to happen. I think it will take longer.

kibera

:mad: The analogy of the car park across from the La Touche is totally flawed as unlike the new comers to the school I am 8 years plus a parent of St Brigids and have yet to play bumper cars in that car park, unfortunately for personal reasons I have no choice but to drive but am very very aware of the percentage of walkers,I think your numbers are a bit out on that point. But one thing you are totally correct on is that ' a school gives a community a heart and a focus ' so why would anyone support the removal from a town of the school that has served the town for over 100 years solely to provide a NEW community with a school, you seem to have a problem with understanding that the proposed school for Charlesland and St Brigisds are two totally different issues.

Son of Jack

Not that it is terribly relevant to the 'bigger picture', but you make the assumption that I am a new comer. I am as much a new comer as you are with as you state your 'eight years plus' experience of the school:rolleyes:

We are all just passing through the school with our children. We have to think of the needs of the greater community and the future.

St.Brigid's relocating to Charlesland would hopefully help unite the two communities.

fireengine

Son of Jack wrote:

Not that it is terribly relevant to the 'bigger picture', but you make the assumption that I am a new comer. I am as much a new comer as you are with as you state your 'eight years plus' experience of the school:rolleyes:

We are all just passing through the school with our children. We have to think of the needs of the greater community and the future.

St.Brigid's relocating to Charlesland would hopefully help unite the two communities.[/QUO


What is all this about, I can't believe this whole school thing still isn't sorted, surely if theres a need for a school in Charlesland and St Brigids is over crowded, whats the problem ? ? Build a new school and leave the other school where it is. Then everyone is happy.:)

kibera

Son of Jack wrote:

Not that it is terribly relevant to the 'bigger picture', but you make the assumption that I am a new comer. I am as much a new comer as you are with as you state your 'eight years plus' experience of the school:rolleyes:

We are all just passing through the school with our children. We have to think of the needs of the greater community and the future.

St.Brigid's relocating to Charlesland would hopefully help unite the two communities.

Please forgive my assumption of your being a relatively new parent, but one would imagine that seasoned parents if having a problem with one parking facility would be all too aware of the other parking areas, after all we do have the only school in the town with a number of parking areas. As for the passing through I have as it stands another 12 years of primary education to concern myself with, so I wouldn't really regard myself as passing through, I am also a parent of the future.

Tell me how could moving St Brigids to Charlesland unite the community, you obviously have some reason in believing unity could not be achieved by leaving the school where it stands, maybe you know something the rest of us don't ! it's all very well to say the town has other schools, lets remember they are over subscribed also, I think we all know Greystones ( incorporating Charlesland ) needs not 1 but 2 new schools.

Son of Jack

This numbers game is a funny thing! Eight years or twelve - It is not a competitive sport!

There was a grandmother at one of the meetings in the school who said her grand daughter would be the sixth generation of the family attending the school. Should that mean she should get preferential treatment over a newcomer?

I think this is the crux of the problem. As far as I can see it is a small number 'Old Greystonians' or those who aspire to be, taking a stand to keep the convent school in the town. They would like it small and elite and as close to a 'private school,' convenient and on their doorstep as they can manage it.

For many of them, their loyalty to the local school will not last beyond sixth class when they will bypass St. David's and transfer their children out of the area to the more prestigious secondary schools of south county Dublin.

Yes a school in Charlesland will be a great step forward in the development of the community. But the same few people would be more than happy that the 'newcomers' in Charlesland have a school there so that they will not add to the class sizes in the schools in the town.

There is going to be a crisis in education locally. The Department of Education hasn't acted fast enough to avert this. But there is an attitude out there of as long as my child has a school place I don't care about the others.

This is obvious from the comments on this thread about over crowding in St.Brigid's. Yes they took three classes of Juniors Infants in! Where do the critics expect them to go other wise?

New people and diversity enrich Greystones. St.Brigid's relocating to Charlesland would be a step towards uniting the two communities.

scivvy

I think this is the crux of the problem. As far as I can see it is a small number 'Old Greystonians' or those who aspire to be, taking a stand to keep the convent school in the town. They would like it small and elite and as close to a 'private school,' convenient and on their doorstep as they can manage it.

For many of them, their loyalty to the local school will not last beyond sixth class when they will bypass St. David's and transfer their children out of the area to the more prestigious secondary schools of south county Dublin.

This is obvious from the comments on this thread about over crowding in St.Brigid's. Yes they took three classes of Juniors Infants in! Where do the critics expect them to go other wise?

What a load of bxxxxxx. It's not a convent school for a start ,Im neither an old greystonian nor aspire to be.I don't want it elite and I certainly can't afford a private school so don't want it as that either. I will certainly be sending my children on to David's . Don't assume you know why people want to stay in the town, everyone has their own reasons.

It does seem that the school oversrowded themselves on purpose, why didn't the other 4 schools share the numbers. Nobody begrudges any child a school place but it makes sense to share the numbers between the 5 schools in the area. They're risking children's safety with the numbers they took in this year. They admitted they didn't have facilites for the children they had last year and then they go ahead and take in an extra 60 or so. I would call this irresponsible. If this was a private company tha management would be fired.

scivvy

What is all this about, I can't believe this whole school thing still isn't sorted, surely if theres a need for a school in Charlesland and St Brigids is over crowded, whats the problem ? ? Build a new school and leave the other school where it is. Then everyone is happy.:) [/QUOTE]


Here, here!!

Son of Jack

Scivvy I can read!!! So from your postings on this thread I do understand you intend sending your children to St.David's. So when I spoke of the 'Old Greystonians' who want the equivalent of a private school on their doorstep, I wasn't referring to you. Nor was I referring to the many decent people of Greystones!

You have indulged in broad generalisations on this thread saying things like a majority of parents do not want to move. I would dispute this. But unlike you I will not resort to the 'b' word as you have just done, in my response.

That noisy minority who do not want to move comprise of a number of different factions. For example

There are those referred to above

There are those who enjoy a bun fight

Those who have a problem with progress or change

Those who have had words with the principal in the past and are now using this opportunity to hit back

Those who have an attitude to nuns, perhaps dating back to their own school days

Those with a bee in their bonnet about property developers

Those who are anti authority, anti establishment, anti the Catholic church

and there are those who have genuine reasons for not wanting a move e.g. those for whom transport is a problem.

All these factions under the same umbrella. The floor show will start when they fall out which each other - if they haven't done so already!

And all the time the crisis for the children needing school places this time next year is looming. That is where people's energies should be channelled.

But as I said, sadly it seems to be, when one's own children have a place, what the other children will do does not seem to be a concern.

kibera

It is worth it being noted that this sites correct use is as an informative one and not as the foundation for a slaging match which is what it seems to be becoming, everyone should be in this for the good of the children, there parents and the whole community, yes it has long ago been agreed that there is a very big school place crisis in our area and why our community needs a whole new school not just a few additional classrooms, in this day and age no child should be without a school place

mikedragon32

kibera wrote:

It is worth it being noted that this sites correct use is as an informative one and not as the foundation for a slaging match which is what it seems to be becoming

It's a forum. Fora by their very nature are a place for discussion and debate. If it turns into a slagging match, that's merely a reflection on the people taking part, myself included

If information happens to be exchanged here, it's a happy accident

Son of Jack

kibera wrote:

Please forgive my assumption of your being a relatively new parent, but one would imagine that seasoned parents if having a problem with one parking facility would be all too aware of the other parking areas...

Tell me how could moving St Brigids to Charlesland unite the community, you obviously have some reason in believing unity could not be achieved by leaving the school where it stands, maybe you know something the rest of us don't:mad: !

Kibera, referring to me as 'Dear dear Son of Jack' in your first post, belittling me as an newcomer and the above quotation ... Your use of :mad:
Were YOU being informative or slagging?
The latter I think!
I merely defended my views!

woodser

I was reliably informed by a dept official last evening over dinner that St Brigids will be definitely coming to Charlesland it will be signed sealed in the next month and delivered for the next school year.
Details of what is happening I been asked not to repeat but a consensus has been reached amongst the parties involved for the good of the children of greystones for the next 50 or 100 years not just those who are selfishly engaged in looking after their own self interest while their children attend the present location for the next six or 8 years.
I have been informed that the old school will remain operational alongside the new but phased out over six years to suit and i quote "the short sighted selfish whingers"

mikedragon32

Woodser, you should re-read the charter, particularly in relation to posting flame-bait. Consider yourself warned. Your comment is in no way constructive even if it is a "quote".

cheers

Son of Jack wrote:

Scivvy I can read!!! So from your postings on this thread I do understand you intend sending your children to St.David's. So when I spoke of the 'Old Greystonians' who want the equivalent of a private school on their doorstep, I wasn't referring to you. Nor was I referring to the many decent people of Greystones!

You have indulged in broad generalisations on this thread saying things like a majority of parents do not want to move. I would dispute this. But unlike you I will not resort to the 'b' word as you have just done, in my response.

That noisy minority who do not want to move comprise of a number of different factions. For example

There are those referred to above

There are those who enjoy a bun fight

Those who have a problem with progress or change

Those who have had words with the principal in the past and are now using this opportunity to hit back

Those who have an attitude to nuns, perhaps dating back to their own school days

Those with a bee in their bonnet about property developers

Those who are anti authority, anti establishment, anti the Catholic church

and there are those who have genuine reasons for not wanting a move e.g. those for whom transport is a problem.

All these factions under the same umbrella. The floor show will start when they fall out which each other - if they haven't done so already!

And all the time the crisis for the children needing school places this time next year is looming. That is where people's energies should be channelled.

But as I said, sadly it seems to be, when one's own children have a place, what the other children will do does not seem to be a concern.

I don't have children in St.Bridgets but have friends that do, I'm finding it difficult to understand why you are having diffficulty in believing that they sent their children to the local school and just want to keep them there. What's wrong with that? There's nothing malicous about why they oppose the move like you are trying to make out there is. It seems simple enough to me just open the school in Charlsland and keep Brigets where it is. Why can't that happen?

P.S What's a bun fight??

mikedragon32

cheers wrote:

P.S What's a bun fight??

http://www.worldwidewords.org/qa/qa-bun2.htm See specifically the last paragraph...

Son of Jack

'I don't have children in St.Bridgets but have friends that do, I'm finding it difficult to understand why you are having diffficulty in believing that they sent their children to the local school and just want to keep them there. What's wrong with that?'

Charlesland IS local, surely?

Currently the children from St.Brigid's go up to Charlesland for athletics, hurling and football as after school activities.

No room for sporting activities at the current site. There isn't a blade of grass on the premises at St.Brigid's let alone a square metre of it.

It was built as an all girls school at a time when the emphasis was on the academic there.

I believe basketball is the only after school sports activity that takes place there.

Mikedragon32, Thanks for the definition. I'd have been a while explaining that. Marvellous website!

Ossie

Son of Jack wrote:

'I don't have children in St.Bridgets but have friends that do, I'm finding it difficult to understand why you are having diffficulty in believing that they sent their children to the local school and just want to keep them there. What's wrong with that?'

Charlesland IS local, surely?

Currently the children from St.Brigid's go up to Charlesland for athletics, hurling and football as after school activities.

No room for sporting activities at the current site. There isn't a blade of grass on the premises at St.Brigid's let alone a square metre of it.

It was built as an all girls school at a time when the emphasis was on the academic there.

I believe basketball is the only after school sports activity that takes place there.

Mikedragon32, Thanks for the definition. I'd have been a while explaining that. Marvellous website!

A school should have been built in Charlesland before all the houses were built. The absence of one is just another example of developer led planning facilitated by the councillors.

Any new school should have adequate space for sporting activities. The proposed new site at Charlesland is simply too small. It is up to the developer to propose an alternative site for the school of a more appropriate size. It would also help if the school had a proper area for dropping off the children. I understand that under the Zappi proposal the parents are expected to drop their children in the shopping centre car park and the children must then use a bridge as they make their way to the school.

Son of Jack

Ossie, in a very informative post you added to the thread 'Shopping Centre, size of Liffey Valley', you included a letter from WCC to Zapi.

This was on 16th August when WCC didn't give Zapi planning permission but asked Zapi for some clarification and more information.

With regard to a drop off and collection point for a school in a shopping centre car park, WCC said:

'The proposal to utilize the proposed shopping centre car park and proposed pedestrian pedestrian is NOT ACCEPTABLE'. (my emphasis).

WCC also asked Zapi to 'Please provide a revised proposal that provides dedicated vehicular and pedestrian access points to the school site proposed ....'

So it is highly unlikely Zapi would persist with that proposal.

I often think developers throw in a number of obvious and impractical details in an application. So that when it inevitably is returned to them, they can correct them and then say 'Well we acted on this, that and the other.' In this way they may be seen to 'compromise' and hope to get away with some other aspects of the plan.

scivvy

Son of Jack wrote:

Scivvy I can read!!! So from your postings on this thread I do understand you intend sending your children to St.David's. So when I spoke of the 'Old Greystonians' who want the equivalent of a private school on their doorstep, I wasn't referring to you. Nor was I referring to the many decent people of Greystones!

You have indulged in broad generalisations on this thread saying things like a majority of parents do not want to move. I would dispute this. But unlike you I will not resort to the 'b' word as you have just done, in my response.

That noisy minority who do not want to move comprise of a number of different factions. For example

There are those referred to above

There are those who enjoy a bun fight

Those who have a problem with progress or change

Those who have had words with the principal in the past and are now using this opportunity to hit back

Those who have an attitude to nuns, perhaps dating back to their own school days

Those with a bee in their bonnet about property developers

Those who are anti authority, anti establishment, anti the Catholic church

and there are those who have genuine reasons for not wanting a move e.g. those for whom transport is a problem.

All these factions under the same umbrella. The floor show will start when they fall out which each other - if they haven't done so already!

And all the time the crisis for the children needing school places this time next year is looming. That is where people's energies should be channelled.

But as I said, sadly it seems to be, when one's own children have a place, what the other children will do does not seem to be a concern.

Speaking of broad generalisations this is exactly what you are doing. I and the people I know who oppose the move are none of the above. I agree with you on one issue and that's about people's energies being channelled into school places for next year. Thankfully we do have some excellent people in the area taking on the jobs of setting up a gealscoil and an educate together.At last people will have choice and not have to travel out of the area for these types of schools.
Brigid's did not need to take on all the extra children , the schools in Kilcoole and surrounding ares are not full so every child would have got a place somewhere.

girliegirl

Firstly, I dont have children yet, so my comments may not be appreciated by most, but I did attend St Brigid's when I was younger and I am torn by this issue.

On one hand I think it is a shame that most parents will have to drive their children to charlesland (a considerable distance for most people so impossible to walk), however I do have to say that from seeing the number of cars around the school most mornings (the mornings I am around to see it that is) there are many many people who dont walk their children to school anyway and drive, so surely that extra distance is not too bad. (BTW I am not generalising... I know not everybody drives their children to the school... and I genuinely feel for those who do walk their children to the school)

On the other hand... my overwhelming feeling on this is that it is a good thing. And that is for this reason...
.... when i attended the school (nearly 20 years ago eek!) the school was not in great condition it has to be said... so surely a new and improved (And bigger… to cope with the overcrowding) school would be a godsend. If I had children now I think I would be happier to send them to this newer school rather than the old more run down version.

Just my opinion!