Braindumps - Policy debate

aidan_walsh

Hi,

Since the topic of brain dumps has arisen a few times in the last week or so, as well as a couple of other times through out the life of this forum, it might be a good time to set down some rules regarding their discussion here.

While bans will be earned for linking to dumps and providers, I would like to know what you think should be allowed (or not) for this somewhat touchy subject. Should there be a ban on naming dumps and providers? Should discussion be block completely, or should we take a more "torrent-like" approach to the discussion?

Static M.e.

While bans will be earned for linking to dumps and providers

I think thats enough. As long as boards doesnt suffer any lawyer wrath I see no reason why everything else cant be mentioned / discussed. The only reason I agree with the ban for linking is that I wouldn't like this become clogged with "Give meh P4S v88.7897 plzzz" posts

If people want to cheat they will.

I personally feel that Boards in itself has become more stringent in what can be posted and what can't on the various forums, I'm not trying to tell them how to run their house its just more of an observation but I'm quite sure I don't see alot of the work that goes on in the backround

As long as people don't pull the p*** I would leave the discussion fully open, ban/close when you feel you need too but its alway nice to say why you closed a topic as well sometimes its not always obvious.

From what I have read/seen most of the posters here have the common sense enough not to post anything that helps people cheat and anyone thats hints towards cheat sites generally seem to get wailed on by the regular posters which sets a feel good tone. I think the forum could / should rule itself with the admins stepping in when things get out of hand.

Thats my 2cents

Its also nice that you asked

Ginger

My own stance can be seen on a previous thread..

Like Static M.e I agree that they are out there and if people want to cheat they will..

Most people when asked what an exam is like just point you to the vendors cert page and say well thats the dealy. Its tricky with the NDAs what you can and cant say.

While I think people should be aware that they exist they shouldnt be promoted and also the consequences for what happens if you are found to be using them should also be noted.

From what I have read/seen most of the posters here have the common sense enough not to post anything that helps people cheat and anyone thats hints towards cheat sites generally seem to get wailed on by the regular posters which sets a feel good tone.

Agreed on this.. its self policing at this point because most of the regular posters here are all certified in some way and know the score in relation to this.

Sample questions are fine... I think that is what the biggest dump provider is doing now after their settlement with MS but only for their MS offerings.. but actual questions are a violation and for all intents and purposes are the same as warez which are also non postable

My small coins worth

_CreeD_

Agree with the above. The material does break NDA at a bare minimum (without further proof of just how the companies in question got hold of it) so is technically illegal and therefore should never be linked. The ethical/moral aspects are fair game for discussion but that's as far as it should go imho.
Besides how is anyone ever to learn their pitfalls if they are never discussed.

rooker7

I agree with the above comments. When I was an MCT I did encounter students who genuinely did not understand what a braindump was and I felt discussing them (naming no names) helped them avoid the dumps.

In short, no linking, preferably no names mentioned and allow them to be discussed.

ob

People are going to come across braindumps all over the internet, so helping people understand what they are or more importantly what they are not is probably a good idea.

Allowing the subject to be discussed will only benfit everyone....obviously naming and linking shouldn't be allowed.

mick.fr

Forums and websites which posted links and braindumps resources have been closed in the past already by Microsoft legal action for example. I can tell for sure :-)

Anyway braindumps users are so easy to spot on.
I laugh so much during pre-interviews over the phone, well after.
When you speak to somebody who holds a MCSE but does not know what TCP port is Kerberos or DNS using this is really pissing me off.

Also I have been surprised about the number of braindumps users in Ireland, this is a lot.
Finally I know some very well known training company are giving dumps to customers after the training session when they also bought it with the test bundle.

This is not helping the IT market in Ireland, reason why we got some companies such as Motorola leaving because they can't find skilled people here. Well this is one of their reasons...

ntlbell

mick.fr wrote:

Anyway braindumps users are so easy to spot on.
I laugh so much during pre-interviews over the phone, well after.
When you speak to somebody who holds a MCSE but does not know what TCP port is Kerberos or DNS using this is really pissing me off.

Also I have been surprised about the number of braindumps users in Ireland, this is a lot.
Finally I know some very well known training company are giving dumps to customers after the training session when they also bought it with the test bundle.

This is not helping the IT market in Ireland, reason why we got some companies such as Motorola leaving because they can't find skilled people here. Well this is one of their reasons...

Slightly off topic, but untill Microsoft change how they test for MCSE and the certification has some real world relevance it makes little difference if people use brain dumps or not.

paper mcse's are useless, brain dumpers are useless, then your left with people that have a lot of IT exp and can answer the questions anyway. so who does it help? in Ireland very few, and from a technical stand point even fewer.

Need a few mcse's to get your little gold partnership sorted, happy days, apart from that the whole thing is a waste of time IMO

mick.fr

ntlbell wrote:

Slightly off topic, but untill Microsoft change how they test for MCSE and the certification has some real world relevance it makes little difference if people use brain dumps or not.

paper mcse's are useless, brain dumpers are useless, then your left with people that have a lot of IT exp and can answer the questions anyway. so who does it help? in Ireland very few, and from a technical stand point even fewer.

Need a few mcse's to get your little gold partnership sorted, happy days, apart from that the whole thing is a waste of time IMO

I don't see how I am off topic. You must have missed something.
Anyway all the information you have provided is wrong, Microsoft has certainly the most realistic and advanced testing engines.

If you had taken other vendor tests in the past 2 years, and even Microsoft, which is apparently not your case, you would have noticed since Microsoft included simulations, other vendors followed. This is the case with Comptia, Cisco etc...

And for your information, you do not need a couple of MCSE to be a Microsoft Certified Gold Partner...Just one is enough.

Oh and I am glad you removed your FreeBSD logo within your signature since my last remark :-)
As I told you there is a slight difference between the 2 OS :-)

Static M.e.

I laugh so much during pre-interviews over the phone, well after.
When you speak to somebody who holds a MCSE but does not know what TCP port is Kerberos or DNS

I never understood this logic. How can you decide someones IT skill or ability based on knowing some port numbers? Unless you work with firewall rules or ports on a general day to day basis you could have little or no contact with them apart from the obvious. I cant honestly recall the last time I had to check if the Kerberos port was open in any trouble shooting I've done

I have a sheet of paper labeled to my desk with the top 100 ports on it. I have no interest in learning it off.

I am always more concerned with how the individual solves problems

monkey tennis

Anyone got some accurate info on the legality of braindumps?

ntlbell wrote:

untill Microsoft change how they test for MCSE and the certification has some real world relevance it makes little difference if people use brain dumps or not.

QFT. So many industry cert paths have taken the same path as the Irish Leaving Cert - testing memory rather than knowledge.

The new CCNA is out soon - what are the bets they'll use exactly the same exam format? :rolleyes:

Ginger

Legality of braindumps are they are illegal as they contravene the NDA you must accept to perform the exam.

I think the way MS went about it after one of the main braindump provider was to claim that it was stealing and profiting from its copyrighted property.

Ginger

mick.fr wrote:

I laugh so much during pre-interviews over the phone, well after.
When you speak to somebody who holds a MCSE but does not know what TCP port is Kerberos or DNS using this is really pissing me off.

I find this a bit strange as well, well from the developer point of view. I work as a web app dev and recently i had to deal with some stuff specifically http return codes and I have to say I had to take a quick look to find out what one that came back was (Code 207 when using WebDAV and PROPFIND. Specific MS code)

Fairly much I have enough in my head without needing to know all the http return codes verbatim when i can quickly stw them.

I would have a problem with someone not knowing what a 404 code was tho if they applied for a web dev job

ntlbell

mick.fr wrote:

I don't see how I am off topic. You must have missed something.
Anyway all the information you have provided is wrong, Microsoft has certainly the most realistic and advanced testing engines.

If you had taken other vendor tests in the past 2 years, and even Microsoft, which is apparently not your case, you would have noticed since Microsoft included simulations, other vendors followed. This is the case with Comptia, Cisco etc...

And for your information, you do not need a couple of MCSE to be a Microsoft Certified Gold Partner...Just one is enough.

Oh and I am glad you removed your FreeBSD logo within your signature since my last remark :-)
As I told you there is a slight difference between the 2 OS :-)

You were not off topic, I was stating it as *I* was off topic.

No "engine" that requires you to "guess" most question where they all ready offer you the answer is realistic.

most of the questions are unrealstic.

RHCE for example is realistic.

Put in a room in a hands on enviroment doing real world troubleshooting, you eithier know how to do it or you don't this gives the certification more weight.

I have taken Cisco and MS exams in the last two years, your crystal ball is broke.

I didn't remove any logo, the hosting has expired where the "graphic" was hosted and wasn't there to demonstrate an OpenBSD logo, bu thatnks for trying to explain something I work on a daily basis. (was this in the security thread where you made an idiot of yourself? )

but do continue to try and be picky to score some points.

ntlbell

Static M.e. wrote:

I
I have a sheet of paper labeled to my desk with the top 100 ports on it. I have no interest in learning it off.

Mick.fr probbaly sends home his staff with "homework" and has a super port test on a friday were all the eng sit down and try and fill in the port numbers.

i would of thought it a lot more important as you stated for a firewall guru to know this than anyone else and in all my years in IT I don't know any who would even have a good go at rattling off the "top 100" commonly used ports.

_CreeD_

Cisco had sim.s before Msoft. There's also a big difference in that for a Cisco exam the sims are undoubtedly the single hardest parts (90% being CLI based, those that involve GUIs are usually just multipart graphically aided questions), for Msoft they are the easiest part of the exam imho (being all GUI based you can poke around if you need to), no real way around that though.

Anyway, majorly OT.

Ginger

ntlbell wrote:

Mick.fr probbaly sends home his staff with "homework" and has a super port test on a friday were all the eng sit down and try and fill in the port numbers.

i would of thought it a lot more important as you stated for a firewall guru to know this than anyone else and in all my years in IT I don't know any who would even have a good go at rattling off the "top 100" commonly used ports.

No need to be catty now! We will have to take out the saucers of milk soon

mick.fr

I feel your pain guys :-)

Static M.e.

Cisco had sim.s before Msoft. There's also a big difference in that for a Cisco exam the sims are undoubtedly the single hardest parts (90% being CLI based, those that involve GUIs are usually just multipart graphically aided questions), for Msoft they are the easiest part of the exam imho (being all GUI based you can poke around if you need to), no real way around that though.

I found that myself too although I quite liked the Cisco Sims because you got a result in the end and it wasnt based on a very strict YES/NO answer, you could "feel" your way around once you knew the basics/theory if of course you had the time which I never did

Have you noticed the way PowerShell is coming out and more in MS Server and the latest MS applications. Perhaps in the near future it will give them a really good platform for asking Command line based questions or SIMs based on PowerShell. In Exchange for instance alot of the Advanced Options can only be accessed via PowerShell, it also has this really neat feature where if you enter some options via the Gui it shows the PowerShell version you could have typed to get the same result.