tills on wood floor

wasim21k

hi,
i m doing some DIY in newly bought house tilling in bathroom i till on walls no problem now i m going to till this weekend on floor.
problem is wood floor, i was reading DIY book and it says you need nail some hard board on floor to make wood floor stable but in B&Q guy said no you can till on wood floor which i doubt.
any one have done this? do i need hard board or is there any other better option?

Finneganjp

Buy 6mm plywood and sheet over existing floor. Ensure plywood is screwed and not nailed down and has as little joints as possible (i.e try to sheet the whole floor in 1 or two full sheets so there are minimum sheet breaks). Mix up PVA sealer with water and coat the plywood. This stops the adhesive drying out to quickley and gives the tiles a better grip to the floor.Buy special flexible adhesive and tile away.

wasim21k

thanks for quick reply,
what is PVA? and same on concert floor or its different or as i feel it there is nothing under tiles it can be very cold in winter time.

Finneganjp wrote:

Buy 6mm plywood and sheet over existing floor. Ensure plywood is screwed and not nailed down and has as little joints as possible (i.e try to sheet the whole floor in 1 or two full sheets so there are minimum sheet breaks). Mix up PVA sealer with water and coat the plywood. This stops the adhesive drying out to quickley and gives the tiles a better grip to the floor.Buy special flexible adhesive and tile away.

Fr Dougal

PVA is like a an adhesive/sealer. Mix with water as per the instructions on the tin and paint it onto the plywood. Also recommend you use Marine Plywood as the base as it is already waterproofed to some degree. Make sure you screw (not nail) the plywood down at no more than 8" intervals so there's mno movement..

On the concrete floor, you just tile directly on to it.

Finneganjp

WRT the concrete floor I would also PVA this before tileing. Stops the Adhesive from drying out too fast and gives the adhesive a better bond to the concrete.

wasim21k

thanks guys really very helpful information.
one more thing can i do fit gas hob or any one of you know any one in portlaois area who can do it for me? i really dont want to pay for gas hob and electric oven fitting 300euro:mad:

10-10-20

I was reading online that some tiling adhesive doesn't take to PVA all that well, so you should check that the two are compatible beforehand.

Ah here - http://www.ultimatehandyman.co.uk/tiling/diy_Tiling_Why_not_to_use_pva.htm

Finneganjp

Interesting,
Never heard of this problem before.

10-10-20

Have a look at this also:
http://www.ebuild.co.uk/forums/messages/771/4450.html?1184474448

Dazcon

I posted this query recently as I had a problem even after following the correct procedure for laying tiles on timber floors so it is not as reliable as you might think. ........

Loose floor tiles.

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I put down floor tiles on a suspended timber floor and even after taking all the right precautions I now find an number of them have come loose. The origional floor was in good condition and I screwed plywood down to ensure no movement. I used the recommended flexible adhesive and left the tiles long enough to dry before walking on them. The odd thing is when I lifted the loose tiles the adhesive is still stuck solidly to the floor but the back of the tile is completly clean . Its like the tile popped up from the adhesive. The tiles were clean and free from grease etc when laid. Can anyone recommend how I ensure I don't have to relay them again in a few months. I have been told to add polybond with the water before mixing. Any one got any experience of this problem?

John Mason

i would also suggest you get marine plywood, it slightly more expensive but it is water resistant

GreeBo

Dazcon wrote:

I posted this query recently as I had a problem even after following the correct procedure for laying tiles on timber floors so it is not as reliable as you might think. ........

Loose floor tiles.

---

I put down floor tiles on a suspended timber floor and even after taking all the right precautions I now find an number of them have come loose. The origional floor was in good condition and I screwed plywood down to ensure no movement. I used the recommended flexible adhesive and left the tiles long enough to dry before walking on them. The odd thing is when I lifted the loose tiles the adhesive is still stuck solidly to the floor but the back of the tile is completly clean . Its like the tile popped up from the adhesive. The tiles were clean and free from grease etc when laid. Can anyone recommend how I ensure I don't have to relay them again in a few months. I have been told to add polybond with the water before mixing. Any one got any experience of this problem?

How thick was the plywood?
I wouldnt go less than 9mm, preferably 12mm
6mm is too flimsy and doesnt stop movement at all.

wasim21k

well be honest with you when i till walls i spray water on walls. and how about floor i was in B&Q and been told that use flexi material but so far many people are complaining they have problem.
now i m thinking to have cement layer on wood and then plywood and then tills.
any one want to give comments on it?????

GreeBo

wasim21k wrote:

well be honest with you when i till walls i spray water on walls. and how about floor i was in B&Q and been told that use flexi material but so far many people are complaining they have problem.
now i m thinking to have cement layer on wood and then plywood and then tills.
any one want to give comments on it?????

Unless you are going to put the cement down very thickly you will have the same problem, the cement layer will crack as the wooden floor moves.

Use the thickest WBP you can get away with (but at least 9mm) and you will be ok.

Dazcon

I think I used 6 mm . The problem now I think is caused by the whole floor flexing and not individual floor boards moving. This is compounded by the fact I used large tiles approx 18 in x 12 in. These much less grout lines to take up any movement .

GreeBo

Dazcon wrote:

I think I used 6 mm . The problem now I think is caused by the whole floor flexing and not individual floor boards moving. This is compounded by the fact I used large tiles approx 18 in x 12 in. These much less grout lines to take up any movement .

thats your problem then, 6mm has no strength, all that will do is flatten out your floor for you.

wasim21k

then i think i better use either 12mm or minimum 9mm plywood and if i have some space then use cement layer as well. but i m not sure if i have 9mm plywood there is some space. left for cement layer. let c i will try my best to keep my bathroom floor nice.

GreeBo

wasim21k wrote:

then i think i better use either 12mm or minimum 9mm plywood and if i have some space then use cement layer as well. but i m not sure if i have 9mm plywood there is some space. left for cement layer. let c i will try my best to keep my bathroom floor nice.

I dont see why you would use a cement layer?
Unless you are going to use some self leveling compound or something it will be a pain in the ass to get level.
Just figure out your max height, take the tiles & tile cement from that and get the thickest WBP you can.

Dazcon

Would it be of any advantage to mix PVA bonding with the water before mixing the tile cement.Could this help cure my problem of the tiles loosening and prevent this happening to the origional posters new floor.

wasim21k

good point GreeBo.
i think better option would be to have 9mm plywood screwed and and use some tile cement.

GreeBo wrote:

I dont see why you would use a cement layer?
Unless you are going to use some self leveling compound or something it will be a pain in the ass to get level.
Just figure out your max height, take the tiles & tile cement from that and get the thickest WBP you can.

Lex Luthor

When I tiled my bathroom floor I removed my floor boards.

The boards were 21mm thick, and the new tiles were 6mm.

So I bought marine ply 12mm thick

Marine Ply (12mm) + tile (6mm) + adhesive (4mm) = 22mm

This way when I put the WC & WHB Pedastel back in, there was no need for making any changes for the plumbing

GreeBo

Dazcon wrote:

Would it be of any advantage to mix PVA bonding with the water before mixing the tile cement.Could this help cure my problem of the tiles loosening and prevent this happening to the origional posters new floor.

The problem is that PVA doesnt cure or go off.
It just dries, if it gets wet again it returns to the gooey state.

wasim21k

so you are saying remove floor but how about shower tray? and other things are ready fitted there? is it safe to remove them and refit? and this raise another question which is how to remove shower tray?

Lex Luthor wrote:

When I tiled my bathroom floor I removed my floor boards.

The boards were 21mm thick, and the new tiles were 6mm.

So I bought marine ply 12mm thick

Marine Ply (12mm) + tile (6mm) + adhesive (4mm) = 22mm

This way when I put the WC & WHB Pedastel back in, there was no need for making any changes for the plumbing