Liverpool's new stadium

spockety

Holy Schmoly.

http://www.liverpoolfc.tv/newstadium/

Pretty unique it has to be said.. 18,000 seats in a single tier Kop.. good lord.

Chardee MacDennis

eh pretty sure thts the last design - which hasnt been updated yet, since it has been up since before ten this morning.

this is the new one

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/teams/l/liverpool/6912346.stm

crazy!!!

Mitch Connor

Have to say I do not like it - i prefered the last set of designs, though this one is obviously more unique.

I think the architecture just looks a bit confused, with no over riding theme or style to it, other the that it looks a lot like the current stadium from the inside.

I also realise the open spaces can, and probably wil be filled in at some point in the future, but the completely open corners look a little odd - though it will obvously help keep the pitch in good condition.

Overall, I don't really like the look of it.

spockety

Dunno, I reckon it's the new one?

Kingp35

Thats a horrible looking stadium. Far too many open spaces.

Chardee MacDennis

spockety wrote:

Dunno, I reckon it's the new one?

might have been viewing a cached version - have updated one now.

spockety

Kingp35 wrote:

Thats a horrible looking stadium. Far too many open spaces.

That is to allow for expansion to upwards of 80,000

They have planning permission for a 60k seater, so the logic is that they will have an easier time getting this passed quickly so they can start building.

Then they will look at ways of improving local transport etc., to put in a planning application for another 20,000 seats to fill the corners.

Mr Alan

Tauren wrote:

Have to say I do not like it - i prefered the last set of designs, though this one is obviously more unique.

I think the architecture just looks a bit confused, with no over riding theme or style to it, other the that it looks a lot like the current stadium from the inside.

I also realise the open spaces can, and probably wil be filled in at some point in the future, but the completely open corners look a little odd - though it will obvously help keep the pitch in good condition.

Overall, I don't really like the look of it.

Shocking

I for one am very happy with it, things when they are in this design stage always look somewhat all over the place and space age! but the inside of it (the part that counts) looks great. Delighted with the single tier Kop. Should be seriously impressive when thats complete.

Overall, I'm very happy. Relieved that it doesn't look like the identikit stadiums that are springing up all over the place.

RE*AC*TOR

Parry said that they'll start work immediately and seek the rail extension that will allow them to have the capacity up to 80k. So by the time the stadium is open, the increased capacity will already be integrated.

Dub13

I like it,we have pics of it a few weeks ago over on IrishKop.com but we had to take them down for legal reasons.

spockety

Dub13 wrote:

I like it,we have pics of it a few weeks ago over on IrishKop.com but we had to take them down for legal reasons.

So are these pics the exact same as the 'leaked' ones from a couple of weeks ago?? Can we see them now?

PHB

I find it very odd that they don't intend to allow the expansion capacity of like 100k. Why cap yourselves at 80k?

Stky10

Presume the cost of going to 100k would be too prohibitive, and probably wouldn't sell out except for 5-10 games a season.

I'm not a fan of it on initial view, but then the photos released aren't of great quality and its difficult to get a good perspective of it. I expected much more in terms of pictures and videos. Maybe they'll be released gradually over the next few weeks and months. Anyway, on what I've seen so far it looks too much like a space ship, and too little like a football ground. Are the corners and the glass walls going to be filled in to get the capacity increase?

Mitch Connor

spockety wrote:

That is to allow for expansion to upwards of 80,000

They have planning permission for a 60k seater, so the logic is that they will have an easier time getting this passed quickly so they can start building.

Then they will look at ways of improving local transport etc., to put in a planning application for another 20,000 seats to fill the corners.

Site says high 70's, not 80's

zing

PHB wrote:

I find it very odd that they don't intend to allow the expansion capacity of like 100k. Why cap yourselves at 80k?

Costs maybe ? Size of available site ? Impact on local infrastructure ? Not wanting to build a white elephant ?

Going from 45k -> 60k and onwards towards 80k are big enough steps imo.

Mitch Connor

millersangel wrote:

Shocking

I for one am very happy with it, things when they are in this design stage always look somewhat all over the place and space age! but the inside of it (the part that counts) looks great. Delighted with the single tier Kop. Should be seriously impressive when thats complete.

Overall, I'm very happy. Relieved that it doesn't look like the identikit stadiums that are springing up all over the place.

Seriously, it is not an anti-liverpool thing - i just don't like it.

It will have a unique look to it, but personally i think unique can still look nice (the plans for the new pompey stadium are gorgeous imo) and i just don't think the new liverpool stadium is all that nice. It has some nice features, and i do like that the inside has retained a tradional look, i just think the architecture is bit odd.

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder....you probably like the liverpoool yellow kit, for instance....;)

Chardee MacDennis

will be expandable to 78,000 is the word from Parry - seems those corners will be the extra capacity. apparently the plan is to be at 78,000 by opening day/.

PHB

Well like, my understand of stadiums is pretty simple, but surely, you could just build,

Assuming the left and right sides are the long end,
1 tier on the left, 2 tiers on the right, 2 tiers on either end (one if you want the cop like feel)
That'll get you to about 60k. Then you add in a third tier on the right, and fill in the corner to get you to 80k. Then you do the left side to get you up to about 100k.

Dub13

spockety wrote:

So are these pics the exact same as the 'leaked' ones from a couple of weeks ago?? Can we see them now?

They look the same to me,I will try and dig out the 'leaked' ones again.

5starpool

PHB wrote:

I find it very odd that they don't intend to allow the expansion capacity of like 100k. Why cap yourselves at 80k?

Something is dripping very heavily from this post.

On topic though, it does appear that the gaps are only to allow the footprint to have a stadium that can accommodate 75k+ when the corners are filled in. It looks a bit odd as it is. I doubt liverpool would sell out every home game in a 60k stadium anyhow, but it would allow a lot of people on the season ticket wait list to get their hands on one though. A stadium of the size of Old Trafford for example would only sell out for perhaps 10 games a year including champions league games I reckon. It is great to see a new stadium, but if they are buliding a 75k+ stadium just because they can, and it turns out to have only 60k average gate then this wouldn't be ieal either I think, although it would make it a hell of a lot easier to get tickets for games.

Then again I may be wrong and there may be potential to sell out most weeks, but I see a good few midweek league games that have only around 41 or 42k attendences in the current stadium only.

ciaran76

Its a very unique looking stadium.
I wonder will the plans change much beofre actual building it. The open glass bits look strange.
The 18k stand is impressive though.

Bit of a George Forman grill look about it (Had to throw that in )

jesus_thats_gre

PHB wrote:

Well like, my understand of stadiums is pretty simple, but surely, you could just build,

Assuming the left and right sides are the long end,
1 tier on the left, 2 tiers on the right, 2 tiers on either end (one if you want the cop like feel)
That'll get you to about 60k. Then you add in a third tier on the right, and fill in the corner to get you to 80k. Then you do the left side to get you up to about 100k.

Was reading about this before and iirc, once you start going over 80k or so, the costs per seat are in the region of 4 times higher than the first 80k seats. Obviously varies depending on the lenght of the stands etc but if the stands are close to the pitch, you have to higher.

PHB

jesus_thats_gre wrote:

Was reading about this before and iirc, once you start going over 80k or so, the costs per seat are in the region of 4 times higher than the first 80k seats. Obviously varies depending on the lenght of the stands etc but if the stands are close to the pitch, you have to higher.

So if you wanted to make it expanable to 100k you'd have to move it away from the pitch?

jesus_thats_gre

RE*AC*TOR wrote:

Parry said that they'll start work immediately and seek the rail extension that will allow them to have the capacity up to 80k. So by the time the stadium is open, the increased capacity will already be integrated.

I hope this is the case. Would be very disappointed if the expansion to 80k odd was not a priority.

Mr Alan

Folks i wouldn't get carried away with the maximum capacity. Wouldn't be much sense in having 100k if would only fill it a few times a year. Don't think there is many teams in the world that could fill that week in week out.

going to 60kplus and then onto 80k is a MASSIVE step in the right direction, no point going overboard.

Mitch Connor

where is the 80k figure coming from - the liverpool site says mid/high 70's?

Stky10

jesus_thats_gre wrote:

Was reading about this before and iirc, once you start going over 80k or so, the costs per seat are in the region of 4 times higher than the first 80k seats. Obviously varies depending on the lenght of the stands etc but if the stands are close to the pitch, you have to higher.

You're probably right. I vaguely remember seeing something similar. Getting planning permission for it would be a nightmare. Interesting though that the only internal picture shows a stand of 3 tiers on one side, and a 1 tier stand on the side opposite to it. Its possible the 1 tier side could also be expanded to give a capacity closer to the 100k if the 80k version was consistently filled.

I remember reading recently that they have a 50k waiting list for season tickets. Adding an extra 30k capacity over Anfield, might only take 20k off this list, so there is still a huge extra capacity available. Gillett/Hicks like any clued in business person will know that its crazy not to try and accommodate them in some way.

Mitch Connor

Stky10 wrote:

You're probably right. I vaguely remember seeing something similar. Getting planning permission for it would be a nightmare. Interesting though that the only internal picture shows a stand of 3 tiers on one side, and a 1 tier stand on the side opposite to it. Its possible the 1 tier side could also be expanded to give a capacity closer to the 100k if the 80k version was consistently filled.

I remember reading recently that they have a 50k waiting list for season tickets. Adding an extra 30k capacity over Anfield, might only take 20k off this list, so there is still a huge extra capacity available. Gillett/Hicks like any clued in business person will know that its crazy not to try and accommodate them in some way.

but if you get to a situation where supply exceeds demand on a regular basis, the tickets become devalued.

It is better to have peolpe waiting to get in, then have empty seats.

Mr Alan

Tauren is right.

Plus wat if Liverpool go into a slump for a few years and don't win anything? That'll drive the daytrippers away and any stadium with 100k would need to have its fill of day trippers.

Think the figures being talked about by most people in the know are just over 78k Tauren. Saying 80k is not that big a stretch.

Mitch Connor

millersangel wrote:

Tauren is right.

You didn't need to write the rest;)

swalsh

I think it looks great irrespective of how many people it hold. I also like the open corners but I also do believe that by the time it is due to open they will probably have some infrastructure in place for the transport issue to raise the capacity and lose those corners

jesus_thats_gre

PHB wrote:

So if you wanted to make it expanable to 100k you'd have to move it away from the pitch?

Not exactly gospel now but I am guessing that is why alot of the largest stadiums in the world are that big futher back from the edge of the pitch than most English stadium. If you take Croke Park for example, the pitch is larger than any soccer pitches, thus the stands and ends are able to be longer and this allowed 80,000 seats on 3 stands without is costing a crazy amount.

Mitch Connor

Old Trafford can be extended to 100k (or 96k, not sure) without moving the pitch. The last stand left undone, South i think, at the moment can be extended upwards (and backwards) like the stand opposite. So, you don't have to move thestands away from the pitch.

What is stopping United is the houses and railway line at the back of that stand, though i think moves have been made over the last few years to buy the houses. Just rumours i have heard - also, Ferguson and a few United players in interviews have mentioned 100k as a capacity.

Mr Alan

but tauren, would this honestly make sense financially? or is it just a glorified willy waving contest!?

United wouldn't sell it out week in week out. and if they went through a slump all the day trippers would be gone too.

So the point you made earlier about supply and demand still stands.

Stky10

Tauren wrote:

It is better to have peolpe waiting to get in, then have empty seats.

I'd disagree. For games they know they'll have empty spaces for, they could give blocks of empty seats to local schools, and so get more kids involved as supporters at as early an age as possible, or they could sell them to any local unemployed/elderly at a vastly reduced rate to build up good relations within the city. Keeping people locked outside (locals especially) only builds up resentment.

With it looking like Everton will be moving outside the city boundaries, internal city support will probably increase anyway.

Mitch Connor

millersangel wrote:

but tauren, would this honestly make sense financially? or is it just a glorified willy waving contest!?

United wouldn't sell it out week in week out. and if they went through a slump all the day trippers would be gone too.

So the point you made earlier about supply and demand still stands.

I know - i am not saying it is financially viable or sound, as far as i know that is one of the bigger reasons for it not going ahead thus far - the expenditure couldn't be clawed back in a reasonable amount of time.

I was merely pointing out that the stands don't need to be pushed back, or longer then the average english stadium (in relation to pitch size) - capacity can be increased by builed upwards and backwards - as United did with the north, east and west stands and quadrants.

I'm not trying to get into a 'my stadium is bigger then your stadium' argument, not least cause i do not own a stadium, just pointing out high capacity stadiums don't need larger pitches or distance between the pitch and the stand.

The second paragraph of th post that kicked this bit off, was just explaining why it hasn't been done, and that rumours say United have/are looking into the possibility.

Mitch Connor

Stky10 wrote:

I'd disagree. For games they know they'll have empty spaces for, they could give blocks of empty seats to local schools, and so get more kids involved as supporters at as early an age as possible, or they could sell them to any local unemployed/elderly at a vastly reduced rate to build up good relations within the city. Keeping people locked outside (locals especially) only builds up resentment.

With it looking like Everton will be moving outside the city boundaries, internal city support will probably increase anyway.

Yes, but it also keeps prices high, and provides 'justification' for future increases (Look at United..."Yes our season ticket prices are much much higher then a few seasons ago, and the ACS is a complete crook...but look at the sell out matches and season ticket waiting lists....if you don't want your ticket, Johnny Day Tripper will")

In a perfect world, your scenario would be great, not just for liverpool but for football - but football is a capitalist game, with the object for the owners being to make money in the end. Keeping waiting lists high, and supply outstripped by demand, keeps prices high. If people knew for 90% of the games each season they could get in cheaply, would they spend a thousand on a season ticket? Obviously, some will, but a lot won't - they'll take their chances of still being able to scrounge up a ticket for the United vist or similar fixture, and get in cheap the rest of the time.

jesus_thats_gre

Tauren wrote:

Old Trafford can be extended to 100k (or 96k, not sure) without moving the pitch. The last stand left undone, South i think, at the moment can be extended upwards (and backwards) like the stand opposite. So, you don't have to move thestands away from the pitch.

What is stopping United is the houses and railway line at the back of that stand, though i think moves have been made over the last few years to buy the houses. Just rumours i have heard - also, Ferguson and a few United players in interviews have mentioned 100k as a capacity.

Hmmm the only stopping them it would seem is whether it makes financial sense. A number of clubs have had their expansion plans prevented by local objections and the cost of buying up houses. Arsenal couldn't do it, nor can Everton and Liverpool are moving for that very reason.

Mitch Connor

jesus_thats_gre wrote:

Hmmm the only stopping them it would seem is whether it makes financial sense. A number of clubs have had their expansion plans prevented by local objections and the cost of buying up houses. Arsenal couldn't do it, nor can Everton and Liverpool are moving for that very reason.

As i say - it is only rumour (though very strong rumour) that it is being, or has been, seriously looked at, and the rumours regarding the purchasing of the houses is a lot weaker.

I know it was looked at in the past, and i have heard ground work for a potential expansion was laid when we did the quadrants, but that was all decided before the Glazers took over, when we were in a far FAR sounder financial position - so the entire expansion project, assuming there was one, could have been completely shevled since the takeover.

EDIT: Sorry, I think i misunderstood - you were actually saying the only thing stopping liverpool is financial constraints, right? In that case, disregard everything said int he above post, and replace it with "I agree"

jesus_thats_gre

It did not make financial sense to re-develop the existing stadium as the cost of procuring surrounding property for development was prohibitive, i.e. it was cheaper to build the new stadium and sell the existing stadium to some property developer.

Sometimes it also makes sense to just start with a clean slate too.

Kimbot

I think it looks savage, I can't wait to see it completed and get to head to the new Kop.

Dont be at yourself

http://www.liverpoolfc.tv/newstadium/

Pictures in the above link - similar to ones that were floating around the internet a couple of weeks ago.

The Kop looks amazing, and with the size of it, hopefully there'll be a few more season tickets available! The stands are nice and close to the pitch as well, so it should make for a great atmosphere.

2 questions:

What will happen to the Shankley Gates & the This Is Anfield sign?

What will the new stadium be called?

zing

Already a thread about the new stadium

Chardee MacDennis

there is a thread for this already!!!

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055125665

they are good questions though

RE*AC*TOR

I imagine the new stadium will be called Anfield, the sign will follow.

The gates, however, I'm not sure about.

Drag00n79

The new kop looks seriously intimidating here.

Stky10

RE*AC*TOR wrote:

The gates, however, I'm not sure about.

I'd be very surprised if they weren't incorporated into the design in some way. They've also got the Hillsborough memorial to move as well.

Oh.. and the name.. I imagine it will be sold off to the highest bidder like Arsenal and Bolton have done.

RE*AC*TOR

I think "Anfield" is a brand unto itself. I would be skeptical about a rename. With the new position of the stadium, its practically going to be on Anfield Road anyway.

Tusky

Surprised they released such crappy quality pictures. On first impressions I don't think it looks great...but I'm going to reserve my judgment until I get a better view of it. Also, once it has been upped to 75k+ and the corners are filled in it will look a lot better. The kop looks great though, doesn't it ?

ciaran76

Does it need to go through the planning process again as its a different design to the original draft?

Dont be at yourself

2 questions:

What will happen to the Shankley Gates & the This Is Anfield sign?

What will the new stadium be called?