Heinze to Liverpool?

Mr Alan

Wat do people think?

Now the the Liverpool thread is gone (RIP), i guess we're gonna need somewhere to discuss this transfer.

Have to admit, i really want to get him for two reasons.

First off, i think he is quality, always have, always will (even if he stays at the mancs), sure his form last year was patchy but wat player doesn't have runs of bad form!? and at the price being quoted (£6.7?) i think it would be great business, especially when you look at the money being paid for far inferior players.

Secondly, it would wind annoy the hell out of Ferguson and most Mancs. Ferguson saying that there is no way he will go to Liverpool after a leading official (presumably Gill) sending docs to major clubs in Europe advising he is available for that fee was fairly stupid and just showed that he is bitter as hell.

Also Ferguson having the cheek to say they are looking to see if he was tapped up (Hargreaves, Silvestre, Kewell etc) makes it even more comical.

PHB

Fergie has stated it won't happen. Unless Heinze's letter is legally binding, which I really can't see how it would be, Heinze will not be going to Liverpool. I'm happy about this. Pre-injury Heinze was top quality, and the only problems he had, wouldn't really effect him in Liverpools style of play.

Mr Alan

If Heinze so obviously wants to go to Liverpool, do you not think he will push for the transfer?

Believe it or not as i said before, Fergusons word is not gospel.

Liverpools lawyers (the same team United have asked for help with the Tevez affair ) seem to be fairly confident a deal will be done.

Mitch Connor

millersangel wrote:

Wat do people think?

Now the the Liverpool thread is gone (RIP), i guess we're gonna need somewhere to discuss this transfer.

Have to admit, i really want to get him for two reasons.

First off, i think he is quality, always have, always will (even if he stays at the mancs), sure his form last year was patchy but wat player doesn't have runs of bad form!? and at the price being quoted (£6.7?) i think it would be great business, especially when you look at the money being paid for far inferior players.

Secondly, it would wind annoy the hell out of Ferguson and most Mancs. Ferguson saying that there is no way he will go to Liverpool after a leading official (presumably Gill) sending docs to major clubs in Europe advising he is available for that fee was fairly stupid and just showed that he is bitter as hell.

Also Ferguson having the cheek to say they are looking to see if he was tapped up (Hargreaves, Silvestre, Kewell etc) makes it even more comical.

I hope he doesn't go to liverpool - liverpoool, arsenal and chelsea are the only sides i don't want him to go to.

Also, it is up to United as to who they accept bids from. Unless the document heinze's agent claims to have is very strongly and legally worded, it will not amount to a minimum fee release clause, probably no more then an offer to tender, so i would be surprised if there is legal grounds to force the transfer on.

Frankly, i am very disappointed with Heinze. The club stood by him while he was injured, then sauntered off to play for Argentina and injured himself again. He played in the big games last season, and was captain for some matches too - and he repays teh club and fans by demanding a move to the most bitter of rivals unless he is garunteed to be the first choice left back? Fight for your place you freaking jerk. I thought he had a lot more class then he is showing.

As for your tapping up comments - United didn't tap up hargreaves - we made a bid that was rejected. Between clubs in different countries, you only have to tell teh potential seller of your interest before you talk to the player, you do not need permission from the players current club. I would imagine the same is true of silvestre, i never heard differently. As for Kewell....I really have no idea what you are talking about with that one. I remember reading of rumoured interest from United at the time of his move, but never heard anything that amounted to us tapping him up.

Besides, I think Liverpool are one of the few clubs recently to have been caught foul of the transfer rules with regards Christian Zeigler or whatever his name was from 'Boro.

swalsh

I think Heinze is quality and will add another dimension to the left, making it far stronger. Riise is playing well though anfd you feel that 'if' this happens he will be sacrifised

PHB

the same team United have asked for help with the Tevez affair

That's an odd thing to brag about.

Believe it or not as i said before, Fergusons word is not gospel.

Believe it or not, when it comes to selling United players, his word is gospel If he says he won't sell him to Liverpool, they won't.

Heinze's intentions are not really that clear. Fergie seems to be pinning the blame entirely on the agent. I'm still not sure how I feel about Heinze. He wants to be first choice, fair enough. If he isn't, then I think it's fair for him to want a transfer. I think I would do the same. I don't think he owes United anything. To me, it seems like Fergie expected the transfer to go to Real or Inter or someone, but their interest seems to have cooled.

Player power exists, but it isn't complete. Fergie would rather Heinze sit on the bench rather than sell him to Liverpool.

Mitch Connor

PHB wrote:

That's an odd thing to brag about.



Believe it or not, when it comes to selling United players, his word is gospel If he says he won't sell him to Liverpool, they won't.

Heinze's intentions are not really that clear. Fergie seems to be pinning the blame entirely on the agent.
Player power exists, but it isn't complete. Fergie would rather Heinze sit on the bench rather than sell him to Liverpool.

his agent is his brother though....

PHB

Are you sure? The way Fergie is talking about things, he really is laying into the agent, so that'd be surprising.

Chardee MacDennis

PHB wrote:

Unless Heinze's letter is legally binding, which I really can't see how it would be

why not? if Gill wrote a letter saying if a bid of a certain value is received heinze can go and signs this then it is legally binding.

Stky10

Call_me_al wrote:

why not? if Gill wrote a letter saying if a bid of a certain value is received heinze can go and signs this then it is legally binding.

Current thinking is that it probably doesn't, unless its phrased in such a way as to replace the terms of his existing contract, which its unlikely to

http://football.guardian.co.uk/News_Story/0,,2134006,00.html

I see Leighton Baines has decided against moving to Sunderland. Local lad, we could do a lot worse.

Mitch Connor

Call_me_al wrote:

why not? if Gill wrote a letter saying if a bid of a certain value is received heinze can go and signs this then it is legally binding.

Not according to contract lawyers i have been hearing and reading about - they are saying the contents of the letter would have to be unusually strong for it to mean United wave their own contractual rights.

yom 1

PHB wrote:

Fergie would rather Heinze sit on the bench rather than sell him to Liverpool.

What wages would he be on say, £50k a week. So thats £2.6m a year.

Would Fergie really be allowed to keep a player on the bench at that price to spite a rival team instead of taking £6.5m from them.

Kimbot

I would love to see himplaying for the pool, he can play left back while Riise plays the wing. It might solve the left wing problem for us and the central slot aswell when it is needed and that way we have a near complete team to challenge for the title this year!!

jesus_thats_gre

It depends on what is in the letter and how binding it is. Can we just stop speculating on it and arguing about something that we really have no clue about and see how it pans out? We are going around it circles at this stage.

Mitch Connor

jesus_thats_gre wrote:

It depends on what is in the letter and how binding it is. Can we just stop speculating on it and arguing about something that we really have no clue about and see how it pans out? We are going around it circles at this stage.

if we are to stop arguing about something we have no clue about, this forum would become very dead, very quickly. Especially considering the Liverpool fans would have to button it completely:D (kidding)

Chardee MacDennis

sure why discuss anything then?

Mr Alan

PHB wrote:

That's an odd thing to brag about.



Believe it or not, when it comes to selling United players, his word is gospel If he says he won't sell him to Liverpool, they won't.

Heinze's intentions are not really that clear. Fergie seems to be pinning the blame entirely on the agent. I'm still not sure how I feel about Heinze. He wants to be first choice, fair enough. If he isn't, then I think it's fair for him to want a transfer. I think I would do the same. I don't think he owes United anything. To me, it seems like Fergie expected the transfer to go to Real or Inter or someone, but their interest seems to have cooled.

Player power exists, but it isn't complete. Fergie would rather Heinze sit on the bench rather than sell him to Liverpool.

I wasn't bragging about the lawyers, simply pointing out that the same lawyers United are seeking legal help from to sort out the Tevez affair, are confident that the docs recieved are enough to push the Heinze move through.

These are the only people who are aware what the documents contain who are qualified to judge whether or not they can be considered legally binding.

And yep, Heinzes agent is his brother, so Ferguson laying into him is surely only making Heinze more determined to leave?

zing

I'm certainly no legal expert but I honestly don't think LFC would be maintaining their interest in the player if two things were not clear to them:
1) that the players wants to join them
2) that there was a strong legal case/argument/option/whatever for him
to be able to get out of his current contract - be that by means of
this mysterious letter from Utd.

No doubt Utd believe the situation is water tight from their pov but as I said LFC must believe otherwise and if they do then they must believe it for a reason.

Jesus Wept

Tauren wrote:

Frankly, i am very disappointed with Heinze. The club stood by him while he was injured, then sauntered off to play for Argentina and injured himself again.

lol, just lol!

Sauntered off = playing for your country.

injured himself? Intentional was it?!

RE*AC*TOR

Its not a huge deal, Heinze is a good player. But he doesn't play in a position that is necessarily a problem for us. Riise, Aurelio and Arbeloa can do a job at left back. Centre half, maybe there's more need for over, Carra, Agger and Sami. But would he become an immediate first choice? If not, what reason would he have for moving?

This whole thing makes little sense to me.

Mitch Connor

The-Rigger wrote:

lol, just lol!

Sauntered off = playing for your country.

injured himself? Intentional was it?!

Well in fairness, he was only coming back from a major, career threatening injury (admitadly picked up playing for United)

He rushed himself back, and played for Argentina in the World Cup when he clearly shouldn't have been, he aggrivated the injury, meaning a further 6 months out of action for United. Had he stayed away from the WC, and worked on getting himself right for the new season, he may well have been fit and ready at, or near the start of the campaign, and may have actually been usefull to us.

Dont be at yourself

If Heinze and his agent go the legal route, I can see him being sold. It'll make Heinze's situation at Man Utd untenable, and with overseas interest apparently cooling off, I reckon they'll have to bite the bullet. Evra is top notch, in any case.

I can't say I blame Man Utd in not willing to sell to a rival. If the likes of Riise or Finnan was being sold, Man Utd would be the last place I'd want them to end up!

yom 1

Tauren wrote:

Well in fairness, he was only coming back from a major, career threatening injury (admitadly picked up playing for United)

He rushed himself back, and played for Argentina in the World Cup when he clearly shouldn't have been, he aggrivated the injury, meaning a further 6 months out of action for United. Had he stayed away from the WC, and worked on getting himself right for the new season, he may well have been fit and ready at, or near the start of the campaign, and may have actually been usefull to us.

What age is heinze 29, so he will be 32/33 when the next world cup comes around. Chances are he wont get his game by then so why would he turn down the chance to play in what could very well be his last world cup just to be 100% for the new season. If he was there he was fine albeit just back from injury, but united would not have let him travel if he wasnt fit again.

Chardee MacDennis

hate to see it happen but if finnan or riise were surplus to requirements who cares where they go...

now if it were a player we were letting go coz the offer was too good to refuse or the player requested a transfer a la Owen or when stevie nearly went to Chelski then it woudl be upsetting!

Attractive Nun

The-Rigger wrote:

lol, just lol!

Sauntered off = playing for your country.

injured himself? Intentional was it?!

In fairness, he clearly wasn't properly fit when he played in the World Cup. A reoccurence of injury was likely, but United let him play anyway. When he did get injured, Fergie still stood by him, gave him game time to get matchfit. He played terribly, but even still he was made captain for a few matches ahead of the likes of Solskjaer.

No one's giving out about him playing for his country in the World Cup, but you can't deny that United seem to have treated him very well during his time at the club. For any player to kick up a fuss about a transfer to their club's biggest rivals, you can't expect any popularity with the fans, especially when you've been supported through two years of injuries and poor form.

LegacyUser

Heinze to Liverpool? Not gonna happen...

As for Heinze as a player, I think he is a pri*k. He has let himself down, and tried being a scabby bastard in the first place, he should have bought himself out when he had the chance.

Mr Alan

RE*AC*TOR wrote:

Its not a huge deal, Heinze is a good player. But he doesn't play in a position that is necessarily a problem for us. Riise, Aurelio and Arbeloa can do a job at left back. Centre half, maybe there's more need for over, Carra, Agger and Sami. But would he become an immediate first choice? If not, what reason would he have for moving?

This whole thing makes little sense to me.

Both Riise and Aurelio are somewhat suspect defensively (particularly Riise). I think Heinze would definately make us a stronger defensive unit and would be automatic first choice for that position, maybe fighting it out with Aurelio who showed a lot of promise before his injury.

Stimpyone

Hicks comments on possible transfer

Hicks said: "I've read what's been put in the papers and I've heard from our side about the views the player and his agent have about their legal position, but I think it will be up to other people to make those decisions."

"We hear he's a good player. We'd love to have him if he's available."

yom 1

yom 1 wrote:

If he was there he was fine albeit just back from injury, but united would not have let him travel if he wasnt fit again.

Thats not true. United didnt want him or Rooney there but they had no choice in the matter. Clubs cannot stop players going to World Cups unless there is a clear cut injury such as leg in a cast, on crutches etc as all the country need to do is get their doctors to ok the player and FIFA side with the country.

Mr Alan

And there was me thinking Ferguson, gets watever he wants?!

Mitch Connor

millersangel wrote:

And there was me thinking Ferguson, gets watever he wants?!

*poke* *poke* *poke*

Stimpyone

I've posted this before but on the Tevez thread, but what the hey.

Fer.jpg

dubmick

why was the Liverpool thread closed?

LegacyUser

Who was that dude originally Stimpy? I remember hearing him on tv, did he die in the end?

millersangel

millersangel wrote:

And there was me thinking Ferguson, gets watever he wants?!

U love to dangle the bait dont u!! U dont appear bitter or unobjective at all! Changed ur opinion on Heinze in the last few years havent ya!!

Sizzler

Hes not going, get over it

Never have I seen such Liverpool fan excitement over a 2nd choice full back at a rival club

Mr Alan

Once again Neil, will ya please read my posts before coming back with your responses. I have ALWAYS rated Heinze, my opinion of his has not changed at all - Unlike fickle United fans who all of a sudden don't rate him because he wants to go to Liverpool.

I ain't dangling any bait, simply stating that numerous people on here have came back to many suggestions with the answer . . . "Ferguson says . . . blah blah blah" and we are meant to take that as gospel, but then you make him out to be powerless in stopping his players partaking in international duty (Scholes, Keane, Irwin etc etc).

Also, i spotted the edit in your post to make it sound less confrontational

At the end of the day if heize had a good world cup and didn't get injured, it would have been beneficial to Utd.

Please don't just argue with me for the sake of it

event

its not as if fergie is doing it just to liverpool

he said he wont sell to any of liverpool, arsenal or chelsea

it makes no sense, why sell your rivals a player that could make thm better?

Tusky

Any utd fan I have asked has spoken really highly of him so its unfortunate that its looking unlikely that we will sign him.

Stimpyone

cheesedude wrote:

Who was that dude originally Stimpy? I remember hearing him on tv, did he die in the end?

Former Iraqi Information Minister Muhammed Saeed al-Sahaf. Works for Abu Dhabi TV now I think.

His son is/was a doctor in Beaumont hospital as well.

millersangel

millersangel wrote:

Once again Neil, will ya please read my posts before coming back with your responses. I have ALWAYS rated Heinze, my opinion of his has not changed at all - Unlike fickle United fans who all of a sudden don't rate him because he wants to go to Liverpool.

I ain't dangling any bait, simply stating that numerous people on here have came back to many suggestions with the answer . . . "Ferguson says . . . blah blah blah" and we are meant to take that as gospel, but then you make him out to be powerless in stopping his players partaking in international duty (Scholes, Keane, Irwin etc etc).

Also, i spotted the edit in your post to make it sound less confrontational

At the end of the day if heize had a good world cup and didn't get injured, it would have been beneficial to Utd.

Please don't just argue with me for the sake of it

It wasnt posts I was talkin bout big man, it was chats me n u had about football in general where u didnt rate him as much as u all of a sudden do. Thats neither here nor there.


EDIT: I remember when I asked u Heinze or Riise u said Riise, u prob dont remember though.

I do rate him but I also think he's a shadow of his pre injury self. Id like him to stay cos I feel with a good pre season he could possibly recapture his form. But at the moment I feel Evra was streets ahead of him last based on form.

The internationals u referred to were FRIENDLIES. NO manager has the power to pull a player out of a world cup. Scholes retired out of his own free will cos he dint like the travelling and time away from his family. Im sure Fergie influenced him but dont for on second think Rafa wouldnt be delighted if Gerrard did the same.


True but he was recovering from a serious and career threatening injury which could have been better rehabbed with a slow process back to fitness instead of a World Cup. And thats hypothetical anyway, fact is he got injured again. And he didnt get a pre season because of this and then Evra had a blinder of a season and now he wants out cos his decision backfired? Gimme a break.

And that post I edited cos I could see the reaction I was gonna get off certain people around here who take everything that isnt "Rafa is great, I love Rafa" to heart and attack u as if u just assaulted their family. Not bothered arguin every time someone takes offence at what I say (hence why i thought better of an idea for a thread earlier on)


Im not arguin for the sake of it, just find it funny when fans change their minds bout players if they sign for their club (yes United fans do it too), 90% of ur posts involve tryin to rile up United fans with sly comments about Ferguson and the like, sounds like YOU'RE lookin for arguments for the sake of it!! Ah Im only jokin dude, need the banter to get thru the day!

Mr Alan

I'd be shocked if i ever said i rate Riise more than Heinze. Never been a massive fan of Riise defensively, and i'm saying that now, knowing he will still be a major part of our defense next year. (i'm 99.9% sure i never said it, the .1% is in case i said it just to annoy you, a la gonzalez is better than Ronaldo )

Might have said i rate riise above evra after evras first season, but that was fair enough at the time.

RE*AC*TOR

Ladies, why don't you go down to the office canteen and sort it out there.

millersangel

millersangel wrote:

I'd be shocked if i ever said i rate Riise more than Heinze. Never been a massive fan of Riise defensively, and i'm saying that now, knowing he will still be a major part of our defense next year. (i'm 99.9% sure i never said it, the .1% is in case i said it just to annoy you, a la gonzalez is better than Ronaldo )

Might have said i rate riise above evra after evras first season, but that was fair enough at the time.

Now that I think of it, thats very likely, u like to do that dont u!! Evra had a poor 1st half a season as did Vidic. Theyre both proof of what u can get when u persevere with players after a shaky start and allow them to get used to the English league. I think its funny u mention Gonzalez cos I felt if he had been given more of a chance (i.e play in this coming campaign) he could have worked, raw talent but had the foundations of a useful player.


back to the Heinze issue, I personally think United should sell him, I dont see how he could win the fans over so his prescence could sour the atmosphere at OT. Prefer morale to stay high. Havin said that...Silvestre gettin more games in the team???

Mr. Presentable

You guys should go get your own sub-forum - so saps like me don't get caught up in your "debates"

Mr Alan

Can it be my turn to break it up??

Ladies, why don't you meet for a pint and cool off?

RE*AC*TOR

RE*AC*TOR wrote:

Yes. Its very relevant to the thread that you bring up personal conversations you have with a wrok colleague.

One sentence out of a whole post?? Well done. Stick to the toilet humour my LADYfriend!!

To get back to the thread at hand, have there been any updates today, dont have acces to SSN, or skysports.com etc

RE*AC*TOR

I don't think you quite grasp the concept "toilet humour", unless there's something you do in your office canteen that I might not be aware of.

Mr Alan

reactor, if you're so keen on getting back to the point at hand why not stop with the childish insults?

RE*AC*TOR

I'm keen on many things. However, I fail to see where I made any childish insults.

Peyton Manning

Evra > Heinze + Riise

Heinze is not the player he was pre-injury, thats obvious. Whether he can rediscover that form remains to be seen.