Torres.... Hit or Miss??

Kimbot

Folks as a general football supporter (Forget about what team you support for the moment) do you think Torres will do well in the EPL or do you think he will fail??
I haven't seen alot of him TBH but what I have seen of him I really hope he can carry to the EPL and do very well for himself as he is a decent player.

Mitch Connor

I don't think it will be either. I think he will do ok this season - he won't set the world on fire with stunning performances, but he'll get his fair share of goals, and will provide a better option then either Robbie Fowler or Bellamy did last season.

copacetic

Based on what we have seen so far I'd expect him to be a hit.

yom 1

Hopefully he'll be a hit and a massive one at that

Cant really say anythin at the moment as he has played all of 60 mins in a red shirt and in preseason at that. If he hits 15+ goals this season i would be very happy.

RE*AC*TOR

I fully expect him to be a hit. A massive hit. He's got the lethal combination of pace, strength and control. He's built for the premiership.

Hat-trick against Villa. You heard it here first.

astrofool

Will Liverpool break their cycle of turning every bought in striker into a donkey?

Aldini98

Probably not.

Villa game will be 0-0

Dont be at yourself

It's an expensive gamble - but a gamble with shorter odds than those we took with Bellamy, Crouch and Kuyt.

I don't think he'll break the oft-discussed 20-goal barrier, but I don't think any striker for Liverpool would. For a start, he won't be playing every game, and I think his versatility may see him play in a slightly deeper role off Kuyt at times also.

Hopefully we've finally sorted out our problem position though. Kuyt will have settled and won't be expected to do all the donkey work, Crouch is always good for goals, Torres has undoubted quality and Voronin (whose signing flabbergasted most of us) looks our best player in pre-season.

Zapp Brannigan

He has all the attributes to be a success, but maybe not in the 1st season. Very rarely will a young player come in from abroad and adapt to the game straight away. Ronaldo didn't. but then again Fergie played him alot, I'm hoping Rafa will make Torres his main man and have him start the most games.

jesus_thats_gre

astrofool wrote:

Will Liverpool break their cycle of turning every bought in striker into a donkey?

This is what I am worried most about tbh..

Mr Alan

Hit this year, not a 30 goal a season bloke or anything, but pushing on 20 with his share of assists and big performances.

And then over the following couple of seasons, i expect him to . . . . . . . . . turn into one of the top players in the premiership (a la Henry, Rooney, Gerrard, Lampard etc etc)

RE*AC*TOR

I don't know about Liverpool's history with strikers...

apart from Cissé and Morientes...

Crouch has turned out well, if anything he's improved a lot.

Kuyt is excellent.

Bellamy was just a disruptive influence, he brought that with him.

Heskey gave us a couple of good years, and he certainly contributed a lot to the cup treble season.

Collymore was outstading for us. Sure when we sold him he immediately became terrible, but that's fine.

Baros scored well for us, and IMO should have been kept. We bought him when he was practically unknown.

Morientes was a huge dissapoinment, but his game didn't suit our game.

Cissé blew hot and cold, injuries didn't help. I still think he good have been given a better chance.

I don't think Liverpool have done too poorly on the striker front. We haven't managed to get a 25 goal a season guy in a long time, but that's not what we were always looking for either.

Sizzler

Ah stall on lads, can this thread not be postponed till say Xmas, give the lad a chance :cool:

p.pete

Going to risk a banning and call the thread starter and idiot.

<edit>

based on him being at the club less than a month and the season not being started yet etc

Hobart

p.pete wrote:

Going to risk a banning and call the thread starter and idiot.

<edit>

based on him being at the club less than a month and the season not being started yet etc

I think it's more of an opinion question than anything else, based on the striker, not his record in the PL.

Having said that I would hope against hopes that he is a hit, but I suspect that like many continental players the PL will be a bit of a learning curve for him this season and I don't expect him to have a 30 goal season. Have that number in the PL and I would rate him as a success for the first season.

Tusky

I think he will be good this season and hopefully, v.v.good next season. I would be happy with around 15 goals and a fair few assists. The main thing for me is that we know have a striker that teams will fear. Someone who can run at players, create something out of nothing...someone with skill and pace. You can hardly say that about Crouch or Kuyt.

PHB

I think what he will do most of all this season is make Liverpool's attack much better. He might not bang in the goals, he might not get ****loads of assists, but his overall play will make the attack much better.

My real question is,
will he as good as he is for Atheltico or will he be as good as he is for Spain? I think it'll be the former in his first season

Kimbot

Hobart wrote:

I think it's more of an opinion question than anything else, based on the striker, not his record in the PL.

Exactly!! He seems a decent person and has been hyped up for quiet some time and I hope that he can live up to it and show everyone he is the player that they all want him to be!!

gosplan

Torres - probably the most over-hyped player in the world.

Listen up all, he's never been a 30 goal a season man. Moving to a new country, city, team and league will hardly make it all just click straight away.

He'll probably take ages to score his first and then do ok for the second half of this season. Then we'll all have the same conversation next year.

As regards whoever listed those strikers and said they were ok....

Please. they've all still playing and after liverpool moved onto lesser clubs.

i.e failure!!!!!

Mr Alan

Gosplan, no one here is saying Torres will score 30 goals a season, does he have to do that in order to be a success? Is Rooney a success at United? Was Owen a success at Liverpool (he never scored 20 or more in a season as far as i'm aware)

am i correct in saying you are an arsenal fan?

If thats the case, would you have prefered Torres or Da Silva to join when your season ended? honestly

Utopia Parkway

I think he'll be a hit but it may take him a season to adjust to the Premiership.

Just hope fans and the media don't get on his back if he has a slow start.

Mr Alan

i wouldnt worry about the fans getting on his back, remember how much they supported Crouch when he could score for AAGGGEEEESSSSSS, but i sense the media will be disappointed by Torres watever happens and judge him on his goals tally only, when that may not be the full picture

AdrianII

definatly be a big hit, i can see him scoring 20 + goals this season, he will prob take the penalty kicks off stevie

smemon

Torres is a fantastic player.

The fact Chelsea and Utd were both after him shows how highly he's thought off.

I think he'll suit Liverpool.. he comes across as strong player, a big character... not the typical spanish pushover benetiz usually buys.

redzerdrog

i think torres will be a massive hit and will adapt very well the prem he has all the qualities to be a massive hit

20 Times 20 Times

I really hope im wrong here , but to me it screams Morientes . In saying that i think that he will improve liverpools attacking play but he will not be the prolific goalscorer that liverpool need and want.

~Rebel~

AdrianII wrote:

he will prob take the penalty kicks off stevie

Very much doubt that, he's terrible at Pens, misses as many as he scores.

I do think he'll be a success for people with realistic expectations (obv some will expect 25prem goals per season) but i could see him breaking the 20 goals all competitions mark. Judging by what i've seen of him for Atletico and also for liverpool since he joined, he's not afraid of a challenge and is well capable of throwing his weight and size around, which is very important in the PL. Could see partnerships working well with all 3 of the others, though probably better with Voronin and Kuyt.

Its important to remember that he's not the kind of player that sits in the box and gets a rake of goals, like Van Nistlerooy, he'll probably assist nearly as much as he scores, so its harsh just to base his success on goals scored alone.

Kimbot

p.pete wrote:

Going to risk a banning and call the thread starter and idiot.

<edit>

based on him being at the club less than a month and the season not being started yet etc

Hmmmm.... still not banned for that bit of personal abuse??

I asked the question because it seems that alot of people are saying he is near enough the final piece of the jigsaw at the pool although I see one of two more pieces missing!! Now I'm an idiot?? And this is coming from a mod of all people!!

astrofool

His success will be based on what trophies Liverpool win with him being the main addition to the squad (or how close they go).

marco_polo

Sarge wrote:

I really hope im wrong here , but to me it screams Morientes . In saying that i think that he will improve liverpools attacking play but he will not be the prolific goalscorer that liverpool need and want.

Morientes ah now:p , he is bigger faster and younger than Morientes and seems eager to improve his game and progress his career. I think he will become one of the top players in the PL within a couple seasons. If he pitched in with 15 PL goals or so in the first season and improves our general attacking play I would be a very happy man.

Zapp Brannigan

jonny24ie wrote:

And this is coming from a mod of all people!!

Mods are only mods on their own forums, regular posters everywhere else.


He'll be a success, eventually. Maybe not today, maybe not tomorrow, but someday lad. Someday.

Kimbot

Zapp Brannigan wrote:

Mods are only mods on their own forums, regular posters everywhere else.

Yeah but still as a mod he should no that personal abuse ain't tolerated.

SuprSi

I think he'll do ok. His scoring record in la Liga isn't all that, and based on international scoring records I'd much rather have Arsenal's new striker than Torres. I think if he manages to set up a lot of goals and scores his share Liverpool fans will be happy as he's not a prolific striker.

Helix

ill be amazed if hes not crowned the flop of the season to be perfectly honest

marco_polo

Helix wrote:

ill be amazed if hes not crowned the flop of the season to be perfectly honest

** Bookmark post for end of season retrieval ***

Utopia Parkway

SuprSi wrote:

I think he'll do ok. His scoring record in la Liga isn't all that, and based on international scoring records I'd much rather have Arsenal's new striker than Torres. I think if he manages to set up a lot of goals and scores his share Liverpool fans will be happy as he's not a prolific striker.

02-03 = 14
03-04 = 21
04-05 = 20
05-06 = 13
06-07 = 15

Not a bad scoring record for someone who generally played up front by himself in an average team.

Tusky

Utopia Parkway wrote:

02-03 = 14
03-04 = 21
04-05 = 20
05-06 = 13
06-07 = 15

Not a bad scoring record for someone who generally played up front by himself in an average team.

I think its a pretty damn good record when you take into account...

-hes 23
-A.Madrid are v.poor
-He played up front alone for 80% of his time there
-He often played on the wing last season
-Theres a lot more to his game than goals

Zapp Brannigan

I don't think those figures are his La Liga tallies. They might be overalls. But still there very good returns for a young player like Torres.

PHB

Torres
In the league:

02-03 = 13
03-04 = 19
04-05 = 16
05-06 = 13
06-07 = 14

Assists:

02-03 = 0
03-04 = 0
04-05 = 0
05-06 = 3
06-07 = 5

heyjude

The guy is under a lot of pressure due to the big transfer fee, the fact that several big clubs were after him and the fact that many fans see him as the final piece of the jigsaw. But it would be unfair to even start judging him until he's had time to settle in and get used to the Liverpool system and his team-mates.

However, I don't agree with those that seem to suggest that they would be happy if he scored 15 goals a season. Whether Torres is the right style of player or not, he was bought to score goals, if he creates a few too, then thats a bonus, but the team already has enough goalmakers, they need a guy to put the ball in the net and long term if Torres isn't proficient at that, then he isn't what they need. The club already have several players capable of 10-15 goals a season, what they are looking for, is a player capable or 20+ goals season after season and not someone who uses the Carling Cup and CL prelminary round, to notch easy goals.

Liverpool need a player that scores regularly in the knockout stages of the CL and in the big PL games, thats what they paid the big money for and that should be how Torres is judged.

PHB

No, Torres is kinda like Rooney as a player. I don't judge Rooney on how many goals he scores, nor will I judge Torres on that account.

Just because Liverpool need a goalscorer in your opinion doesn't mean you should judge Torres on how many goals he scores. I doubt Rafa has bought him to be a Van Nist style character, he has bought him to be a Rooney style character.

RE*AC*TOR

Zapp Brannigan wrote:

I don't think those figures are his La Liga tallies. They might be overalls. But still there very good returns for a young player like Torres.

According to espnsports last season Torres got 14 goals from 36 starts in La Liga for Atletico. He got 1 goal from 2 starts in the Cup.

For Spain he got 10 goals from 13 starts and 2 subs (excluding friendlies).

Waster

I agree with PHB on this. Nobody criticised Rooney when he scored 14 goals last season despite the fact that Utd paid up to £27m for him. It's about what he brings to the team overall. Hence Utd were happy to let the prolific Ruud leave in order to evolve their play. Rafa has said that he would prefer to have 3 strikers scoring 15 goals each and his teams have tended to score goals from everywhere rather than have one goal machine. I would be happy with 15 goals from Torres this season plus an overall combination to our attacking play.

gosplan

millersangel wrote:

Gosplan, no one here is saying Torres will score 30 goals a season, does he have to do that in order to be a success? Is Rooney a success at United? Was Owen a success at Liverpool (he never scored 20 or more in a season as far as i'm aware)

No, of course not. I just think people are getting carried away a bit with his potential. Aside from Torres and his ability, has Rafa ever had a 20 goal a season man in one of his teams? Just not his style IMO.

I think you picked me up incorrectly. I actually quite like Liverpool and really hope that they challenge. I also have a soft spot for Spaniards and like Torres. My problem is that it seems to be impossible for Liverpool fans and commentators to mention Torres without mentioning 20 goals. As you yourself say, he doesn't need to score 20+ goals to be a success but that seems to be all Liverpool fans can talk about. If Liverpool do really really well this year(and I hope they do) I guarantee the goals will mainly come from Gerrard and the wings.

millersangel wrote:

am i correct in saying you are an arsenal fan?

If thats the case, would you have prefered Torres or Da Silva to join when your season ended? honestly

Torres undoubtedly!!!! but you never know, Da Silva has a much better scoring record. But its neither here nor there to be honest. Arsenal have things Liverpool don't have and Liverpool have things Arsenal don't have.

I just think that, as a Spanish wonderkid, Torres has been over-hyped for quite some time.

Lemlin

I don't think he'll be a twenty goal a season man. Is he that type of player?

I can see him adding alot ot Liverpool's play and scoring between 10 and 15. I also think he'll have a tough year adjusting this year. There's alot of pressure on him.

Only last week he missed that penalty against Pompey and Sky Sports (tablod garbage I know) were almost dismissing him as a failure already. He needs to get a few early goals or the pressure will certainly mount.

~Rebel~

Lemlin wrote:

He needs to get a few early goals or the pressure will certainly mount.

I agree. I think the game against Villa on opening day and the champions league qualifier in the following midweek are massive for him to get some confidence before we face chelsea on the following weekend. If he can perform in that game he'll be fine, but if it passes him by the pressure afterwards will be much worse.

I want him given a lot of game time in rotterdam anyway, ideally an hour against Shanghai so he can get an easy goal or 2 and hopefully another hour against Feyenord, a more realistic level of competitor. Want him to have had plenty of time on the pitch in a match situation with his new team mates by the time the season starts proper.

~Rebel~

<EDIT>
Weirdest double post ever..15minutes after the original..

Lemlin

~Rebel~ wrote:

I agree. I think the game against Villa on opening day and the champions league qualifier in the following midweek are massive for him to get some confidence before we face chelsea on the following weekend. If he can perform in that game he'll be fine, but if it passes him by the pressure afterwards will be much worse.

I want him given a lot of game time in rotterdam anyway, ideally an hour against Shanghai so he can get an easy goal or 2 and hopefully another hour against Feyenord, a more realistic level of competitor. Want him to have had plenty of time on the pitch in a match situation with his new team mates by the time the season starts proper.

One player who had alot of pressure put on him but came through it is Drogba. People will tell you he was poor for his first two seasons. I don't think so.

He did alot of good work for Chelsea but, because he wasn't scoring, he got alot of criticism. This year Chelsea changed their style of play and allowed him to show his skills and its only now he's getting the credit he deserves.

I fear the same thing could happen to Torres. Alot of people are expecting him to be a Ruud van Nistelrooy and get up on thirty goals but, as pointed out, he's more of a Rooney-style player who gets ten to fifteen and does alot of work for the team.

He could really benefit a player like Kuyt IMO. Although I wouldn't label Kuyt anywhere near "excellent" as he was described above.

I still think Liverpool have sold their best striker. I don't think they played the football that suits Bellamy though. Mark my words, he'll be a revelation at West Ham.

mike65

Torres should'nt worry for a second nor should Pool fans, look at Crouchy. First 19 games without a goal and ultimately it did'nt matter a jot, he was playing well and Liverpool played better with him in the side even when not scoring (in my view).

Anyway Pool fans know the new scoring sensation is actually Voronin who has no pressure/price tag weighing him down (half-serious in that last comment).

Mike.

~Rebel~

theres a totally different level of expectation for Torres then crouch though.

But having said that i still think the fans will give him a fair go of it.

What i meant in my post was that i'd worry for him if he lets the chelsea game, and a few others at the start of the season pass him by, not necessarily that he needs to score, but i could see the pressure mounting quickly if he's not at least performing to a decent standard. Crouchy, for all his lack of scoring at the start was playing fantastically in everything but the final finish.

Average-Ro

Player Diego Forlan Fernando Torres
Appearances 36 36
Minutes On Pitch 3,019 3,097
Goals 19 14
Shots On Target 57 45
Shots Off Target 40 45
Shooting Accuracy 59% 50%
Chance Conversion 20% 16%
Goal Assists 1 5
Total Passes 842 754
Pass Completion % 75% 65%
Fouls 21 71
Offside 25 30
Yellow Cards 2 4
Red Cards 0 1

Gotta love stats! Suppose you'll have to take into account that Torres played on the wing for most of last season.