What is a "service"?

Balfa

I know, it's a strange question... All the driving I did in Ireland was in my ma's car and she took care of taking it for a "service".

Since moving to Dallas, I've been taking care of my own car, and I take it in for regular "oil changes". I've always assumed a "service" was an "oil change" (which includes changing the engine oil, the oil filter and various value added extras such as refilling washer fluid, checking tyre pressures and possibly tyre rotation). This is generally recommended every 3,750 miles (6,000km) OR every 3 months, whichever comes first.

But now I'm starting to think there might be a difference?
I saw in a recent thread that a typical interval between services is one YEAR, or two years if it's on a long service schedule... Is that just like a regular service, but with synthetic oil or something?

So: What does a "service" actually involve?

Darragh29

It depends very much on the outlet you are dealing with.

Anan1

The short answer to your question is that a service involves whatever maintenance is dictated by the manufacturer's service schedule. You can usually find this in the car's service booklet.

crosstownk

A service comprises of certain checks, adjustments, etc that the manufacturer recommends at specific intervals. Examples are - change engine oil, replace engine oil filter, check brake pad/shoe thickness, interrogate fault memory, check/replace air & pollen filters, check tyre thread depth/condition, check/top up coolant, grease locks & hinges, etc, etc, etc. In Europe, this service usually happens at intervals such as 1 or 2 years or at a specific mileage. In some cases a variety of sensors linked to the odometer and a clock determine the interval. I've seen some long life Passats request a service at 15,000km - I've seen others not make the request until 45,000km. It depends on driving style e.g. long runs vs. short runs. Anyone with a new model Passat can check the mileage/time to a next service by pressing the spanner button on the right of the dash clocks prior to pressing the key home to start the engine.

However, in the USA there is a different culture - especially regarding oil changes. I couldn't believe the amount of cars queuing up for a lube service at an Exxon station in Arlington, VA. When I enquired from a guy who was queuing he told me that he gets this done regularly - 6/7 times per year :eek:. Now I know that miles can roll up real quick in the states, but I do think that that amount of oil changes is excessive (not that it will do any harm). I've never checked the service intervals/schedules on US makes & models, but I doubt very much that any modern car needs an oil change every 5,000 miles.

Anan1

crosstownk wrote:

However, in the USA there is a different culture - especially regarding oil changes. I couldn't believe the amount of cars queuing up for a lube service at an Exxon station in Arlington, VA. When I enquired from a guy who was queuing he told me that he gets this done regularly - 6/7 times per year :eek:. Now I know that miles can roll up real quick in the states, but I do think that that amount of oil changes is excessive (not that it will do any harm). I've never checked the service intervals/schedules on US makes & models, but I doubt very much that any modern car needs an oil change every 5,000 miles.

I think I remember reading somewhere that manufacturers recommended oil change intervals are much shorter in the US. Whether it's to do with heavier traffic, product liability, profit, or whatever I don't know.

rebel.ranter

Have a look the the link below. It will show you what is typically checked during a service. Most manufacters will have different levels of service. BMW's levels happen to be Oil Service, Inspection 1 & Inspection 2.

Another thing I find frustrating in this country (Ireland) is that people assume that if a car goes in for a service with problems that it will automatically be covered by a service. This is not the case, you either tell the garage/mechanic to fix the issue that's causing problems. OR you request the mechanic to inform you that work is required. That way no work is progressed without your approval but problems are identified.

http://www.savagebmw.com/Service/content_service_Intervals.htm

peasant

Anan1 wrote:

I think I remember reading somewhere that manufacturers recommended oil change intervals are much shorter in the US. Whether it's to do with heavier traffic, product liability, profit, or whatever I don't know.

They still make pushrod engines ffs

crosstownk

rebel.ranter wrote:

Another thing I find frustrating in this country (Ireland) is that people assume that if a car goes in for a service with problems that it will automatically be covered by a service. This is not the case, you either tell the garage/mechanic to fix the issue that's causing problems. OR you request the mechanic to inform you that work is required. That way no work is progressed without your approval but problems are identified.

I agree. So many customers send cars in for a service and expect the technicians to be telepathic. Some problems don't appear in a regular service - especially problems that are intermittent in nature. If the problem occurs after the service the garage get blamed for not picking it up during the service :rolleyes:

I remember being told by an elderly customer to "give it whatever it needs". Now the wipers were in sh1te and left tracks across the screen. The mechanic came to me and asked did the customer want wipers and I told him to fit them based on what the customer told me. When she came to collect the car and inspected the invoice she complained. I gave her the wipers for free in the end - it wasn't worth the hassle - I wasn't going to start an argument with an elderly customer.

daedalus2097

peasant wrote:

They still make pushrod engines ffs

And run on coach springs :eek:

colm_mcm

and they're fat

Del2005

Oil changes in the US are nearly all at 5k miles. We had a load hired and they all had to go back at 5k for an oil change, even on Focus's and other modern Japanese/Korean cars. Over here the same cars are getting serviced at 10-20k.

demanufactured

obviously cars last a lot longer over there because of this.

Altreab

Del2005 wrote:

Oil changes in the US are nearly all at 5k miles. We had a load hired and they all had to go back at 5k for an oil change, even on Focus's and other modern Japanese/Korean cars. Over here the same cars are getting serviced at 10-20k.

Could it be that the oils used are in general non synthetic and therefore break down quicker in the USA? Its only been in the last 10 years that car service intervals have moved from 5-6000 miles to more like 9-10000 miles now.

hi5

They use syntehics just like here,but fuel octanes are a lot lower,dont know if that makes a difference,
Also the oils recommended are getting thinner and thinner to pass ever stricter manufacturing emmission quotas.

http://www.nordicgroup.us/oil.htm#The%203000%20Mile%20Myth

"Maintenance Schedules Vary by Country
Different countries have different maintenance schedules, even for the same car. This fact has been the cause of long argument threads on Usenet. How could the exact same car need a different service schedule simply because of where the vehicle is used? At least part of the reason is due to the differences in fuel. For example, the U.S. and Canada has fuel with high sulphur levels which can cause more oil contamination. Japanese fuel has very low sulphur levels. Europe is in-between. Some of the newer engine technology (direct injection) which raises fuel economy, requires low sulphur fuel. Of course the oil companies have a vested interest in not lowering the sulphur as it adds to refining cost and enables more fuel efficient engines. Since "Big Oil" is in bed with the un-elected president in the U.S., don't expect any action of lower sulphur fuel for a while in the United States. If Al Gore is re-elected in 2004, and the Supremes don't simply ignore the election results again, then there is a chance for lower sulphur fuel in the U.S. beginning in 2005".

PauloMN

Something I hear a lot is "I can't understand how my car failed the NCT, I only got it serviced last week".

I would imagine most garages do not have emmissions testing equipment, nor would they have the suspension testing equipment that the NCT centre uses. In fact most probably don't have proper headlight alignment equipment either.

Why do people assume that just because they've had an oil/plugs/filters change and top ups etc. that the car will sail through the NCT?

Seth Brundle

To most outets it appears that a service is a case of changing the oil, plugs and filters and visually checking brake pad thickness. I have never heard of a dealer offering to do a brake fluid change as a matter of routine, etc.

Balfa

hi5 wrote:

They use syntehics just like here

Uh, no they don't. I've never put synthetic oil in my car, nor has my wife in hers. That would certainly explain part of the difference in intervals... So, if they all use synthetics, what's the difference in Ireland between a normal service schedule and a "long-life" service schedule? What do they do that's different?


On a side note, what does a service typically cost in rip-off Ireland? Most here run you $30 but Walmart do them for $18.30 incl. tax. (€13.41)

Seth Brundle

If you pay $30, never mind $18, for a service don't expect too much!

Darragh29

PauloMN wrote:

Something I hear a lot is "I can't understand how my car failed the NCT, I only got it serviced last week".

I would imagine most garages do not have emmissions testing equipment, nor would they have the suspension testing equipment that the NCT centre uses. In fact most probably don't have proper headlight alignment equipment either.

Why do people assume that just because they've had an oil/plugs/filters change and top ups etc. that the car will sail through the NCT?

To be honest, any garage worth it's salt should at least have a headlamp aligner. I'll probably get a post back telling me that I'm "uppity" or whatever but I think in 2007, most garages that are serious about servicing, maintenance and in particular pre-nct work would also have a 4 gas analyser. We have the computerised test lane for testing sideslip, suspension and brake systems, but then and again, we specialise in NCT work so the investment was an absolute requirement for us. I think the standard for a "service" is now approaching the same standard for the NCT. A service for us means the same as an NCT, but with the addition of parts replaced such as oil, oil filter, air filter, plugs or diesel filter, windscreen wipers, etc. Also a service valet and car wash. Any item that would cause an NCT fail, down to a blown bulb over your rear reg plate, a nick on a tyre wall, excess O2 in the exhaust, brake imbalance over 30%, etc., should get detected here and advised to you if you are in for a service.

Zaph

PauloMN wrote:

Something I hear a lot is "I can't understand how my car failed the NCT, I only got it serviced last week".

Well garages not doing their job properly is one way. I got my car serviced before its NCT a few weeks ago, and made a point of asking whether the headlights had been aligned when I collected it. I was told everything's fine. I brought it in for the NCT and it flew through everything except that one of the headlights was too high. :mad: I had to bring it back to the garage (a well known main dealer, not some guy in an alley) where they realigned the light, and it passed its re-test, which cost me €27.50, which to my mind the garage should have paid for but there wasn't any point telling them that.

bushy...

peasant wrote:

They still make pushrod engines ffs

Whats wrong with pushrods in the approriate engine ? Ohc seems a bit pointless in some of the eurowonders

Darragh29

zaph wrote:

Well garages not doing their job properly is one way. I got my car serviced before its NCT a few weeks ago, and made a point of asking whether the headlights had been aligned when I collected it. I was told everything's fine. I brought it in for the NCT and it flew through everything except that one of the headlights was too high. :mad: I had to bring it back to the garage (a well known main dealer, not some guy in an alley) where they realigned the light, and it passed its re-test, which cost me €27.50, which to my mind the garage should have paid for but there wasn't any point telling them that.

Well when it comes to headlamps, it's very difficult to get the NCT to pass headlamps, even when the car is being driven from the garage after aligning headlamps up to the NCT centre. I had one case recently where I aligned headlamps myself on a car due for the NCT, I brought the car to the NCT centre myself ten minutes later and it just about passed. Also, I'd be surprised if you brought your car to a main dealer that they would align your headlamps for you, especially if it's a large main dealer as you said. When you go to these places, your lucky to get your oil and filter changed, never mind get things like headlamps aligned, etc. This is usually not part of a main dealer service, if they were to do it at all, you would be charged extra for it, so if you didn't see it on your bill as a separate charge, I'd say it wasn't done at all on the first occasion.

Zaph

I specifically asked them to do the headlights as the NCT was coming up. It's listed separately on the invoice.

Darragh29

zaph wrote:

I specifically asked them to do the headlights as the NCT was coming up. It's listed separately on the invoice.

Maybe it was done, I dunno. I know from contacts in the trade that main dealerships couldn't be bothered their arses with NCT work, they see it as hassle, "if it fails it fails, whatever", seems to be the prevalent attitude. They make more money charging 300 Euro plus for a glorified oil change than to be wasting their time going through the NCT checklist for a customer. They'll still charge you for it though!

Balfa

I really would like to know the technical differences between a normal a long-life service schedule, by the way!

crosstownk

Balfa wrote:

I really would like to know the technical differences between a normal a long-life service schedule, by the way!

I don't know if this exactly what you're looking for.............. > http://www.volkswagen.co.uk/assets/Longlife_servicing.pdf

craichoe

zaph wrote:

I specifically asked them to do the headlights as the NCT was coming up. It's listed separately on the invoice.

This is a common thing to happen, it can get knocked out of alignment from driving, hitting a pothole for example can throw it off.