Entertainment V Sport [Warning - may upset some]

Fatboydim

My eight year old loves wrestling. We've taken him to see Smackdown and Raw events in Dublin and Vegas [Vegas was unreal] and it would be no surprise that his favourite wrestler is Rey Mysterio. I would not say I am a fan of WWE, ECW, TNA and it's derivatives - but I do enjoy it because of my son.

The topic I'd like to raise is suggested in the title and I don't wish to upset people - so if it's inappropriate mods please lock - or if you don't like this kind of thing then please stop reading.

But having been to several of these events, and watching it most weeks on TV, and having done fight training - how can titles and the sport aspect of wrestling be taken seriously? After all it is World Wrestling Entertainment and the emphasis is on Entertainment. But there is no doubt that many take this very seriously indeed. I noticed in the US that far more adults attend [ie: not just taking the kids] than here in Ireland. And there were three very loud American girls behind me in Vegas who were absolutely hooked into the belief that what they were seeing is not a rehearsed "show" but a live event with an uncertain outcome.

So is it just well presented pantomime - or is there more to it than that?

BTW I think there is no doubt that the wrestlers are very fit, skilled and have a talent. Edge and Eddie Guerrero would have to be my favourites.

MikeHoncho

Athleticism + storylines = sports entertainment. If your over 10 years old and think its real your a moron. Doesnt stop it being great entertainment though.

Double C

Americans are just dumb. It always cracks me up watching Raw and seeing fully grown adults react to a wrestling match the they would to a football or basketball match.

To answer your question though, it is a well presented pantomime, but there is more to it than that!
TBH I don't think anyone who posts here believe it's a legit sport so I don't think you'll cause any offence.

On a personal level, I realise it's all booked and staged and that they aren't hurting each other but I watch anyway just to see what happens. I also appreciate the high level of commitment and work ethic that goes into being a professional wrestler, especially at the highest level.

Wrestling is an art form in that it takes a lot of ability to not actually hurt someone, but make it look as if you just killed someone. The same applies to selling injuries. Unfortunately over the last 3 years WWE has lost two of the very best in Benoit and Guerrero as well as countless others who pushed their minds and bodies too far in order to succeed.

ShawnRaven

MikeHoncho wrote:

Athleticism + storylines = sports entertainment. If your over 10 years old and think its real your a moron. Doesnt stop it being great entertainment though.

Pretty much it. Sometimes the storylines are better than the athletecism (see era, Attitude). The chances are if you see people screaming (or marking out as the case may be) at live events, the chances are they saw something that was unexpected, like a certain move, or high flying antics, or plain out and out something that actually wasn't meant to happen (and was obvious!).

But then, Dr Who, Star Trek, Corrie, Eastenders (aren't real either.
But as Mike said, doesn't so em from being great entertainment (depending of course, if one is into any of the above, which i must say i'm not).

VR!

The Sparrow

I think its more than well presented pantomime but there is an element of that for sure. I don`t really understand the difference between cheering at a rehearsed show like wrestling or at something unrehearsed like a football game. For the most part even though something is rehearsed, I still don`t know the outcome of it. So really it doesn`t make that much difference to me. Its the same reason why different people will get engrossed in a film or a play; it doesn`t matter that it is rehearsed because you weren't there for the rehearsals and you don`t know the outcome.

I think the titles and sports aspect of the sport can be taken seriously if they are booked to look seriously. No matter what I watch, the suspension of disbelief is the key ingredient. Obviously in a soccer game I have no reason to disbelieve its validity but if pro-wrestling (or 24, Die Hard 4.0 or even MacBeth) is presented in a manner that does not insult my intelligence then I am more than happy to go along for the ride.

Wrestling appeals to many ppl for many different reasons. Some people like the big production and storylines whilst others just want the technical ring action. It doesn`t really matter. I view wrestling as like a modern day circus but with actual ppl entertaining the fans and doing tricks instead of the animals!

Carsinian Thau

MikeHoncho wrote:

If your over 10 years old and think its real your a moron.

And you're calling them morons? How ironic.

Fatboydim

Good replies - Thank you.
I guess one of the problems for us in Ireland is that the shows at the point are never filmed - therefore you know that belts are not going to exchange hands.

But now I know this forum exists I'll keep an eye on it - Thanks guys.

bombidol

To call all Americans morons means you are an idiot. Its simply a choice in entertainment, 99% of fans know its fixed but its simply their own choice to get wrapped up in it and go mental.

Fozzy

I never actually liked wrestling until I realised it wasn't a real sport. It's an art, not much different from a film but the story is told in a different way. People getting wrapped up in wrestling is no different to someone enjoying a good film and not wanting the hero to die or whatever it is

Fatboydim wrote:

I guess one of the problems for us in Ireland is that the shows at the point are never filmed - therefore you know that belts are not going to exchange hands.

Belts changed hands twice on European tours in the last year, Nunzio won the Cruiserweight title in Italy on a non-televised show and I think it was Mickie James who won the women's title in Germany recently, although that was a mistake by the referee apparently

gimmick

Ill stay in keeping with the majority here, and say that its just a well chereographed spectacle. I love pro wrestling, some pro wrestling more than others, and do tend to get wrapped up in it from time to time at live events, and this has happened at every promotion Ive seen live (admittedly 3). Nothing wrong with that. In fact a few weeks ago, at an IWW event, I was absolutely furious Doug Williams did the job for the Ballymun Bruiser. I knew it was pre determined and all, but I was not happy at all about it.

Its a show, and thats why it bothers me when people say "oh its fake", and "oh they are only actors". Its not fake, its pre determined or staged, and they are not actors, look at certain promos ffs.

The Bull

Double C wrote:

Americans are just dumb. It always cracks me up watching Raw and seeing fully grown adults react to a wrestling match the they would to a football or basketball match.

Alot of these so called dumb american adults probally grew up with wrestling and where once kids let say back in the 80's (hogan and co) and followed the wrestling the shows as passionatly as young irish kids today. Who knows mabe in ten to twenty years time there will be a large section of the irish audences grown adults who have followed it from been kids and now munching burgers, weighing 300lb and yokling like there dumb americans friends of today. DAMN !
You know the old saying "Monkey see Monkey Do".

MikeHoncho

Carsinian Thau wrote:

And you're calling them morons? How ironic.

OOOh look the spelling and gramar police showed up. Have you nothing better to do with you're time. Slightly bitter about other boys getting all the girls in school when you were so much smarter than them. Why dont you get a life you complete and utter tosser.

MikeHoncho

bombidol wrote:

To call all Americans morons means you are an idiot. Its simply a choice in entertainment, 99% of fans know its fixed but its simply their own choice to get wrapped up in it and go mental.

I dont think anyone said all Americans were morons did they?

Double C

The Bull wrote:

Alot of these so called dumb american adults probally grew up with wrestling and where once kids let say back in the 80's (hogan and co) and followed the wrestling the shows as passionatly as young irish kids today. Who knows mabe in ten to twenty years time there will be a large section of the irish audences grown adults who have followed it from been kids and now munching burgers, weighing 300lb and yokling like there dumb americans friends of today. DAMN !
You know the old saying "Monkey see Monkey Do".

When I said Americans were dumb it was such a broad generalisation that I assumed it would be interpreted as a tongue in cheek comment. Also the point I made about adults overreacting was directed at the people who go insane for Lashley winning a match or something equally mediocre. I wasn't saying there is anything wrong in showing passion for wrestling. I anyone saw me marking out like a mad man for the last two matches at ROH Unified last year they would know how strongly I felt about those matches' outcomes.

Carsinian Thau

MikeHoncho wrote:

Why dont you get a life you complete and utter tosser.

If I wasn't alive how could I have posted originally?

Carsinian Thau

MikeHoncho wrote:

gramar

Also, that's not how you spell grammar.

Just pointing it out.

Fozzy

Lads, enough of the pettiness. If you're not going to contribute to a thread, then why post?

LivingDead

MikeHoncho wrote:

Have you nothing better to do with you're time.

Ummmm... I think you need to learn to spell before insulting people.

On the topic.
Why do Adults go see Action Movies? I've seen people stand up, cheer, and clap in a cinema when the hero wins. It's the same thing as wrestling.
I don't think anyone takes wrestling as "serious" as you think. It's just fun. You get sucked into the entertainment aspect of it. You forget that it's all staged and you start to become compelled with the story that's being told in the ring.

Terry

What was it that Vince said when asked if wrestling is real?

Something along the lines of 'It's about as real as an air kiss from your lesbian ex-girlfriend'.

It's only entertainment, man.

Bubs101

For me the fact that it's pre-written is a massive advantage in this kind of sport. In boxing and MMA there are some fights which are just unwatchable or are over in an instant, particularly boxing these days.

rossie1977

Double C wrote:

Americans are just dumb. It always cracks me up watching Raw and seeing fully grown adults react to a wrestling match the they would to a football or basketball match.

The best events i have been to are those, I, as a member of the audience gets involved in. Audience participation is vital i believe to the overall success of a wrestling match. If the crowd are dead then 99 times out of 100 this will have a detrimental effect on the match in question.

I will always remember the time HBK made his comeback at Summerslam 2002. The crowd was white hot, i was standing ringside behind the announcers table shouting wildly for HBK, then this really hot girl came up to where i was and starting shouting for Triple H, we had a great argument as to who was the best wrestler

While at a live event, i believe all wrestling fans pretend that they don't know wrestling is pre-determined and in essence enter another world. I do it all the time (and i know all about the workings of pro-wrestling having friends who work in the business). i would find it boring if i just sat on my hands at a live event.

estebancambias

I get seriously involved in wrestling. Wrestling IS a sport. People are talking about wrestling being entertainment(in that it uses storylines) but ROH uses storylines minimally. People who go to a ROH show are not looking for the storylines, they're looking for the wrestling.

the flananator

Fatboydim wrote:

My eight year old loves wrestling. We've taken him to see Smackdown and Raw events in Dublin and Vegas [Vegas was unreal] and it would be no surprise that his favourite wrestler is Rey Mysterio. I would not say I am a fan of WWE, ECW, TNA and it's derivatives - but I do enjoy it because of my son.

The topic I'd like to raise is suggested in the title and I don't wish to upset people - so if it's inappropriate mods please lock - or if you don't like this kind of thing then please stop reading.

But having been to several of these events, and watching it most weeks on TV, and having done fight training - how can titles and the sport aspect of wrestling be taken seriously? After all it is World Wrestling Entertainment and the emphasis is on Entertainment. But there is no doubt that many take this very seriously indeed. I noticed in the US that far more adults attend [ie: not just taking the kids] than here in Ireland. And there were three very loud American girls behind me in Vegas who were absolutely hooked into the belief that what they were seeing is not a rehearsed "show" but a live event with an uncertain outcome.

So is it just well presented pantomime - or is there more to it than that?

BTW I think there is no doubt that the wrestlers are very fit, skilled and have a talent. Edge and Eddie Guerrero would have to be my favourites.

The only thing I find insulting is that you think this thread might "upset" me. You don't get wrestling? Thats fine. Go and watch Die Hard or something were people ACTUALLY DIE.