Shotgun for Beginners

Our man in Havana

Can anyone recommend a good shotgun for someone who wants to shoot clays? Any particular makes?

Also what are the chances of getting a licence for a shotgun if I already have a rifle licence? Will the Gardai get arsey as to why do I want to have 2 guns?

Thanks for the advice.

dimebag249

Could you give some general indication of your budget, Mr. Bond? Personally I am poor, so I would recommend a Baikal over and under, you'll get a second-hand one very cheap. People will tell you that you need to spend thousands, but starting off a Baikal won't do you wrong. Generally rifle licences seem to be harder to get than shotgun licences, so I can't see their being a problem, but the more guns you have the more likely they'll be sticky about security

Remmy

Id recommend something like a lanber sporter .They go for around a 1000 but if you got one second hand all the better.Just find a nice over/under that fits you well thats in your budget.Check out the miroku range of shotguns.Slightly dearer than the lanber's but better put together i think.

Remmy

Our man in Havana

€200 would be my budget, I paid €300 for the rifle on reflection I paid too much. I would assume that my existing gun safe would be good enough for the security aspect.

macnab

Get down to your local gun dealer, they will have a shed load of guns now that the licences are up for renewal. €200 will not get you much in the lines of a shotgun, in fact id say dont bother if you cant afford more. If you are shooting clays with a €200 gun it wont last, it will overheat constantlly. If you get into the sport at all you will want to upgrade your gun within a month so save yourself the trouble and spend €500+ now. Pricewise you cant compare rifles to shotguns as shotguns are of a much heavier construction to withstand much larger forces than rifles have to put up with, and trap guns are heavier again than game guns to reduce recoil and to be able to put up with heavy repeated use.

rrpc

Also be prepared to spend shedloads of money competing. If you thought that rifle rounds were expensive, start paying for shotgun shells at a rate of 50 to 100 per day when your taking part in a competition, not counting the cost of clays, travel and eating out.

The shotgun is the cheapest part (and that's after paying for a good one).

dimebag249

I'd say you might get a second hand Baikal over/under for two fifty Mr. Bond. It's a shotgun. It'll shoot as straight as a €10,000 shotgun. It won't fail. I would strongly recommend that you save around €150 at the same time for 1000 shells. From my experience the Baikals work and have a bit of weight to them. Spend a lot and you might decide 'I should have gotten an automatic', or such. Shop wisely and you'll be able to flog the Baikal for close to what you paid fot it when you have more spare cash.

Our man in Havana

Thanks for the advice folks.

thejackal

there are many people in ireland that have up to 10 guns in ireland you wont have a problem to many people make the mistake of shooting i abaikal dont get me wrong a great killing gun but if you are planning to shoot clays it has to much recoil i would suggest a yildiz shotgun turkish made and has the same timber as they use in the berettas. and the are very reasonably priced new at around 800

tippbhoy

Bump.

Got a bit of the bug on my mates shot gun recently and contemplating a gun for clays. Typically what would be the recommended beginner gun and what would be the basic things to look out for when buying a second hand gun? Let's say €500, an over and under, something light would be nice. I know the obvious, over and under, ejectors, recoil pad etc. if there were 10 second hand guns in front of me i wouldn't know which one to pick, the shiniest probably....

any tips please?

Chopperdog 2 knows his stuff about shotguns.. he should be around soon..

tippbhoy

Deleted User wrote:

Chopperdog 2 knows his stuff about shotguns.. he should be around soon..

the pressure is on then

recipio

I watched the clay shoot at the Game Fair in Birr and was amazed that a lot of the guns did'nt have ejectors. Are they only fitted to more expensive guns ?

bullets

recipio wrote:

I watched the clay shoot at the Game Fair in Birr and was amazed that a lot of the guns did'nt have ejectors. Are they only fitted to more expensive guns ?

I shot the 50 Bird shoot in Birr and only managed a miserable 9 hits
Having the ejectors on the gun while nice kinda annoyed me for
that situation where it was easier to pull the emptys out and put
them in the bin rather than having them eject onto the ground or
having to tilt the gun. But I guess if shooting game then
they would be handy to have for fast reloading.

I noticed that a lot of the guys with the fancy gear missed
a lot of the time too. There was only a few (that I saw) that
were hitting most of what they were shooting at consistently.
wondering what would be the average Hits out of 50 be for an
experienced/average shooter?

I tried Clays twice before once as a teenager and during the year
both times I did not take to it naturally. (I seemed to take to Rifle like a duck to water)
just not the shotgun. I ended up a small bit annoyed and frustrated until a few weeks ago.
I went out Locally to a man in Rathkeale who gave me some coaching for the evening,
by the end of the night I was happily shooting away and hitting stuff and did not
want to stop. (Spend 50 Bucks that night on Clays and Cartridges) And shot
with a very nice Browning Yummy compared to his other guns he had their.
(Of course all the coaching went out the window when I was shooting in Birr)

The Same night I was shooting with Vegeta and another Lad from Work
Both had repeaters, Vegeta's gun just would not cycle the rounds no matter
what he did. Think it was a Benelli. The other Lad had a Browning Gold??? Repeater
that worked fine but the Barrel needed cool down time.

Kinda made me want to get an over and under after seeing cycle problems with a repeater
if its gonna be fussy bout ammo types. And I like the idea of being able to break
the barrel.

Like Bond-007 I also want to start getting into Clay shooting. As its a 2hr drive to
the range for Rifle at least with clays I can shoot more locally on the weekends
that I cant make it to Midlands. (Or can do it in evenings)

I wont be buying til around Christmas or after it. I want a 2nd hand Over and Under,
For Clays only. (ie I wont be shooting game with it) I would like a Browning, Want to spend
under 1000 Euro. Have been told by some peeps that ya can pick up a pretty decent
browning for around 800 Euros.

~B

tippbhoy

bullets wrote:

I shot the 50 Bird shoot in Birr and only managed a miserable 9 hits
Having the ejectors on the gun while nice kinda annoyed me for
that situation where it was easier to pull the emptys out and put
them in the bin rather than having them eject onto the ground or
having to tilt the gun. But I guess if shooting game then
they would be handy to have for fast reloading.

I noticed that a lot of the guys with the fancy gear missed
a lot of the time too. There was only a few (that I saw) that
were hitting most of what they were shooting at consistently.
wondering what would be the average Hits out of 50 be for an
experienced/average shooter?

I tried Clays twice before once as a teenager and during the year
both times I did not take to it naturally. (I seemed to take to Rifle like a duck to water)
just not the shotgun. I ended up a small bit annoyed and frustrated until a few weeks ago.
I went out Locally to a man in Rathkeale who gave me some coaching for the evening,
by the end of the night I was happily shooting away and hitting stuff and did not
want to stop. (Spend 50 Bucks that night on Clays and Cartridges) And shot
with a very nice Browning Yummy compared to his other guns he had their.
(Of course all the coaching went out the window when I was shooting in Birr)

The Same night I was shooting with Vegeta and another Lad from Work
Both had repeaters, Vegeta's gun just would not cycle the rounds no matter
what he did. Think it was a Benelli. The other Lad had a Browning Gold??? Repeater
that worked fine but the Barrel needed cool down time.

Kinda made me want to get an over and under after seeing cycle problems with a repeater
if its gonna be fussy bout ammo types. And I like the idea of being able to break
the barrel.

Like Bond-007 I also want to start getting into Clay shooting. As its a 2hr drive to
the range for Rifle at least with clays I can shoot more locally on the weekends
that I cant make it to Midlands. (Or can do it in evenings)

I wont be buying til around Christmas or after it. I want a 2nd hand Over and Under,
For Clays only. (ie I wont be shooting game with it) I would like a Browning, Want to spend
under 1000 Euro. Have been told by some peeps that ya can pick up a pretty decent
browning for around 800 Euros.

~B

"The Same night I was shooting with Vegeta and another Lad from Work
Both had repeaters, Vegeta's gun just would not cycle the rounds no matter
what he did. Think it was a Benelli. The other Lad had a Browning Gold??? Repeater
that worked fine but the Barrel needed cool down time."

Thanks for the info, can someone explain the above paragraph, what's a repeater, is this an automatic shotgun?

bullets

tippbhoy wrote:

Thanks for the info, can someone explain the above paragraph, what's a repeater, is this an automatic shotgun?

Not sure If I used the correct term but using the word automatic just feels wrong.
Stick your rounds up the tube, Gun cocks itself and fires at each trigger pull.
(but not a pump action) Semi-Auto maybe might have been the correct term?


~B

Rovi

tippbhoy wrote:

"The Same night I was shooting with Vegeta and another Lad from Work
Both had repeaters, Vegeta's gun just would not cycle the rounds no matter
what he did. Think it was a Benelli. The other Lad had a Browning Gold??? Repeater
that worked fine but the Barrel needed cool down time."

Thanks for the info, can someone explain the above paragraph, what's a repeater, is this an automatic shotgun?

I suspect the OP is referring to semi-automatics, although the term 'repeater' applies to any firearm that is reloaded from a magazine either manually (pump, lever, bolt) or automatically (semi-automatics in this jurisdiction, one shot per trigger pull).
As opposed to single shots, which contain one cartridge at a time and must be individually reloaded after each shot. Double barrel shotguns are merely two single shots stuck together.

alan123

For two hundred quid just take whatever you can get! It will get you started and give you a feel for clay shooting etc. I dont think its that dear (compared to passtimes like golf). 100 shells will cost you about twenty quid and give you lots of fun strolling the fields firing at crows and pigeons, but thats as cheap as it gets! No probs on the subsequent licence, the first one is the hardest particularly a rifle. Just see what the dealer has out the back or ask your firearms man in the local Garda station, they often get handed in guns for disposal.

Chopperdog 2

Thanks for the compliment Zaraba,

Tippbhoy, so much to consider in buying a gun for clay shooting.

As the lads said, fit is probably one of the most important factors.
Does the gun gun feel comfortable?
Does it come straight to the shoulder pocket every mount?
Does your eye naturally line up down the barrel without any conscious adjustment?
Is the stock long/short enough for your stature?
Is the degree of cast correct for you?
Is the comb the right height?

All this aside, you need a gun that will itself tolerate sustained periods of shooting to avoid overheating and more importantly, a gun that does not kick excessively.

By all means avoid a light gun, it may be easier to carry or quicker to mount but you will definitely will pay the price in recoil.
Essentially, the lighter the gun, the heavier the kick.

A previous poster has recommended Yildiz and Baikal, everyone to their own but I wouldnt touch them as a clay gun. They are rough and ready, fine for a few shots in the field but will not bring out the best you are capable of on the clay range.

At €500 you might pick up a 2nd hand older generation lanber (great starter gun) or scan around for the older brownings or a Winchester 101.
You should be able to pick up a medallist (Browning) on your budget.

Stick another €300 on your funds and you could be in line for 2nd hand berettas. A 2nd hand gun in this price range will hold its value, invariably you will get back what you paid for it, once you dont use it as a gardening tool:)

I am a self proclaimed gun snob, this is from years of experience instructing clay shooting and appreciating the greater comfort and performance achieved in using a quality gun.
That is why I recommend you to take a little time and search around for a gun that will suit your needs.

Do not let any dealer sell you a game gun, you want a sporter and only a sporter if clay shooting is to be your main use for this gun.

Feel free to PM me if you need any further help or recommendations while searching for a gun.

Rememberto stay away from the new shiny ones on your budget, think, would you rather buy a new Lada (or even worse, a 2nd hand Lada) or a 2nd hand quality BMW. Its the same with guns.
Lada = Baikal/Yildiz BMW = Beretta/Browning?Miroke/Lanber

Good luck with the search

alan123

What do you shoot Chopper?

SMERSH

alan123 wrote:

For two hundred quid just take whatever you can get! It will get you started and give you a feel for clay shooting etc. I dont think its that dear (compared to passtimes like golf). 100 shells will cost you about twenty quid and give you lots of fun strolling the fields firing at crows and pigeons, but thats as cheap as it gets! No probs on the subsequent licence, the first one is the hardest particularly a rifle. Just see what the dealer has out the back or ask your firearms man in the local Garda station, they often get handed in guns for disposal.

Ok, Will I need to get another 2 letters from farmers to get a subsequent licence or will the 2 I used to get the first gun still suffice?

tippbhoy

Chopperdog 2 wrote:

Thanks for the compliment Zaraba,

Tippbhoy, so much to consider in buying a gun for clay shooting.

As the lads said, fit is probably one of the most important factors.
Does the gun gun feel comfortable?
Does it come straight to the shoulder pocket every mount?
Does your eye naturally line up down the barrel without any conscious adjustment?
Is the stock long/short enough for your stature?
Is the degree of cast correct for you?
Is the comb the right height?

All this aside, you need a gun that will itself tolerate sustained periods of shooting to avoid overheating and more importantly, a gun that does not kick excessively.

By all means avoid a light gun, it may be easier to carry or quicker to mount but you will definitely will pay the price in recoil.
Essentially, the lighter the gun, the heavier the kick.

A previous poster has recommended Yildiz and Baikal, everyone to their own but I wouldnt touch them as a clay gun. They are rough and ready, fine for a few shots in the field but will not bring out the best you are capable of on the clay range.

At €500 you might pick up a 2nd hand older generation lanber (great starter gun) or scan around for the older brownings or a Winchester 101.
You should be able to pick up a medallist (Browning) on your budget.

Stick another €300 on your funds and you could be in line for 2nd hand berettas. A 2nd hand gun in this price range will hold its value, invariably you will get back what you paid for it, once you dont use it as a gardening tool:)

I am a self proclaimed gun snob, this is from years of experience instructing clay shooting and appreciating the greater comfort and performance achieved in using a quality gun.
That is why I recommend you to take a little time and search around for a gun that will suit your needs.

Do not let any dealer sell you a game gun, you want a sporter and only a sporter if clay shooting is to be your main use for this gun.

Feel free to PM me if you need any further help or recommendations while searching for a gun.

Rememberto stay away from the new shiny ones on your budget, think, would you rather buy a new Lada (or even worse, a 2nd hand Lada) or a 2nd hand quality BMW. Its the same with guns.
Lada = Baikal/Yildiz BMW = Beretta/Browning?Miroke/Lanber

Good luck with the search

That's the kind of info i needed, cheers man!

In summary, for clays you need a heavier gun and better off with a quality second hand gun than a new but crappy brand. Guess that makes sense, only i haven't a clue what is a good or bad brand. I'll stick to your advice - Beretta/Browning?Miroke/Lanber. Stay away from the lighter game gun then, a very good point.

Be happy yourself with the weight and size of the gun, hmmm, there are right and left handed guns isn't there? I'm 6ft so i'd imagine something reasonably long.

Last question and i'll go off on a search. How would you judge the "milage" on a shotgun, a game gun would surely have much less on it than a well worn clay gun? Is there any defining charachteristics on a barrel that you could check, is it something that needs to be considered?

Thanks for all the help guys.

Hezz700

I had a Lanber sporter 30", cost me 900euro new. it was an excellent piece of kit. The only reason i let it go was cos my vanity required a Browning 525.:D

alan123

SMERSH wrote:

Ok, Will I need to get another 2 letters from farmers to get a subsequent licence or will the 2 I used to get the first gun still suffice?

Same will do, its all about showing your intentions i.e I want to shoot pigeons and this is where I plan on doing it, as opposed to; I just want a gun to have around the house, just in case!!

Chopperdog 2

alan123 wrote:

What do you shoot Chopper?

Alan,

I can use really any gun I want at the club and I make the most of this privilege.

Personally I own;

Beretta 687 Silver pigeon 12g sporter.

Benneli 12g M1 super 90 12 semi auto.

Krieghoff 12g o/u 12g (Competition gun)

CZ 452 Style .22 bolt action

Para Ordnance P16 1911 .40cal semi auto pistol.


They are all totally different guns for the differing tasks I ask of them and am happy at all of them.

I am currently sniffing around for a nice and possibly unusual 20g o/u for the approaching game season, I love the challenge of shooting a 20g well.

Chopperdog 2

tippbhoy wrote:

Last question and i'll go off on a search. How would you judge the "milage" on a shotgun, a game gun would surely have much less on it than a well worn clay gun? Is there any defining charachteristics on a barrel that you could check, is it something that needs to be considered?
QUOTE]


Tippbhoy,

Assess any gun physically as you would when buying a second hand car. Look at the general appearance of the gun.

Has the timber been scraped?...no big deal.
Are there dents in the timber? indicative of harsh use.

There should be absolutely no bumps dents on the barrels inside or outside.
There is no such thing as 'only a small dent' in a gun barrell, they are all potential bursting barrells.

Rust on a gun is definitely out the window, as is pitting either inside or outside of the barrels. Avoid any gun with these diseases.

The degree of fading of the blueing/blacking on the barrels will give an indicator of how much the gun was used.

Pick up a gun and sniff it. If a gun has beeen minded you will get the subtle aroma of solvents and oil as opposed to just the smell of burnt powder from a less cared for model.

Break the gun down and look if it is greased on the stub/hinge pins, same reason as for oil smell above.

Look for shiny patches on the trigger to indicate levels of use.

The most important factor in determining the life left in a gun (after barrell thickness, but that is rarely a factor these days) is the tightness of the action.

As you open the gun, the barrels should open downwards smoothly, but not loosely. The more a gun has been shot, the looser the action will become.
If you are a total beginner to this area, handle and open as many guns as you can to observe how a normally functioning gun should open.
Loose guns to be avoided at all costs.

I am sure I have missed some points, am in a mad hurry at the moment.

I am sure the other lads will pick up on anything I have left out.

Cheers, C.Dog.

SMERSH

alan123 wrote:

Same will do, its all about showing your intentions i.e I want to shoot pigeons and this is where I plan on doing it, as opposed to; I just want a gun to have around the house, just in case!!

What I meant was will I have to go back to the 2 farmers and get 2 fresh letters or will the 2 on file with the Gardaí do?

Sparks

The two on file should suffice SMERSH, since it's that land you'll be shooting over.

alan123

Sparks wrote:

The two on file should suffice SMERSH, since it's that land you'll be shooting over.

Sorry smersh, I understand. If you have a copy of the letters attach them. Ive a funny feeling "on file" might be a bit optomistic!!!!!

SMERSH

They still have my file in the station I saw it only last month with the letters attached. I dunno if that will do them.

macnab

SMERSH wrote:

They still have my file in the station I saw it only last month with the letters attached. I dunno if that will do them.

From experience I can say you should ask the local copper what they prefer. "Doctors differ, patients die" etc...