Please wear a helmet on the mountains!

iregk

Right folks rather serious post for a change. This is a plea here.

As a regular cyclist up around the dublin and wicklow mountains I've seen many a rider come off, myself included. In particular more than any other place up around Ballinascorney golf course just past Tallaght. It is a particular black spot for anyone coming down the hill due to its very steep gradient and sudden narrowing of the road.

Last night I had the misfortune to be on my way home to Blessington only to be met with two cyclists who had hit each other on the ground covered in blood. One was in an extremely bad way and thankfully I was able to offer some sort of first aid to him (was a lifeguard in my youth) but even still.

Now neither of these guys had a helmet between them. So folks if your going to cycle on the mountains can you please for your own sake and safety wear a helmet. Don't end up lying on the pavement waiting for someone to call you an ambulance. They cost only €30 in most shops and could be the difference between getting back up and waking up somewhere else!

Thanks
Graham.

Ghost Rider

Awful story, but thanks for posting it. I believe everyone should wear a helmet on the roads in and around the city too.

iregk wrote:

Right folks rather serious post for a change. This is a plea here.

As a regular cyclist up around the dublin and wicklow mountains I've seen many a rider come off, myself included. In particular more than any other place up around Ballinascorney golf course just past Tallaght. It is a particular black spot for anyone coming down the hill due to its very steep gradient and sudden narrowing of the road.

Last night I had the misfortune to be on my way home to Blessington only to be met with two cyclists who had hit each other on the ground covered in blood. One was in an extremely bad way and thankfully I was able to offer some sort of first aid to him (was a lifeguard in my youth) but even still.

Now neither of these guys had a helmet between them. So folks if your going to cycle on the mountains can you please for your own sake and safety wear a helmet. Don't end up lying on the pavement waiting for someone to call you an ambulance. They cost only €30 in most shops and could be the difference between getting back up and waking up somewhere else!

Thanks
Graham.

rubadub

Ghost Rider wrote:

I believe everyone should wear a helmet on the roads in and around the city too.

Put a lid back on that can of worms

I think everyone would recommend wearing a helmet when mountainbiking though, I would also wear knee and elbow pads, I find it odd that people do not, even people who would "never leave the house" without a helmet, and think people who do are crazy.

crashoveroid

This will be as always a big debate im cycling for a good while now and some people hate to wear helmets others dont leave home with out one. Even myself on occasion i dont wear a helmet trainning. I say people should it can make a big difference

Ghost Rider

Yeah, fair enough. It's too nice a day for that rigmarole.

Anyway, I just wanted to offer my support for the OP's sentiment.

rubadub wrote:

Put a lid back on that can of worms

Membrane

iregk wrote:

As a regular cyclist up around the dublin and wicklow mountains I've seen many a rider come off, myself included. In particular more than any other place up around Ballinascorney golf course just past Tallaght. It is a particular black spot for anyone coming down the hill due to its very steep gradient and sudden narrowing of the road.

Last night I had the misfortune to be on my way home to Blessington only to be met with two cyclists who had hit each other on the ground covered in blood. One was in an extremely bad way and thankfully I was able to offer some sort of first aid to him (was a lifeguard in my youth) but even still.

Ouch, any idea what happened and where exactly? I ride there regularly myself, but I'm having trouble imagening how you can hit another cyclist resulting in serious injury, unless a rider descending doesn't manage to hold the bend to the left and crashes into a cyclist climbing in the other direction on the opposite edge of the road (you'll have to lose it big time to do that though).

Now neither of these guys had a helmet between them.

Were they bleeding from the head? And why do you believe that a flimsy bit of styrofoam would have made any difference?

So folks if your going to cycle on the mountains can you please for your own sake and safety wear a helmet.

No thanks, I know better than to believe in the illusion of safety helmets are widely believed to offer.

Don't end up lying on the pavement waiting for someone to call you an ambulance.

Do helmets phone ambulances now? Or are you suggesting that helmets would have prevented the accident?

iregk

Nice membrane very nice. You can always guarantee someone to throw out smart comments.

I arrived straight after it happened so I didn't actually see it occour although I'm told the guy on the way down coming around to the left ran wide and hit the guy on the climb.

Yes they were both bleeding from the head.

Why do I think a flimsy bit of styrofoam could make a difference? Because millions of €'s have been spent researching this and has shown to be effective. Ok its not a 100% guarantee that you'll live but it may just be enough.

As for the last comment grow up and don't be so smart. If you don't want to wear one fine. Hopefully we wont see your name in the newspaper one day!

Membrane

iregk wrote:

Why do I think a flimsy bit of styrofoam could make a difference? Because millions of €'s have been spent researching this and has shown to be effective.

Got any references to back that up?

Did you know that there was a motion tabled at the most recent UK brain surgeon convention that called for their stance supporting cycle helmets to be revoked because the body of evidence of more recent scientific research did not support that there was any safety benefit? (in fact there is empirical data that suggests that the reverse is actually the case)

Hermy

Do me a favour Membrane and put a bicycle helmet on your head and ram your head against the nearest concrete wall and then take the helmet off and ram your head against the same wall again and report your findings to the Boards.

seamus

Membrane wrote:

Ouch, any idea what happened and where exactly? I ride there regularly myself, but I'm having trouble imagening how you can hit another cyclist resulting in serious injury, unless a rider descending doesn't manage to hold the bend to the left and crashes into a cyclist climbing in the other direction on the opposite edge of the road (you'll have to lose it big time to do that though).

They could easily have been cycling beside eachother, and one guy lost control. That road is also notoriously slippery and has a tendancy to have gravel on the corners, so one guy could very easily have wiped and struck the other guy, or landed on the ground in front of the other guy.

Were they bleeding from the head? And why do you believe that a flimsy bit of styrofoam would have made any difference?

Well, after coming off myself in the city at just over 22mph and striking my head on the ground, the damage to my helmet and the subsequent headache gave me reason to believe that the "flimsy bit of styrofoam" did actually make a difference.

I have seen plenty of helmets destroyed by severe crashes in my time, with the wearer suffering little more than sore limbs and a headache. You can't argue that a cracked skull is better than a cracked helment.

While I'm not disagreeing that there is an illusion of invincibility bestowed on some people when they don a helmet, their usefulness in high-speed or irregular crashes can't be underestimated. Attempting to claim that they're dangerous is a blatant attempt at misinformation.

Did you know that there was a motion tabled at the most recent UK brain surgeon convention that called for their stance supporting cycle helmets to be revoked because the body of evidence of more recent scientific research did not support that there was any safety benefit? (in fact there is empirical data that suggests that the reverse is actually the case)

Have you got a reference to back that up?

Lemming

Membrane, it's easy to point out the flaws in other people's solutions. So lets here your solution .... put your money were your mouth is/

Membrane

seamus wrote:

I have seen plenty of helmets destroyed by severe crashes in my time, with the wearer suffering little more than sore limbs and a headache. You can't argue that a cracked skull is better than a cracked helment.

The strength of the human skull is a huge magnitude greater than that of a cycle helmet. Ergo a cracked helmet does not mean that serious damage to the skull would have ensued had the helmet not been worn.

Have you got a reference to back that up?

As posted before: http://www.cyclehelmets.org

Note that consulting the above resource requires that you don't have any preconceived notions about the effects of cycle helmet wearing.

Membrane

Lemming wrote:

Membrane, it's easy to point out the flaws in other people's solutions. So lets here your solution .... put your money were your mouth is/

Making a real contribution to your safety on the road requires learning about many different variables, the vast majority are of the active variety, few of them of the passive variety (such as cycle helmets). I believe there is an UK publication called "Cyclecraft" that has a good reputation. Afaik this is it: http://www.amazon.co.uk/Cyclecraft-Complete-Enjoyable-Cycling-Children/dp/0117037400/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1/203-6857351-3944733?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1185876858&sr=1-1

Ghost Rider

For many people, the question is as simple as this "What do I have to lose by wearing a helmet?" If you can show how the answer "nothing" is false, then I see no need for your argument on this thread. Nobody is making a case for about mandatory helmets here.

Membrane wrote:

Making a real contribution to your safety on the road requires learning about many different variables, the vast majority are of the active variety, few of them of the passive variety (such as cycle helmets). I believe there is an UK publication called "Cyclecraft" that has a good reputation. Afaik this is it: http://www.amazon.co.uk/Cyclecraft-Complete-Enjoyable-Cycling-Children/dp/0117037400/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1/203-6857351-3944733?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1185876858&sr=1-1

ruprect

Ghost Rider wrote:

If you can show how the answer "nothing" is false, then I see no need for your argument on this thread. .

Well there was a study showing cars will overtake you allowing less room if you wear a helmet. Other find it an interference/distraction, possibly due to a poor fit, they might have to keep pushing it up or something.

I would imagine when mountain biking that the benefits it provides outweigh any distraction it causes.

Car bumpers and helmets are designed to crumple which helps absorb a lot of the force of impact, go to the butchers and get a pigs head. Now drop a brick 1 or 2 ft onto the helmet and then on the pigs head. The skull is very strong.

I would compare mountain biking to rally driving or off road buggy driving. I would wear helments in that case. After reading studies I would sooner wear a helmet in a car on the road than on a bike, as I believe it would offer more protection.

Morgan

ruprect wrote:

go to the butchers and get a pigs head. Now drop a brick 1 or 2 ft onto the helmet and then on the pigs head. The skull is very strong.

Should I put the helmet on the pigs head before trying this?

Ghost Rider

Yes, but don't forget to take your own head out of the helmet before you try and put the pig's one in.

Morgan wrote:

Should I put the helmet on the pigs head before trying this?

iregk

Or should we be using a pigs head as a helmet?

Ghost Rider

Worth a try. And maybe silk purses could be made from any leftover ears...?

iregk wrote:

Or should we be using a pigs head as a helmet?

Membrane

Ghost Rider wrote:

For many people, the question is as simple as this "What do I have to lose by wearing a helmet?"

I argue that people should (at least first) spend their money and time on something that will actually significantly improve their safety on the road (like reading said book). Then without prejudice read the case for and against helmets on cyclehelmets.org.

dalk

Helmets are good for preventing lacerations (like in the OP's example). Anything more than that is expecting a bit much from the standard that the majority of helmets are built to...

milod

Hermy made a good point earlier about headbutting a wall with and without a helmet and Membrane as usual defies any reason in regard to the helmet argument. But the simple fact is this: helmets reduce injuries! lacerations, fractures, blood loss etc may not kill you but will thoroughly ruin your day out!

The choice is with each and every cyclist but I'm getting sick of hearing arguments that simply defy pure logic with abstract statistics. I and many friends have saved ourselves the bother of a visit to A&E by wearing a helmet. Others I know have not been so lucky, including a chap I worked with in London who was hit by half a brick falling from a scaffold. And though Membrane may be right in that his skull didn't cave in, he still suffered headaches for a year after.

So doubters please try a few head v. wall experiments with and without a helmet before completely dismissing their value...

Hermy

I mentioned this somewhere else before but I'll mention again that I have no doubt that Chris Boardman does not regret the fact that he was wearing a helmet when he crashed between Enniscorthy and Cork in 1998.
If you don't want to wear a helmet that's your choice but don't try to convince me that I would be better off without one.

Ghost Rider

My sentiments too.

Hermy wrote:

If you don't want to wear a helmet that's your choice but don't try to convince me that I would be better off without one.

dalk

Hermy wrote:

If you don't want to wear a helmet that's your choice but don't try to convince me that I would be better off without one.

I doubt any reasonable person would suggest that wearing a helmet is a bad idea. I completely agree with the statement:

Milod wrote:

helmets reduce injuries!

This is off topic but what i do object to is the tendency by some to overstate helmet efficacy and the concurrent gross exaggeration of cyclings risks. (Obviously some cycling persuits are more dangerous than others).

If you believe that a cycling helmet will protect you from the sort of head injury that will kill you, i would suggest you read the standard to which the helmet complies which would suggest otherwise. And if you think that cycling is so dangerous that you are crazy to not wear a helmet, i would look at the stats that suggest that for distance traveled, cycling is only a little bit more dangerous than being a pedestrian.

And as for the anecdotal "i'd be dead if it wasn't for my helmet" arguments, it would only be evidence if we perfectly recreated your accident, minus a helmet, and you died. Any volunteers to prove their point?

Don't believe the hype!

mcgratheoin

Membrane wrote:

As posted before: http://www.cyclehelmets.org

Note that consulting the above resource requires that you don't have any preconceived notions about the effects of cycle helmet wearing.

You mean that site requires that you don't have preconceived notions that differ from the site's authors?
Wear one / don't wear one as you see fit, but that site is far from an unbiased scientific examination of the facts.

dalk

mcgratheoin wrote:

You mean that site requires that you don't have preconceived notions that differ from the site's authors?

Has it occurred to you that maybe your "preconceived notions" may not be very accurate or even correct?

mcgratheoin wrote:

Wear one / don't wear one as you see fit, but that site is far from an unbiased scientific examination of the facts.

And so because it doesn't agree with your (presumably infallible) "preconceived notions" its biased?

Personally i thought the websites quoting and linking to lots of different studies and papers is fair. Lots of information there to be able to make your own mind up with...

el tel

My motivation for wearing a helmet is not to save me from being killed in an accident but rather to prevent me from sustaining head injuries. Surely this is what the OP was getting at? I can't fault the OP for his concern for his fellow cyclists.

Stereophonic

Membrane

You'll know all about it if you ever crash! Touch wood I don't but not too sure about you.

Membrane

Stereophonic wrote:

Membrane

You'll know all about it if you ever crash!

Been there, done that (at considerable speed), head was fine (minor scrapes) despite going over the bars and landing on the asphalt, couldn't say the same about the rest of my body.

Not that a single incident such as that demonstrates anything, but many participants in this thread seem to reject scientific research.

Raam

why do they make the roadie pros wear helmets in competitions?