Feral Bees

cavedave · 31-07-2007 12:18pm #1

I have found a hive of bees living under my shed. I have no intention of disturbing them (unless a neighbor with a bad allergy pops up).
According to walkers world feral bees are very rare in Ireland is this really the case? Is there anything i can do to encourage them? I plan to plant more wild flowers anyway, should i avoid adding bird tables etc to the garden?

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1 · 31-07-2007 1:42pm

Hives of wild bees are by no means exceptional. Feral refers to domesticated animals loose in the wild. What makes you think this is not just a hive of wild bees?
As for encouraging them, they will go where there are plants to attract them. They will probably all die during the Winter. If you believe they are true feral bees you should contact your local bee-keeper society and have them rescue the hive.

r3nu4l · 31-07-2007 1:48pm

I have a wild bees nest under a summerhouse in my garden and also have a bird bath. The birds and the bees (:)) seem to get on just fine.

Nothingcompares · 31-07-2007 1:56pm

Do the bees look a bit like this:

or a bit like this:

The first picture is of a honey bee. These are the bees which are used by farmers to make honey. So they could indeed be feral bees, a queen from a "domesticated" hive could have escaped and started a new colony in your shed. The second picture is of a bumblebee (they come in a wide range of colours). They are not kept for honey making but can be kept for pollination reasons.

Just to be sure, it isn't one of these building a nest in your shed is it?

because that's a wasp, not a bee!

cavedave · 31-07-2007 2:05pm

no they are honey bees alright.

What makes you think this is not just a hive of wild bees?

I say feral because the article in Walkers world said it was unlikely there were any wild bees left in Ireland due to cross fertilisation with commercial honey bees.

If you believe they are true feral bees you should contact your local bee-keeper society and have them rescue the hive.

Really? that sounds like a WW2 prisoner of war film. "Some bees have escaped your hive and are living in my shed. I think they may be digging a tunnel under there as they are dropping soil all over the garden. Will you come and bring them back to the camp?" I presume apiarys expect the odd escaped bee and do not put out APB's to reclaim them.

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1 · 31-07-2007 3:06pm

Why ask if you're going to be facetious when you get an answer? There are certainly wild swarms in Ireland (I work in the wildlife area and have access to the data). As for the bee-keepers, they are always glad to remove a swam and add it to their hives. You suggested you had a hive of Bees not an odd escaped one.

cavedave · 31-07-2007 3:18pm

Why ask if you're going to be facetious when you get an answer?

I was not being facetious.

There are certainly wild swarms in Ireland (I work in the wildlife area and have access to the data).

ok the information I had was wrong so.

they are always glad to remove a swam and add it to their hives.

or remove my furniture? Why should i give them things on my property?

You suggested you had a hive of Bees not an odd escaped one.

a new hive would have to start with an odd escaped one.

hshortt · 31-07-2007 3:27pm

Going on the pictures alone I have had a repeated nesting attempt in old sleepers in my garden. Appears to be wasps, but my question (sorry for hijacking OP) is it normal for them to burrow their way in? They appeared to be nesting in the sleeper. I couldn't risk it and plasted over the holes they have made (couple of very interested little children).

Right or wrong?
Cheers

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1 · 31-07-2007 3:28pm

cavedave wrote:

a new hive would have to start with an odd escaped one.

A new hive can only begin if there is a Queen. an individual worker bee cannot begin a new hive.

golden · 31-07-2007 11:16pm

I thought that a new queen was produced and that is why they swarm to form a new colony. Is this not the case?

fits · 01-08-2007 11:45am

cavedave wrote:

I say feral because the article in Walkers world said it was unlikely there were any wild bees left in Ireland due to cross fertilisation with commercial honey bees.

there are also very few wild bees left as the varroa mite is wiping out the wild colonies and they can no longer survive. Honey bees have to be treated with chemicals over the winter to control the mite.
Contact your local beekeeper if you want to save the hive (they may have swarmed from his hives anyway), otherwise they will die out very soon.

cavedave · 01-08-2007 1:27pm

there are also very few wild bees left as the varroa mite is wiping out the wild colonies and they can no longer survive. Honey bees have to be treated with chemicals over the winter to control the mite.
Contact your local beekeeper if you want to save the hive (they may have swarmed from his hives anyway), otherwise they will die out very soon.

Thank you for the info. I will try figure out who the local beekeeper is. The hive is pretty close to the ground so i think the ground frost might kill them anyway.

I distrust the belief that the mite will kill all colonies of feral bees. I do not know the mites virulence but it would seem not in any organisms evolutionary interests to be so deadly as to completely wipe out its host.

fits · 01-08-2007 2:06pm

cavedave wrote:

I distrust the belief that the mite will kill all colonies of feral bees. I do not know the mites virulence but it would seem not in any organisms evolutionary interests to be so deadly as to completely wipe out its host.

Its a secondary effect, as well as weakening the bees, it spreads disease..

The mite has only been introduced to Ireland in the last ten years. And it has wiped out most of the wild bee population already. (Bumble bees arent affected)

http://www.teagasc.ie/oakpark/bru/bru-varroasis.htm

cavedave · 01-08-2007 3:08pm

And it has wiped out most of the wild bee population already.

I do not doubt this. I just believe (and it is a belief i have no proof) that diseases/parasites on their own do not kill off entire species. Take the example of dutch elm disease and myxamatosis the diseases killed off over 90% of the population initially and then a combination of less virulent forms of the disease/parasite and increased immunity in the host reduced deaths after that.

If the bee population was in trouble anyway (due to loss of habitat or use of harmful chemicals say) then extinction would be a definite possibility, and this could be the case with bees in Ireland.

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1 · 02-08-2007 11:27am

fits wrote:

And it has wiped out most of the wild bee population already. (Bumble bees arent affected)

Fits,
You are exaggerating a bit there. The mite is a problem but it has certainly not wiped out most of the wild bee population. I wouldn't go in to my background in this but I can tell you that you are most certainly wrong! Wild honey bees are mildly affected at present and while Bumble Bees show a greater degree of infestation, the mite is not the reason for their drop in numbers in recent years.

fits · 02-08-2007 11:46am

Abdullah Limited Newspaperman wrote:

Fits,
You are exaggerating a bit there. The mite is a problem but it has certainly not wiped out most of the wild bee population. I wouldn't go in to my background in this but I can tell you that you are most certainly wrong!

I could be wrong of course, I'm only going on what I hear at home... And I was told at a course last year that the possibility of taking in wild swarms is increasingly rare. I havent really seen many in a long time.
Would be interested to know your background, by pm if you wish.

magicbastarder · 12-08-2007 6:02pm

cavedave wrote:

I do not know the mites virulence but it would seem not in any organisms evolutionary interests to be so deadly as to completely wipe out its host.

that's only relevant if the mite is native. the mite and our bees possibly did not evolve side by side.
there's plenty of examples of introduced species wiping out other species.

cavedave · 13-08-2007 12:00pm

that's only relevant if the mite is native. the mite and our bees possibly did not evolve side by side.
there's plenty of examples of introduced species wiping out other species.

I do not know enough about the issue so i will shut up about it now*. I know many examples of introduced species competing in the same niche as existing species and killing them off. There are also loads of cases of new species feeding on the initial species (rats and the dodo etc). Do you have any examples of a new purely parasitic organism that led to the extinction of a species?

*edit this paper shows how it is possible for a parasite to kill off a species http://www.ese.u-psud.fr/epc/conservation/PDFs/Thresholds.pdf particularly if the species is already in trouble.

Feral Bees

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