Buying from Dell ?...never again !

dahamsta

The problem with Dell - and I really do believe it's a problem - is that their sales people are as bad as their support people. Getting through on the phone is difficult, and getting through to the person is often harder as they don't have a proper grasp of english. Ask for anything that doesn't use an evalue code and you might as well be shouting up a chimney at santa. You can't run a business like that. It doesn't work. You might get away with crappy support staff - although you shouldn't - but crappy sales staff? That's suicide. It can't last. It's just not a sound strategy.

The amount of people that have switched to HP is telling. HP doesn't even have a decent website, and getting in touch with them is almost as hard. But people are so pissed off with Dell at this stage, they'd rather buy there. That just shows the level of disdain this particular market has for customers.

adam

antoinolachtnai

But it does work. These people have beaten the living crap out of all the small PC manufacturers. They put Gateway out of business in Europe.

Ordering on the web is where it's at anyway.

dahamsta

Worked. Gateway was what, 6-8 years ago? Now people are moving to HP and even some niche providers.

As I said in my post, it can't last. Obviously this refers to the future, not the past or the present.

adam

jaggeh

they do come with windows disks

dahamsta

They don't come with Windows disks, they come with restore disks if you pay for them. I've explained the difference already, I'm not going to do it again.

Oafley Jones

jaggeh wrote:

they do come with windows disks

Only a very small percentage of Dells machines come supplied with discs. You have to pay a small bit extra if you want them.

formatman

dahamsta wrote:

They don't come with Windows disks, they come with restore disks if you pay for them. I've explained the difference already, I'm not going to do it again.

they do come with Windows disks , and it is the full version of XP or Vista , it is not a restore disc ( they were charging a while ago but seems to send them out now ( with vista machine anyhow) ( they provide restore partitions hidden on the hard drive ) the difference is that the disc has a pre registration built into it so doesn't require registration once installed on the appropriate DELL machine

What differences did you notice out of curiosity ? ,

heyjude

thelastangryman wrote:

To remove Norton use the Norton removal Tool Here(use the top file)

Than follow the instructions here

Its really easy and quick to do. Whenever I go to repair computers I bring this along because 80 percent of the problems are caused by Norton.

Thanks for that.

dahamsta

I've bought several new Dells in the past year or two, for myself and for clients, and they didn't come with Windows disks, and no option was available to receive a Windows disk. They came with Dell-branded system restore disks, on request. I haven't received a Windows disk with a Dell machine in several years. I find it very strange that I haven't received them for three or more machines and, supposedly, everyone else has.

heyjude

thelastangryman wrote:

To remove Norton use the Norton removal Tool Here(use the top file)

Than follow the instructions here

Its really easy and quick to do. Whenever I go to repair computers I bring this along because 80 percent of the problems are caused by Norton.

Oh the irony, when you go to the second link quoted for how to remove Norton, there is a GoogleAd at the top of the page for Norton Internet Security !!!! :rolleyes:

Mezcita

I work in Sales in Dell Cherrywood. I deal with the irish market. I am from Ireland. And yes I speak english perfectly.

I love hearing this stuff. People call into Dell all the time looking for a good price on a system. This is exactly what they get. Then when something goes wrong with the system they bought for 399 euro, they get annoyed with the after sales support. What exactly do they expect? Michael Dell himself to arrive the next day with a brand spanking new system for them? Grow up.

If you buy a home system with a crappy warranty, don't get annoyed when the after sales suypport isn't up to your standards. why didn't you buy a better warranty? Why didn't you buy a better system for that fact? Look at the guy who bought the XPS - he had a great experience. That's coz there's a better support line for those systems. Yes they are more expensive, but you get what you pay for. You could also have bought an optiplex if you don't like speaking to indian tech support - The tech support line for them is in Scotland.

Ah yes the indian issue. Personally I think the employees in the Indian call centres do a great job. They do the best they can in what is a challenging environment for them. How would you find trying to sell a computer to someone in India if Indian is not your first language? Also for the person above who says that his friend is now racist after talking to Dell India, I suggest then that this person isn't really worth knowing in the first place. The amount of similarly bigotted people I have talked to on the phone in my time in Dell would make anyone stop and think about what type of abuse someone with an Indian accent might go through on a daily basis. But if you do insist that it is your right not to have to deal with indian reps, there are 1500 people working in dell in Cherrywood who could help you buy or support your system. If you happen to get through to me though, I will take a lot of pleasure out of putting your racist ass on hold while I go to home for the evening.

mickoneill30

Mezcita wrote:

This is exactly what they get. Then when something goes wrong with the system they bought for 399 euro, they get annoyed with the after sales support.

Why don't Dell unbundle the support. I'd pay more for better support and so would a lot of corporates. I'd expect a lot of other people would too. Say average machine with crappy support for €399. Or average machine with good support for €499. You take a gamble getting the cheaper option but at least you can't whinge when it's crap.

Mezcita wrote:

If you buy a home system with a crappy warranty, don't get annoyed when the after sales suypport isn't up to your standards. why didn't you buy a better warranty?

If you buy a better warranty are you transferred to a different tech support line?

Why didn't you buy a better system for that fact? Look at the guy who bought the XPS - he had a great experience. That's coz there's a better support line for those systems. Yes they are more expensive, but you get what you pay for. You could also have bought an optiplex if you don't like speaking to indian tech support - The tech support line for them is in Scotland.

And how is the average Joe Soap buying Dell machines supposed to know this?

Ah yes the indian issue. Personally I think the employees in the Indian call centres do a great job. They do the best they can in what is a challenging environment for them.

I agree. As a customer though, I don't care if it's challenging for the support guys. That's Dells problem. I just want my problem fixed. It doesn't help the customer if his / her experience is made more difficult through an already frustrating situation. The customer will remember the experience and vote with their feet the next time they're buying. We did in our company (reasonable server room of 100 HP servers, standard 3 year life on them so that was 100 new servers (at least) every 3 years, moved to another supplier that could guarantee better support).

The amount of similarly bigotted people I have talked to on the phone in my time in Dell would make anyone stop and think about what type of abuse someone with an Indian accent might go through on a daily basis.

I actually agree with you there. The line I used to work on took Irish & English calls. We all used to groan when we saw the next call was an Irish customer. Generally the English were way more polite. The Irish guys were more likely to jump up and down and think that screaming down the phone would get better service. (I'm Irish too, from Dublin).
By the way if you're a customer and you shout or "demand your rights" from a tech rep, even though you've no clue what your rights actually are , prepare for lots of hold music and a crappy service.

dahamsta

I bought a €3500 Dimension 9200 with a 3 year warranty, and I can tell you here and now I don't get any special treatment. Because Dell support is sh*t, period. There's no levels, there's just sh*t, across the board.

adam

jay80

Mezcita wrote:

I love hearing this stuff. People call into Dell all the time looking for a good price on a system. This is exactly what they get. Then when something goes wrong with the system they bought for 399 euro, they get annoyed with the after sales support. What exactly do they expect? Michael Dell himself to arrive the next day with a brand spanking new system for them? Grow up.

If people buy a computer (regardless of value), then they expect it to work. It may not be a powerful machine, and possibly slow as hell but it should work as expected.

Mezcita wrote:

Ah yes the indian issue. Personally I think the employees in the Indian call centres do a great job. They do the best they can in what is a challenging environment for them. How would you find trying to sell a computer to someone in India if Indian is not your first language?
...
If you happen to get through to me though, I will take a lot of pleasure out of putting your racist ass on hold while I go to home for the evening.

If my last call to Dell had been recorded and put on the net it would be an instant comedy hit - seriously. I didn't have any problems as such, but wanted to put in more RAM and had no clue what to look for or do. Thick Irish accent and thick Indian accent caused the worst breakdown in communication I've come across (no irateness - just comedy gold, I did get sorted eventually). However I would not accept speaking to an Indian helpdesk guy after that incident if I did have a problem that needed fixing. Nothing racist about that and if your attitude is anything to go by, I think I'll go elsewhere for my next pc.

Oryx

They do the best they can in what is a challenging environment for them. How would you find trying to sell a computer to someone in India if Indian is not your first language?

So why are Dell doing it in reverse?

Dell have support on the cheap. People who dont like it will vote with their feet and buy elsewhere.

MOH

Mezcita wrote:

I work in Sales in Dell Cherrywood. I deal with the irish market. I am from Ireland. And yes I speak english perfectly.

I love hearing this stuff. People call into Dell all the time looking for a good price on a system. This is exactly what they get. Then when something goes wrong with the system they bought for 399 euro, they get annoyed with the after sales support. What exactly do they expect? Michael Dell himself to arrive the next day with a brand spanking new system for them? Grow up.

Eh, no, they expect a reasonable level of support, given that they expected the system they bought for 399 euro to work in the first place without any need for support.

You could also have bought an optiplex if you don't like speaking to indian tech support - The tech support line for them is in Scotland.

Must have missed the bit on the website where that's highlighted.

Ah yes the indian issue. Personally I think the employees in the Indian call centres do a great job. They do the best they can in what is a challenging environment for them. How would you find trying to sell a computer to someone in India if Indian is not your first language?

What are you smoking? No one's talking about Indians trying to sell computers in Ireland. They're talking about buying computers in Ireland from a company based in Ireland, trying to get support for them when they don't work, and getting farmed out to a call centre in India. I'm sure it is a challenging environment, but it's Dell who are creating the situation, and since the only company representative the customer can speak to is the poor schmuck on the end of the phone, it's no wonder they have to bear the brunt of the frustration.

But if you do insist that it is your right not to have to deal with indian reps, there are 1500 people working in dell in Cherrywood who could help you buy or support your system.

Care to publish a number that people can use to get through to them?

If you happen to get through to me though, I will take a lot of pleasure out of putting your racist ass on hold while I go to home for the evening.

And with that attitude, you've finally convinced me never to buy a Dell again, personally or professionally.

oceanclub

To be fair, I've had good experiences with Indian call centre staff, and bad experiences with Irish ones. It was definitely an Irish call centre person who gave me muppet-level advice about an Inspiron 9300 fault, which I documented here on Dell's own blog:

http://direct2dell.com/one2one/archive/2006/08/22/2131.aspx

(skip down to "Jeff Jarvis suggested I share my own Dell horror story on this thread. ")

If the woman I talked to was a typical "Dell Technician" (her own description), they're in trouble. Dell's share price has been plummeting, while HP's is soaring. Dell might want to have a think about where things are going wrong.

The ironic thing of course is that their laptops are fairly decent.

P.

Mezcita

Mick. Answers to your questions:

1. Dell do unbundle the support. The 399 genereally comes with either a 90 day collect and return, or a 1 year depending on the system. You can upgrade this to a next business day respons at point of sale if you wish. If you prefer a better level of support than the home support (based in india) that you get with the home range, you can buy an optiplex system that is supported from scotland.

2. As above, a better support line is available on the optiplex range -just make sure it includes the line"business support" in the spec list.

3. Average Joe Soap is supposed to be informed by the sales rep. If they are not, this is the fault of the rep him or herself.




Dahamsta: If you spent 3500 on a Dimension 9200, to be honest you would have been better spending the money on either an XPS, or Precision range. They are more powerful, have more options, and have better support. I would be very surprised if you were not advised this at point of sale. Reps work on commision, and if they thought you would have bought one of these systems, believe me, they would have tried to sell it to you.



For the record, those of you who don't want to speak to an indian sales rep can ring 01 2044014 and ask specifically to be put through to someone in Irish sales in Cherrywood.


Jay80 - define reasonable level of support. For 399 euro I think people get exactly what they pay for. If you get a system this cheap and have to go to tech support and stay on the phone for an hour, so what. There may be some language problems, and it might be a bit of hassle, but your problem WILL get fixed, even if you have to go to the sales rep's manager. Anyways, you could have bought a better warranty. Believe me all sales reps on the phone will try to sell you a warranty but 9 out of 10 people don't bother. When things go wrong, that's when they start to rant about Dell. This is just another example of peoples inflated expectations. The fact that you can now buy systems at prices like this is completley down to companies like Dell, who started the whole budget pc thing. If this had not happened you would still be buying systems for 1K from HP, and no doubt on some other website giving out about their price. The fact is that Dell actually lose a lot of money selling budget systems - it's a loss leader. They sell them at these prices so they can get calls into the business and hopefully get the customer interested in their more profitable and better system range. The upside for the public is that nearly everyone can afford some sort of system. I just hope you understand that it is not financially possible to have an Irish support centre, manned by Irish reps, being paid Irish salaries to support systems that Dell loses money on anyways.


Lastly:Jay80 and MOH : My last comment in my post above was directed specifically at someone who had admitted to having racist views. Since you're getting so defensive about it, I can only assume you either didn't read my post properly, or you share these views. If the latter is the case, then I have this to say: You say you would never buy from Dell Personally or professionally. That's fine coz I would never sell you anything with that type of attitude.

Apologies to anyone else reading this post - I do not want you to think Dell takes a nonchalant attitude towards customers -we don't. Only racist ones.

dahamsta

At least 1k of that was on a large monitor. You could possibly spend that much on a system alone. Surely you should know that if you work for Dell?

I didn't talk to a rep, simply because the last time I tried to buy a server from Dell, I was shunted from India to Ireland, back to India and back to Ireland again, and not one of the four people I talked to had a bull's notion what they were doing. I'll never buy anything of value from Dell again. Pizza boxes on special offer is all I'm interested in now.

If you really do work for Dell, you shouldn't take pride in it. It's a sh*t company that places no value in either it's customers or it's employees. They give as much of a sh*t about you as they do about us.

adam

Mezcita

dahamsta wrote:

At least 1k of that was on a large monitor. You could possibly spend that much on a system alone. Surely you should know that if you work for Dell?

Sorry whats your point?

BTW did you mean to say "You couldN'T possibly spend that much on a system alone?" If so, are you kidding?

dahamsta wrote:

I didn't talk to a rep, simply because the last time I tried to buy a server from Dell, I was shunted from India to Ireland, back to India and back to Ireland again, and not one of the four people I talked to had a bull's notion what they were doing. I'll never buy anything of value from Dell again. Pizza boxes on special offer is all I'm interested in now.

Right so you spent 3500 euro on a asystem, didn't get any advice on it, and now you're upset?

dahamsta wrote:

If you really do work for Dell, you shouldn't take pride in it. It's a sh*t company that places no value in either it's customers or it's employees. They give as much of a sh*t about you as they do about us.

Ok. That's why I am sitting at home talking to you on a friday afternoon because Dell were nice enough to give everyone in my dept a day off for doing a good job this quarter. They are also consistently voted in the Top 5 companies to work for in Ireland by the Irish Times. We also as reps are paid based on how well we score in our customer satisfaction surveys filled out by you the customer. That means that anyone I sell a system to has a direct effect on my paycheck. Why would Dell encourage me to give a good after sales service if they didn't give a sh*t about their customers?

Cabaal

Mezcita wrote:

They are also consistently voted in the Top 5 companies to work for in Ireland by the Irish Times.

You sure about this?
http://www.greatplacetowork.ie/best/list-ie.htm

Rank Companies
Overall Winner
1 Airtricity

Abbott Laboratories Ireland Ltd
Accenture
AOL Europe Operations Ltd.
AXA Insurance Ltd.
BDO Simpson Xavier
Brightwater
BUPA Ireland

I see AOL there but I don't see Dell, infact I've tried all the way back to 2005 and Dell is just not even listed

Must be a different list I guess.....

[EDIT] Sorry there listed 45th in 2003

dahamsta

Mezcita wrote:

BTW did you mean to say "You couldN'T possibly spend that much on a system alone?" If so, are you kidding?

Who do you know kits out a Dimension 9200 with 3.5k's worth of kit?

Right so you spent 3500 euro on a asystem, didn't get any advice on it, and now you're upset?

I didn't want or ask for advice, and I'm not upset. I'm simply saying that Dell support is sh*t, and Dell is a sh*t company. That's my opinion, and I'm obviously not the only one here with it. Would you like me to spell out the words individually; would that help you get a grasp on the notion?

If you're an example of the wonderful, polite face of Dell, it's no f*cking wonder people are buying HP these days. Buy Dell, We've Got Attitude. I hope your marketing department doesn't see your posts, you can be damned sure you'd be out on your ear if they caught you.

adam

UrbanFox

Mezcita,

What the customer expects is what the contractual terms promise as distinct from a post contractual unilateral reinterpretation.

jaggeh

i got my new gfx card delivered to my workplace and the delivery guy called me to let me know he was enroute.

if you dont want to talk to india then when you get through ask to be put through to the irish call centre.

i got through to india yesterday and with about 60 seconds i was speaking to someone in ireland. its not that hard.

I fully expect the indian call centre to be able to sort my query but i prefered to speak to someone local.

then again i paid for an xps and NBD warranty, I GOT WHAT I PAID FOR.

daveokeeffe

I ordered a Dell PC on the 29th of June, and it sat in Pre-Production for over two weeks. The initial delivery date was the 17th of July, but on the friday before that I was told it was delayed till the 9th of August! I called the sales people (Indian, big woop) and he told me that it was delayed because of a worldwide glass shortage. I don't know if this was BS, but it certainly sounded like it. I took the opportunity to cancel the order in an effort to get some more money off my deal, and it worked. Mr Indian Sales dude called back the next day, and we spent the day nattering out a new deal. I ended up getting the exact same system for 100 euro less. Basic specs are:

Dimension 9200 Intel Viiv Technology Core 2 Duo E6600 (2.40Ghz, 1066Mhz FSB)
English Windows Vista Ultimate
Video Card 256MB NVIDIA GeForce 8600 GTS
Hard Drive 750GB Serial ATA non Raid (7200 Rpm)
UK/Irish Keyboard Dell Enhanced Multimedia USB (QWERTY) Black
FP/BL 2007WFP UK/Irish - Ultrasharp 20'' Wide Flat Panel (TCO99) DVI-D Black Height Adjustable
Memory Dual-Channel 4096MB [4x1024] 667MHz DDR2
Audio Integrated HDA 7.1 Dolby Digital capability
Base Warranty - 1 Year Collect & Return
Dell Support 3.4 (Vista)
English McAfee 8.0 Security Centre 30 Day Trial Version (No Recovery CD)
Mouse Dell Optical (not wireless) USB (2 buttons scroll) Black
Multimedia Bar AS501 Black, for use with Ultrasharp Flat Panel (10W)
ROXIO Software for Vista - Creator / MYDVD 9.0
DVD+/-RW (Read/Write) 16x and CD-RW (Read/Write)/DVD-ROM (Reader) 48x

All for the good price of ~€1550

I was happy enough with the sales service, and while the language barrier proved problematic at times, it wasn't the end of the world. One thing I didn't like, was that he lied to me. Twice. The most notable lie was about the widescreen ultrasharp monitor. He had told me that this monitor was what delayed my last order, but I wasn't willing switch to a non widescreen version. In response to this he said:

'Wide screen monitors will stretch the picture, are you sure you want that?'

I couldn't believe it. I got him to repeat it a few times just so I could be sure, and yes, he tried to tell me that a widescreen monitor would stretch the picture as an incorrect aspect ratio'd tv would.

This was ok for me cause I knew it wasn't the case, but not everyone would know that, and I'm sure he's done that kind of thing before.

My current delivery date is 13th August, and the pc is still in pre-production. I just hope it arrives before that date, I been waitin too long...

Mezcita: Is it possible to get Installation disks for the OS included in the order? I've shelled out extra monies for the Vista Ultimate, and I'd love to get the actual install disks for it.

here.from.day.1

That was a lot of information to take in in 3 pages, anyway..

First off I am in no way a Dell fanboy or such like, just a generally satisfied consumer that feels Dell are being a little hard done by here.

Regarding the OS disks, XPS systems all come with OEM Version disks of the OS as standard as well as a recovery partition. Others come with a recovery partition and will enclose the disks for a fee of around 10e.

Support wise XPS systems come with a 24/7 technical support line with centres based in places such as America, Ireland, Scotland and Finland. One glance at the XPS product page on the website will tell you this, although understandably not everybody would notice this. Being a person who researchs any planned large purchase I find it funny that some people dont and expect no consequences. Yes XPS can be expensive but the outlet site is a haven in this respect and theres no phone dealing.

That said the Indian support lines are by no means unusable even if the accent can be very hard to understand. I have had to deal with them occasionally over the years with different machines, mainly laptops, and if you are patient and polite within reason, sorting whatever issue you have is not a problem and will be resolved quite quickly. If the call is not going as well as you would like, escalating to a supervisor usually helps and even if it doesnt just there is the unresolved cases section. Dell usually offer a fair compensation for any hassle suffered. If you feel you are being lied to or messed around just hang up and try again. No you shouldnt have to resort to this but lightning rarely strikes twice. Usually patience pays off.

Overall Dell has quite a good reputation for customer service. What it comes down to here is the fact that as with any manufacturer it is realistically unavoidable that a certain number of customers are going to be left feeling dissatisfied, but for every one unhappy person you can be sure there are many many more that have no issues and predicably enough it is only going to be the unhappy few that will come on and rant (I dont deny them their right to.)

dahamsta

It was the person that claims they work for Dell started talking about XPS systems, not the OP. The company is bound to provide better support to someone spending that kind of money. (Although my experience is that anything below XPS - even if it is a couple of grand - gets the same useless crap as everyone else.)

I have an addendum actually: my business partner bought 8x 30" widescreen panels last week for a data centre we're building in Cork, and Dell gave him a discount, but wouldn't match their usual special offer pricing. Twelve thousand euros worth of kit, and they wouldn't budge. That was the straw that broke the camel's back.

adam

PeakOutput

to the dell employee waffling on about warranties.......you are legally entitled to a repair/replacement/refund if something goes wrong regardless of what warranty you pick or even if you dont take out a warranty at all so saying that if you want good support buy the better package is bollox because you legally have to provide the support anyway

here.from.day.1

PeakOutput wrote:

to the dell employee waffling on about warranties.......you are legally entitled to a repair/replacement/refund if something goes wrong regardless of what warranty you pick or even if you dont take out a warranty at all so saying that if you want good support buy the better package is bollox because you legally have to provide the support anyway

They do. The way you guys are going on you make them out to be some shady street corner dealers. Of course they provide a warranty. Its one year collect and return as standard. The reason they provide different warranty types and lengths is for different kinds of people. Ie. On site next business day for people using the machine in harsher circumstances and absolutely need to have the machine repaired asap. If Dell started including top end warranties with their machines as standard many more people would be complaining due to the rise in price and the fact that a huge majority of Dell customers (mainly home users) never have to call on the warranty at all.

chrislad

Not true. My sister was told she only had a 3 month warranty and they were trying to charge her 300euro to get the laptop fixed. I quoted EU law of 2 years warranty and they fixed it for free after that.