Going for first flying lesson with NFC, any experience/advice?

Sn@kebite

Hi i'm getting my first lesson with National Flight Centre @ Weston hopefully this month.
Any experience with them? Anything i should know, like will i be asked any questions etc..
People tell me it'll be just a fun ride and fun day-out, however i kind of want it to be really professional an challenging, not just a kiddy day out.:D

Feedback appreciated!

carveone

My lessons were with pilots I knew so my experience was probably quite different (I was a skydiver too so the pilot figured he could do anything he wanted. We did some scary things!). As you can imagine however, the pilot will try and figure out what your level of interest is, your general intelligence, how likely you are to try and kill him etc.

Having some sort of an idea what altimeters, climb rate indicators, tilt and yaw indicator, artifical horizon etc are saves some time and the instructor might take a different slant with you once he realises you're not there for a joyride.

Knowing what the horizon is supposed to look like in straight and level flight is nice but you'd need a simulator for that. One of my friends (another skydiver) had a lot of MS flight sim time and landed the plane in his first hour. Not gonna happen!

It feels a little like the first time you drove a car. Remember the grip-o-death on the wheel? Oversteering and overcompensating all over the gaff? That'll be the first 4-5 hours... Good luck and relaaaax!

Sn@kebite

Thanks carveone!

I've done lots of sim with X-Plane and MS Flight-Sim 98 but X-Plane is the best, it was that that got me into the planes in the first place.
As i have no joystick, I find maual landings in X-Plane alot easier than auto (which is probably normal anyway). However hat's in the big planes like Boing 737-777 and various supertankers like the beluga. so i seem pretty familiar with the indicators, although I might give the Simulator of the Cessna-185 a try i think that's the only light-plane i have for that.

Thanks again!

Fionn101

Your first lesson will be fun and will probably entail 'Effects of Controls'

My first time out with them the instructor did the startup and got us into the air , then we did simple turns and banks , bit of a sightseeing lesson but it's the best fun.

Enjoy

pclancy

When you're banking do you actually need much rudder to turn properly? Is it hard coordinate your hands and feet? Ive seen the turn and slip indicator in planes but always wondered how hard it was? Probably just like riding a bike after a while is it?

Must get flying lessons...

cp251

You don't need much rudder in light aircraft. In fact in lighter aircraft like the Cessna 150 you can practically ignore it until you get more proficient. Although in a 172, you need quite a lot of rudder during take off but it's not critical if you forget like....ahem, I do occasionally. Gliders need a lot of rudder and older aircraft do as well for various reasons.

Sn@kebite, what I will say to is do not try to fly the 150 using the instruments no matter how time you spent on a simulator practising. Do literally what the instructor says and you'll be fine. You will find that actually handling an aircraft is quite different to FS. Treat the controls gently, it's not a Lancaster, just use one hand and a light touch.
It's all about attitude flying. It's a combination of power settings and the position of the nose on the horizon that decides whether you are climbing descending or straight and level. In fact one of techniques practised at an advanced stage is to cover the airspeed indicator, altimeter and artificial horizon and try to land the aeroplane using only power settings and the position of the nose on the horizon. Don't worry he or she won't ask you to do that this time!:eek:

If you are genuinely interested in learning to fly, let the instructor know. Mostly they fly with people who just want a thrill or an experience. They do dozens of those. You may get more out of him or her that way.

But basically do what he or she says and no more. Don't try and show off your 'knowledge', you'll just sound like an idiot. Above all enjoy it, take time to look out the window and enjoy the view. You won't be judged on this flight. Enjoy!

pclancy

Is it used much in larger jets cp? I know obviously for crabbing or crosswind landings but just in normal turns when you're doing the flying, not the ap?

Snakebite did you have the lesson yet? gonna book my first one there very soon, it was a good month for commission

jmayo

cp251 wrote:

You don't need much rudder in light aircraft. In fact in lighter aircraft like the Cessna 150 you can practically ignore it until you get more proficient. Although in a 172, you need quite a lot of rudder during take off but it's not critical if you forget like....ahem, I do occasionally. Gliders need a lot of rudder and older aircraft do as well for various reasons.

In fact one of techniques practised at an advanced stage is to cover the airspeed indicator, altimeter and artificial horizon and try to land the aeroplane using only power settings and the position of the nose on the horizon.

The rudder pedals are handy on the ground for steering
Heavy engine aircarft need rudder to conteract torque of engine and also taildraggers can require more rudder usually on take off.

Covering instruments technique is done in gliders so that people can get feel for judging height above actual ground level, to enable people do off arifeidl field landings.
Haven't seen it thought in powered aircraft.
If anything you are thought to use your instruments as with having the hood on, not ignore them particularly the ASI.

Davidth88

I learnt to fly on a PA28 , the school had two .

Both of these you had to use some rudder during takeoff to counteract the touque as Jmayo said. However one of them you needed rudder on that almost all the time , it was a real old dog of an aircraft, great fun if you were flyingon instruments because you could find yourself drifting to the right . Of course the Chief Instructor used to nick the good one all the time so I always seemed to end up with the old one.

Interestingly recently I found a photo of the aircraft on airliners.net. ( G-BNXT )

I also ' flew ' an A10 simulator one time , I was told to keep my feet of the rudders because ' the computer ' takes care of that.

I enjoyed my first lesson , still remember it .

jmayo

Davidth88 wrote:

I learnt to fly on a PA28 , the school had two .

Both of these you had to use some rudder during takeoff to counteract the touque as Jmayo said. However one of them you needed rudder on that almost all the time , it was a real old dog of an aircraft, great fun if you were flyingon instruments because you could find yourself drifting to the right . Of course the Chief Instructor used to nick the good one all the time so I always seemed to end up with the old one.

Yeah recently flew two C172s, one C172 was a nice new shiny thing that flew beautifully. The other was a fair bit older and I came back with a dead right leg after spending 3.5 hours flying with my right foot planted nearly to the floor. It's marvelleous how parts of your body get uncomfortable after sustained period of being in fixed position.

Heard funny story before of some guy in his newly acquired AN-2 weaving all over the runway at big Irish airport while he tried to get to grips with the monster engine up front.

Oh and speaking of PA28, I hate the one door and the flap lever, I kept using it like handbrake until got used to it.

Davidth88

Oh and speaking of PA28, I hate the one door and the flap lever, I kept using it like handbrake until got used to it.

Yes it's real clunky isn't it !

I did a few lessons in the C152 , then climbed back into the PA28 , got my wrist slapped for using carb heat on approach as per C152 , should have been using my check list I suppose

Oh my got , AN2 ..... the largest single engined aircraft ever built eh ! Where is that based then ?

jmayo

Davidth88 wrote:

Yes it's real clunky isn't it !

I did a few lessons in the C152 , then climbed back into the PA28 , got my wrist slapped for using carb heat on approach as per C152 , should have been using my check list I suppose

Oh my got , AN2 ..... the largest single engined aircraft ever built eh ! Where is that based then ?

Wouldn't say An-2 is the largest ever build since late WWII fighters have massive engines but it is the largest you can fly on SEP PPL.
There was one in Cork, as well as one that had been flipped in storm.
Not sure if they are still there?

I have always used carb heat even on PA28 if memory serves me right?
There are also a dog in hot climate since you can't open door and let prop wash cool the cockpit, which is nice to do in Cessnas.

BTW you should not be looking at check list on approach, dump it after downwind, you should be looking out the window with occassional glances inside to check ASI etc.

Davidth88

Point taken

I wasn't using my check list , I had learnt it off by heart/ used a few nemonics ( BUMPF anyone ? ) ... I will now hunt it out to see if carb heat is on there . I fully remember the incident , I didn't like the instructor involved.

Yes of course watching out of the window is the best thing to be doing

Yes in the heat you used to sweat like a pig , esp waiting for take off/ doing circuits. The aforementioned ' nicer ' aircraft had a/c but of course you couldn't use it on approach/landing/takeoff because it sucked power

Ok, just checked the AN2 is the largest single engined BIPLANE , so I was slightly wrong .... I suppose it would compare with an Anson or something in WW2

jmayo

Davidth88 wrote:

Point taken

I wasn't using my check list , I had learnt it off by heart/ used a few nemonics ( BUMPF anyone ? ) ... I will now hunt it out to see if carb heat is on there . I fully remember the incident , I didn't like the instructor involved.

Yes of course watching out of the window is the best thing to be doing

Yes in the heat you used to sweat like a pig , esp waiting for take off/ doing circuits. The aforementioned ' nicer ' aircraft had a/c but of course you couldn't use it on approach/landing/takeoff because it sucked power

Ok, just checked the AN2 is the largest single engined BIPLANE , so I was slightly wrong .... I suppose it would compare with an Anson or something in WW2

Ah so did you fly in Florida by any chance?
I hated getting into a Pa28, used to even burn my arm with the ash trays and the like, just from being parked up in the sun.

Then sweat flowing off you while you waited to go, hoping whoever in front of up would get on with their checks and shift their ass.
I had trick for cross countries, bring a couple of t-shirts so can change when get to other airport/airfield.
At least that way you don't walk into the FBO or restuarant soaked in sweat and looking like complete tramp. And if you really want bring deoudourant spray as well.

Only air conditioning I ever had was the open door or the air vents.
You must have been at rich flight school
Then you had fun if you were trapped in aricraft when thunderstorm hit, because you discovered where the leaks were.

Oh and alsoleanrt the hardway that having doors off heli doesn't help especially when you are hovering, it just means you are getting one arm burnt so then you look complete eejit with one side burntand other pale.

Once flew with plastic wrap in place of glass in door.
It really gave you another perspective

cp251

pclancy wrote:

Is it used much in larger jets cp? I know obviously for crabbing or crosswind landings but just in normal turns when you're doing the flying, not the ap?

Snakebite did you have the lesson yet? gonna book my first one there very soon, it was a good month for commission

Not much, as davidthe88th say he was told to keep his feet off the rudders when he tried....I presume he meant an A310 simulator, (not the A10, now that would be fun!) In fact it was excessive use of the rudder that brought down that A300 in Queens, New York in 2001. Use of the rudder is a bit of a lost art. Modern aircraft require much less rudder than older aircraft. Indeed in some of the older biplanes using the ailerons alone would simply induce a turn opposite to that intended because the drag on the aileron would exceed any lift generated.

Davidth88

Guys
It wasn't a typo.

It was an A10 ( as in tankbuster ) simulator. I visited a ANG ( Air National Guard ) station in the midwest back in late eighties.

It was a scream to be honest , we started ' midflight ' and I found the damn thing just wouldn't fly , as in I kept losing height , could't handle the thing at all.

After about 5 mins the operator popped the lid , said , ' this will make it easier ' and pressed a few buttons that ' jettisoned all the external ordinance'
it turned out the simulator had been set up with the everything packed on the wings.

Then it flew like a dream !

CP , if North Watford counts as Florida ... no I learnt at Leavesden before it became a film set , in those days it was operated by Rolls Royce

Gave me new found respect for the guys who fly real missions.

I would LOVE LOVE LOVE to fly an airliner simulator, just to see if I could do it. I remember the Krypton factor , screaming at the TV ,FOR GODS SAKE LOOK OUT OF THE WINDOWS ! They always landed on instruments for some reason.

Sn@kebite

pclancy wrote:

Snakebite did you have the lesson yet? gonna book my first one there very soon, it was a good month for commission

Hi pclancy!

No i havn't booked it yet will try to do it soon. lol

The weather is just so annoying i wan't it to be perfect but in this country i'm probably taking for too much.:rolleyes: I should hurry up before i explode as im putting on weight, I'm 5'9'' and at 190lb If it goes any higher the plane won't even get off the ground, or we'll run out of fuel with the throttle up all the way to keep my ass in the air. LMAO!!

kowloon

If you plan on taking it to your full ppl you should look at flightwise, another crowd in Weston, smaller bunch, you get the same instructor each time.
NFC are a less personal experience.

cp251

An A10! Brilliant, I'd love to get my hands on an A10. I flew a 737 simulator once, quite impressive. I look forward to flying the real thing one day. There are airliner sims available in the UK to the public. I can't think of the name of the place. I seem to remember they have an ex RAF F4 simulator available too.

Kowloon, I'm not sure if that's still true. Whatever, you can choose to fly mostly with the same instructor at any school. He or she won't mind it's a guaranteed income after all.

pclancy

Davidth88 wrote:

I would LOVE LOVE LOVE to fly an airliner simulator, just to see if I could do it. I remember the Krypton factor , screaming at the TV ,FOR GODS SAKE LOOK OUT OF THE WINDOWS ! They always landed on instruments for some reason.

I would love to do that. Priced a few places in the UK for around €400 i think last time i checked.

Davidth88

hey OP

Have you had your flight yet , how did it go ?

SouperComputer

kowloon wrote:

If you plan on taking it to your full ppl you should look at flightwise, another crowd in Weston, smaller bunch, you get the same instructor each time.
NFC are a less personal experience.

Id second this. Flightwise have good, experienced instructors and good rates. Adrian Carrie is a funny fella too!

pclancy

Do ye reckon their €195 for one hours first flight is better value then NFC? I like the idea of a more personal experience. Site is cool I like the way you can get the checklists etc for their a/c.

Roar83

Is the rate still 195yoyo an hour. i think i might go with these guys, all schools seem to be in or around the same price give or take €10-15. Does anyone know of any schools that offer instruction time for cheaper