Garda Ombudsman

Saddlebags

Has any one here, that is in dispute with their local Super over granting of certificates, especially with regard to pistol, gone down the road of making a complaint? If there is, what was the attitude of the complaints board?

rrpc

Saddlebags wrote:

Has any one here, that is in dispute with their local Super over granting of certificates, especially with regard to pistol, gone down the road of making a complaint? If there is, what was the attitude of the complaints board?

It's not relevant to the complaints board. Under the firearms act the Superintendent is the final arbiter on granting of a licence and the only way he can be called to account is in court. At present it's the High Court, but as soon as the 2006 act is finally and fully enacted then you can go to the district court.

But by then, what you are looking for may be on the restricted list which is the Comissioners decision and unappealable (if that's a word).

Clare gunner

It's a word all right.:) But according to the reading of the law either or joint refusal can then be appealed to the District Court for a legal appeal.

Sparks

Sure, if you're refused CG. Thing is, what if you're told that there's no problem with you having a licence for your restricted firearm, so long as you fulfill the preconditions laid out by the Commissioner which happen to include storage in a facility with 24-hour manned security? At that point, you can't appeal your being refused the licence because you've been told you'll be granted it as soon as you fulfill the preconditions; and those preconditions are perfectly legal under the new act and there is no legal means to appeal them.

rrpc

Saddlebags wrote:

Has any one here, that is in dispute with their local Super over granting of certificates, especially with regard to pistol, gone down the road of making a complaint? If there is, what was the attitude of the complaints board?

Have you actually been refused Saddlebags? And if so, have you got that refusal in writing?

That's the starting position for any appeal.

Our man in Havana

Sparks wrote:

Sure, if you're refused CG. Thing is, what if you're told that there's no problem with you having a licence for your restricted firearm, so long as you fulfill the preconditions laid out by the Commissioner which happen to include storage in a facility with 24-hour manned security? At that point, you can't appeal your being refused the licence because you've been told you'll be granted it as soon as you fulfill the preconditions; and those preconditions are perfectly legal under the new act and there is no legal means to appeal them.

Therein lies the problem, no refusal=no appeal. However would excessive onerous requirements constitute a de facto refusal and therefore maybe an avenue for appeal.

I dunno if a judicial review of the supers "unreasonable" requirements would fly.

Clare gunner

Actually ,there is one way around the 24 hour manned security possibly.
IF you have a saftey deposit box in your local BANK! A bank has to fulfill security citreia,and it is not uncommon for some folks to store their silverware etc down in the vaults.I knew one old fellah who kept his Purdeys in his local bank in Dublin.Proably wouldnt be a bad idea if you were travelling and stored your guns there.As what could do if the Bank has been robbed??
OTOH there would be another appeal on this I see as a Super /commissioner cant be making unreasonable requests on this either.A dealer maybe,but not an individual,and if this was such a worry,why isnt it stipulated that ALL gundealers have manned 24 hour security past and now and future??
I know we like to take the ultimate pessimistic views on things here.But logic somtimes also prevails in legal system.

rrpc

I'd agree with you there CG, but that was just an example Sparks gave, there could be other conditions that may be just as onerous, but not unreasonable, such as that someone is present in the house at all times, or that access to the property be controlled with security gates and electric fences, or that the safe be mass concrete etc.

Some people I know gave up after the requirement for a monitored alarm.

Clare gunner

Well, one thing about all this legislation and requirements.It sure does determine who is dead serious about about shooting handguns and big cal stuff,and who this might have just a passing fad or easily wanted to get a gun.Is this good or bad??
BTW it is illegal to run an electric fence around your private property,be it high voltage or cattle strength electic fencing.Even with notices on the fence.

rrpc

Clare gunner wrote:

BTW it is illegal to run an electric fence around your private property,be it high voltage or cattle strength electic fencing.Even with notices on the fence.

There you go taking me literally again But surely it's OK to have an electric fence if you have an oul cow on the property

Clare gunner

Yeah,in a field it is.But no doubt the animal libbers will soon have somthing to say about that.As no doubt us animal abusers greatly enjoy trussing up cows in electric fence tape and electrocuting them,and no doubt it is then only a step to electrocuting people...:rolleyes: :rolleyes:

Saddlebags

rrpc wrote:

Have you actually been refused Saddlebags? And if so, have you got that refusal in writing?

That's the starting position for any appeal.

Yeah, I've been refused and it is currently before the high court but it still hasn't been listed for hearing in the Michalmas Term (as I expected it to be), so at best I may get a hearing at year-end but possibly not till spring!:mad:

Our man in Havana

I wonder if the FAC will be granted on the steps?

rrpc

Bond-007 wrote:

I wonder if the FAC will be granted on the steps?

That seems to be the standard response.

Minister really needs to sign in the new act and put an end to all this bull.

BryanL

how will the act help?

Our man in Havana

Maximum 90 day response time to applications and refusals can be appealed to the District court rather than the High court.

alan123

Which area you in Saddle?

Saddlebags

Dont want to be too specific while its before the courts but I'm roughly south-east.

Saddlebags

alan123 wrote:

Which area you in Saddle?

Dont want to be too specific while its before the courts but I'm roughly south-east.

alan123

Ill be interested to hear how you get on, no doubt you will give us the full post-outcome rundown.

Saddlebags

alan123 wrote:

Ill be interested to hear how you get on, no doubt you will give us the full post-outcome rundown.

I wont have to post when I win(hopefully), you will hear me whooping it up!:D