Illegal dumping in Charlesland

woodser

Got back from holidays this afternoon went for a stroll to clear the jetlag. Whats the story anybody on all the junk piled up by the river 10% seems to have come out of the river which is not part of Charlesland Wood. 90% of it seems to be fresh stuff thrown on by somebody who doesnt want to hire a skip .Anybody enlighten me?:mad: Why is junk from the river that is council property on our privately run estate a why are people adding to the pile ?Who is responsible for this fiasco and who is responsible for getting rid of it?:mad: :mad: :mad: :mad:

Marcais

woodser wrote:

Got back from holidays this afternoon went for a stroll to clear the jetlag. Whats the story anybody on all the junk piled up by the river 10% seems to have come out of the river which is not part of Charlesland Wood. 90% of it seems to be fresh stuff thrown on by somebody who doesnt want to hire a skip .Anybody enlighten me?:mad: Why is junk from the river that is council property on our privately run estate a why are people adding to the pile ?Who is responsible for this fiasco and who is responsible for getting rid of it?:mad: :mad: :mad: :mad:

The Council shold be able to answer most of your questions.

Environment
0404 20296
0404 67792 enserv@wicklowcoco.ie

woodser

Called them and they said they removed two piles already.They said that they are investigating the dumping but as the third pile is in privately managed estate puy there by residents?????? they are not responsible for it.As only part of it seems to come out of the river.They said to contact greenstar or one of the other providers to hire a skip I'll be damned if I'm spending a couple of hundreed quid on rubbish that other residents??? put there.Anybody have a clue who these residents are:mad:

Hammiepeters

Would just be a guess. But I'd say it was the people who dump in the river on a regular basis and that they are not from Charlesland. If only the great wise one, Dick Roche, had installed his rokcams.

ian_m

Gardaí should be notified also. Regardless of who has responsibility for the land.

dubrunner

Hammiepeters wrote:

Would just be a guess. But I'd say it was the people who dump in the river on a regular basis and that they are not from Charlesland. If only the great wise one, Dick Roche, had installed his rokcams.

The constant referral to FF for any problems in our estate is now getting pathetic.

Reality: there is a minority of gougers doing this (irrespective of what political party is in government) and the council and Mgt. company have to both act on this ASAP, as the river is acting as a boundary between the 2 lands.

Marcais

Hammiepeters wrote:

Would just be a guess. But I'd say it was the people who dump in the river on a regular basis and that they are not from Charlesland. If only the great wise one, Dick Roche, had installed his rokcams.

Illegal Dumping Hotline 1850 365 121

Should be some evidence in the pile as to who did the dumping. Hopefully they are forced to pay and hopefully they are not from Charlesland.

mikedragon32

Woodser, you should contact the Committee for the Charlesland Wood Management Company. They circulated a newsletter a few weeks ago asking people to join in and have a barbeque afterwards (cos the one thing I always like is to dredge a rat-infested stream and then have a burger).

They were involved in the organisation of the removal of the stuff from the stream onto our property and were supposed to have it removed last Monday.

It would appear to have become a photo op for a councillor, Kathleen Kelleher. Word has it she was about on Monday having her pic taken with some of the rubbish being removed. My guess is, once the cameras left, so did the truck.

What I can't for the life of me figure out is why on earth someone thought it would be a good idea to clean a stream we didn't foul up, that's not even on our property.

Marcais

mikedragon32 wrote:

Woodser, you should contact the Committee for the Charlesland Wood Management Company. They circulated a newsletter a few weeks ago asking people to join in and have a barbeque afterwards (cos the one thing I always like is to dredge a rat-infested stream and then have a burger).

They were involved in the organisation of the removal of the stuff from the stream onto our property and were supposed to have it removed last Monday.

It would appear to have become a photo op for a councillor, Kathleen Kelleher. Word has it she was about on Monday having her pic taken with some of the rubbish being removed. My guess is, once the cameras left, so did the truck.

What I can't for the life of me figure out is why on earth someone thought it would be a good idea to clean a stream we didn't foul up, that's not even on our property.

OK! give Kathleen a call, I'm sure she'll be more than pleased to get the job finished.

01-2875327

email: KKelleher@wicklowcoco.ie

Hammiepeters

dubrunner wrote:

The constant referral to FF for any problems in our estate is now getting pathetic.

Reality: there is a minority of gougers doing this (irrespective of what political party is in government) and the council and Mgt. company have to both act on this ASAP, as the river is acting as a boundary between the 2 lands.

Getting a bit touchy there dub. I'm not anti FF. I just believe Mr. Roche was an incompetent Minister for the Envoironment and his appointment was an insult to anyone who cares about the subject. It will be interesting to see what Mahon drags up on him. He was very anxious to have the tribunal abandoned there just before election. It would not be difficult to find out who in a certain estate nearby is dumping in the river. The problem is that same people just have no concept of paying for rubbish to picked up or indeed paying any penalty for their actions.

Hammiepeters

suggest you also email the new minister for the environment and local govt.
When a community within a community is forced to pay for another tier of administration (ie; management fees) then are they not entitled to all the protections of that community? Should we have our own E.P.A. and our own Gardai? Perhaps we need to set up a vigilante group to police the creek? Guardian Angels anyone?

Or, should we do what every other Estate that wasn't built in the last 5 years does and ahhh, get the county council to take responsibility for the upkeep of common lands? They are paid by the taxes collected from our wages and vat/stamp duty etc. We pay those taxes to recieve the benefit of living in a community, and yet if you live on a newly built estate, you have to pay again, for garbage collection, and again for "Management Fees". And this double dipping gets us what? A bus to make up for the fact that Bus Eireann doesnt want to take advantage of the dual carriageway and keeps jamming double deckers through Dalgeny, when there are 1500 new households on that dual carriageway, and some landscaping.

If the council had used those taxes to clean up the creek, then there would be some incentive for the E.P.A. or Guards to police the ilegal dumping that takes place on the other side of our fence. I saw some of the people who do that dumping cutting the fence with wire clippers a couple of weeks ago. But the guardai just humor me when I ring them. I see our own landscapers conveniently dumping grass clippings in the holes made by the skangers. And I see little tents made out of all the rubbish that gets dumped. It wouldnt take Columbo to come down here in his raincoat to catch who was doing the dumping, but we live in a culture that looks the other way when people decide to make a lifestyle of ilegal dumping and squatting on public land.


However!!!! I commend the people who tried to clean up their environment and organised the clean up, I just think they should have got some state support to do it PRIOR to the clean up day. And the frigging council should cop on to themselves and offer to remove all the stuff that the good people have dragged out of the creek on their day off.
In many countries a designated day of the year is set aside to "Clean Up......." and community groups pull together with local authorities, the local authorities taking the stuff away safely at the end of the day. This would be a great idea here. Unfortunately the previous Environment ministers plan to charge a premium for garbage removal has meant that we now have an underclass who dump their garbage in secret. While us nice middle class folk are reducing, reusing and recycling, in order to reduce waste, there is a subculture of garbage removal and dumping that capitilises on this. Maybe if we were paid to recycle, and got our garbage removed for free, we could reverse this trend?

MIkedragon, I am as cynical as you and I have resisted the urge to say I Told You So! The clean up crowd were well intentioned, just a bit naive.....

ps, this is my view personally and in no way represents the views of Mr Hammie.

mikedragon32

Mrs Hammie, it might be prudent to get an account of your own. It's not against regs to post on Mr's account, but it is confusing!

Anyway, I've been a busy bee and dug out the Charlesland Wood Residents Newsletter. Here's what it said (typed verbatim, the mistakes are courtesy of the committee) :

Litter Pickup
The Litter pick up will take place on the 29th of July 10am till 13pm. Wicklow Co. Co. will provide gloves and bags and will collect the rubbish after the event.

Interesting that it also mentions that people are hanging out laundry in areas visible to the public. How many back gardens are visible to the public from the road. Should we now all stop doing laundry? It astounds me in this day and age of "Do one thing" and steps for energy conservation, that we shouldn't use the MOST environmentally friendly way to dry our clothes.

Shame the committee couldn't get busy with things that actually matter, like the refund of overcharges that was fought for by several individuals, without support from the committee. Or even follow up with the agents when the refund was made incorrectly. Although I do get a giggle from the Viz-style "top tips" approach to the whole newsletter. Fair play.

woodser

Wait till you hear this one.Cllr Kelleher turned up after the so called clean up and she enquired as to who actually collected the first two piles.W.C.C. are wait for it --"uncertain as to who collected it".
I agree with hammipetters and Mikedragon this committee is a disaster.Jaysus looking after council property and lending no support to matters that concern us internally .Who is paying for these newsletters that in my view and from what others have intimated here have the same value as the stuff I wipe me ar** with.They better not show up in the accounts this year.
Doing the councils work for them cleaning up their stream.Yet not supporting the two lads who went out on a limb for the rest of us 279 units- on refunds and still wont help to bring it to a conclusion. When the landscaping problem arose which I have just been made aware of that 2 companies were engaged in the wood from dec to april and no maintenance done it was one of the two lads mentioned above that turned the heat on to get it sorted.I was told he sorted it in 24 hours. Threatening to bury the management agents under so much of the proverbial that it'd take them a year to dig their way out. Where was the famous comittee for these four months and I believe we should all be entitled to 25% refund of the annual cost of landscaping that didnt happen back for the first four months of this year that better not appear in the accounts either. Anyway enough of the rant .There are four or five like minded individuals on this thread I suggest we all meet in person and replace this committee at the next agm

D2

Three points:

1. Greystones Town Council and a local rep were approached in relation to the clean-up of the stream, but no action was forthcoming.
2. Residents have a direct interest in cleaning up the stream, not only because it borders their property and adds to their amenity, but it is also important to keep it free-flowing and rid of any prospective blockages for all the obvious reasons. Well done to those who got out their wellington boots and made the effort bright and early last Sunday.
3. One of the points often raised by people is the need for a sense of community in Charlesland and to bring people together. Any efforts in this regard can only be commended.

As for the remaining items of rubbish, why not email your committee directly and see what the situation is or call Wyse managing agents - that's what they're there for.

gstonesmx5

i can tell you that two posters on this thread (from what has been written so far) dont have some of the details on the issues they are commenting about.

stop lambasting people, get up and join your committee. you dont have to wait till the agm to join the voluntary (but voted in by residents at the last agm) committee. some people make the effort and try to help so why not respect their efforts.

my two cents.

mikedragon32

gstonesmx5 wrote:

i can tell you that two posters on this thread (from what has been written so far) dont have some of the details on the issues they are commenting about.

stop lambasting people, get up and join your committee. you dont have to wait till the agm to join the voluntary (but voted in by residents at the last agm) committee. some people make the effort and try to help so why not respect their efforts.

my two cents.

So are you telling us that some of the committee members have NOT been voted in by the residents at a duly appointed meeting?

It's hard to respect the "effort" when it appears that all that has been produced is a couple of poorly produced newsletters and a pile of waste from a rat infested stream that has been dragged onto our property.

The work of most benefit to the residents was not carried out by the committee in the last 12 months, but by others, who took time out of their own lives and jobs to pursue the issue of overcharging, as well as chasing up on making sure that the errors in the accounts circulated at last year's AGM were corrected and verified.

If the committee had the cojones to tackle these issues, then they may well be taken more seriously.

As for not having some of the details, I can tell you that my information has come from a very reliable source and from someone who was there. Details like the Councillor asking the council to provide a van, being denied, securing a local firm to remove the rubbish, having a camera from the local press there to photograph her and others at the removal of one pile, the council being called and told that the press were on to the story, then sending a van down to collect some of the rubbish, camera goes, vans go, one pile of rubbish remains. Those sorts of details?

Not to mention the committee member from the court who told me he couldn't be arsed with it.

I fail to see how dragging all that crap into the estate from a stream that's blocked off by a fence and a lot of growth adds to the amenity. Lastly D2, I fail to see what action Wyse would be able to take with the exception of bringing illegal dumping charges against those who organised and took part in last week's activity. If they knew about it in advance and encouraged it, they they too are complicit in illegal dumping. But of course the commitee and/or Wyse are hardly going to pursue the matter.

One final point, at last year's AGM the issue of cleaning the stream was raised, and if memory serves, there was broad opposition to it from the majority for reasons already stated in this thread.

woodser

Hear Hear Mike I took the liberty to call Wyse on Friday and they said it has absolutely nothing to with them if residents removed rubbish from council land and dumped it on the estate they also said the committe was ad hoc andits decisions or actions had nothing to them or charlesland Wood Management co. Ltd nor were they liable for its actions .They stated it should be reported to the Council litter warden who can prosecute .At least for once they gave a definitive answer.It wasnt our normal contact person in Wyse.So I took their advice and the warden tells me he has no juristiction in a private estate but would hve on a private property in Charlesland.His supervisor and the Environmental engineer said as Ballymore were the major shareholders in the management co. they effectively own the common areas and as they had made no compliant then they could do nothing --quoted some bye law about a bye law.However if I reported it to the Gardai they could definitely take a criminal prosecution, if the rubbish wasnt removed .I'm going to wait till tomorrow evening and see if its gone if not then its off down to our local constabularys office to lodge a formal complaint and let them find out who the individuals were.

woodser

well gstonemx5 can you tell us when the remaining pile of rubbish is going to be removed or how?:mad: and by whom?:mad:

mikedragon32

Woodser, I await an update on this with great anticipation. Have Wyse been asked to advise Ballymore of this?

The Yipper

MikeDragon
i'm sure most of the people here would appreciate it if you'd keep your views on the workings of committees you obvoiusly know nothing about, to yourself.
maybe you should get yourself on to a committee and be proactive in making Charlesland a nicer place to live, rather than slag off the individuals who give over their private time trying to keep the management companies in line and make a difference.
it's bad enough when there are brainless morons on this thread complaining about the general state of the development as a whole, robberies, car thefts, skobies etc.... talk about giving the place a bad name!!!
And then people wonder why houses aren't selling. Would you buy a house in a development with car theft problems, rats, and burglaries.

mikedragon32

Yipper,

Are you suggesting that information shared about such things should be supressed in order to maintain property values?

If you think that the people who contribute to this forum are brainless morons, why the hell do you keep posting? It might also be worthwhile at this point to remind yourself of the charter for this board, particularly in relation to flame and abuse. Feel free to comment on the posts, not the posters. Users have been issued warnings for remarks such as yours in the past.

As for the workings of the committee, I keep myself fully appraised and as someone who has attended any and all properly convened meetings of the management company (ie the AGMS), I am fully entitled to express my views. The last I heard, I am actually a member of the Management Company, by virtue of the fact that I am an owner and a resident. As for keeping the management companies in line, it wasn't the committee who managed to rake back the excessive charges, which is something that actually IS of benefit to the owners of houses in Charlesland, and I can say I did play a minor part in that.

Tell me Yipper, were YOU involved in the illegal dumping on the privately owned grounds next to the Three Trouts Stream?

loyatemu

The Yipper wrote:

MikeDragon
i'm sure most of the people here would appreciate it if you'd keep your views on the workings of committees you obvoiusly know nothing about, to yourself.
maybe you should get yourself on to a committee and be proactive in making Charlesland a nicer place to live, rather than slag off the individuals who give over their private time trying to keep the management companies in line and make a difference.
it's bad enough when there are brainless morons on this thread complaining about the general state of the development as a whole, robberies, car thefts, skobies etc.... talk about giving the place a bad name!!!
And then people wonder why houses aren't selling. Would you buy a house in a development with car theft problems, rats, and burglaries.

this is ridiculous - so someone has a car nicked, or notices something suspicious, then they shouldn't mention it at all in case it affects the value of properties? And residents committees should be totally immune from criticism regardless of what they do?? Jesus, your 4-legged namesake makes more sense than that.

Hammiepeters

loyatemu wrote:

this is ridiculous - so someone has a car nicked, or notices something suspicious, then they shouldn't mention it at all in case it affects the value of properties? And residents committees should be totally immune from criticism regardless of what they do?? Jesus, your 4-legged namesake makes more sense than that.

Yes Yipper , your points are ridiculous. this forum is here for people to discuss issues of concern. Most issues you mention are common societal problems in any community and their discussion here shows a level of vigilance that would only enhance the reputation of Charlesland as a good place to live. Mike is perfectly entitled to question the value of the ill fated stream ''clean up''.

gstonesmx5

To All,
Andrew Lawless is a Senior Exec Eng in Wcklow Co.Co. and he said that he will organise for the remainder of the rubbish to be collected.
It has also been noted that no one from this thread has contacted the Wood Committee.
mikedragon32 said " It might also be worthwhile at this point to remind yourself of the charter for this board, particularly in relation to flame and abuse. Feel free to comment on the posts, not the posters. Users have been issued warnings for remarks such as yours in the past." . Surley you can understand that what has been said about the Wood Committee would be in breach of this.
It is possible for any single member of a property to join the committee at any stage between agm's.
The issue of funds and managment fees was something the Committee knew about and were in contact with the persons who were working on it. Why it was not done throught the Committee is between the Committee and them.
The Court Committee member is free to express any opinion they like but i fail to see what relivance it has in this a Wood thread.

I will no longer be waisting my time with this thread.

If people want to discuss this with the Wood Committee they can be reached at charleslandwood@gmail.com

Hammiepeters

dubrunner wrote:

The constant referral to FF for any problems in our estate is now getting pathetic.

Reality: there is a minority of gougers doing this (irrespective of what political party is in government) and the council and Mgt. company have to both act on this ASAP, as the river is acting as a boundary between the 2 lands.

Sorry forgot to add that whilst Dick Roach was a hopeless MOE. Joe Behan is a genuinely good bloke and a hard worker.

mikedragon32

You can choose to wear two caps on this forum if you wish, however at least twice you have stated that this board has no affiliation with the Committee, including a mention at the AGM last year, yet here you are waving your committee badge.

Nobody here has said "gstonesmx5 is a ..........." so I fail to understand how or why you claim to have been abused.

Simple fact of the matter is, we are perfectly at liberty to question or criticise what the committee does. This doesn't constitute abuse. This is you taking it personally. The criticism of the committee is not a criticism of you as a poster or a person, unless of course, you are claiming to BE the committee. The posters on this board, most of whom live in the Wood, have been told by you that they don't know what's going on, yet you haven't explained. This is your opportunity.

Anyway, could you explain how someone who hasn't been nominated and voted in by the members of the Charlesland Management Company at a duly convened meeting can become a Committee member?

Fear not, if you choose not to answer here, I will e-mail the gmail account too.

The Yipper

mikedragon32 wrote:

Anyway, could you explain how someone who hasn't been nominated and voted in by the members of the Charlesland Management Company at a duly convened meeting can become a Committee member?

Maybe if you attended the meetings you so adamantly protest you DO attend, you'd have the answer to that question without having to waste space here!:rolleyes:

Oh! and replying to your initial query - Yeah! it's me who's dumping stuff in the stream and all over Co Wicklow in general. In fact, I am solely responsible for any illegal dumping you see lying at the side of every road in Ireland. My four little legs and stout back are more than capable of lugging a chest freezer and a couple of tractor tyres for miles.:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

As for the "flame and abuse" accusation, if you read my post properly, and without prujudice, you'd notice that I didn't actually mention any names, which, as I have been reminded by eoin on more than one occasion, is the more integral part of the charter
Rather than resorting to a slagging match, feel free to PM me and i can set you straight on the abundance of information you are so obviously lacking.


gstonesmx5...I see your point!!!;)

D2

Three questions, and I hope that they will be taken in a spirit of constructive commentary:

1. Is it fair or reasonable that when the point is made about people wishing to join a committee at the next AGM, that when the offer is made in a spirit of inclusivity, that people can join at any time, that this is rebuffed? (Is there anything in the articles/memorandums of association of the company which dictates that people cannot join in the intervening period?)
2. Is it fair or reasonable that when someone makes a point that they then are accused of a legal offence (ie illegal dumping)?
3. Is it fair or reasonable that a committee member be named, other than by their username, as is the case with everyone else who contributes?

Surely the more productive and positive path here would be to engage with your committee, who have expressed a willingness to so do, and to try to work in harmony both as neighbours and as a wider community for the betterment of all?

The Yipper

Jaysus D2!
That's way too sensible.

Valid questions all the same. I see whre you're coming from....and I can't speak for any of the committees, but you should make contact with your specific residents committee for details of how to become embroiled the the wonders of local proactivity.

There are individuals contributing to this thread who seem to take everything too seriously.:eek:

mikedragon32

I'm sure you have a point there Yipper, but it was lost amongst all those emoticons and dog analogies. Feel free to PM me if you wish.

D2's questions:

1) I have no recollection of anyone stating that during the interim period between AGMs that people could or would be drafted to the Committee. IIRC it's not minuted.

2) Asking The Yipper if he was involved in illegal dumping eliceted pretty much the response I was expecting, ie not a yes. He claimed I didn't know what I was on about, but I probably know more than him in that I received a very good appraisal of the situation from other members of the Management Company. It was not meant as an attack, merely seeking to see if he knew what he was talking about. You will note that I didn't ask that question of everyone who has a differing opinion to me.

3) The poster made it clear who he was posting on behalf of. Until then, I didn't actually know who he was. I made an educated guess (Admin will confirm I have no access to user lists in order to get names of users), and it looks like I was correct. I will edit the post to remove his name.

However, the point of this thread was to question the actions of a small number of people who cleared the stream and piled it up on our amenity. As was pointed out, this is a perfectly legitimate medium through with to query the actions of the Committee, in much the same way as if Woodser and I were in a pub, we can moan as much as we like. If (keeping with the pub analogy) during the conversation a member of the committee we're moaning about decides to butt in and defend its honour, would we not be fully entitled to ask questions? Would you not be disappointed that some of the questions are answered but you're told "ah you'll need to write to the committee for answers to the rest"?

The Committee doesn't have to respond here and I certainly wouldn't have thought less of them for not responding, but it can't pop in, answer part of a query that suits and then run back and hide behind a gmail account.

The OP had a legitimate query. It was answered. The committee have organised to get the remaining mess cleared up, so well done on that.

I have every right not to agree that the task should have been undertaken in the first place and stand by it. It has nothing to do with not wanting to be part of the community or being mean spirited. I pay taxes and on top of that service charges. One or other of those should pay for that work to be done, why should I give up the little free time I have at home to do something I pay for?

mikedragon32

My queries to the committee of Charlesland Wood Management Company Limited are being dealt with and it has been agreed that the responses I receive from the committee will not be placed on this board.

In return, I have invited the committee to take a more active role in posting updates on issues that affect the Wood on this forum. It would seem appropriate to extend this to the other committees. I think a lot of issues can be cleared up (or possibly not even arise) with their participation.

That's not to say that the board becomes the mouthpiece of the committees, but it is an opportunity for better information and less confusion.

In the meantime, I'm putting this thread under moderation (ie locking it), not least because I feel that I have compromised myself in it.

The matter raised in the thread has been resolved, the OP got his answers.