"Citizen's arrest" of US soldiers in Shannon

FYI

Fratton Fred wrote:

The RN was acting under UN sanction and "Potentially" strayed into territory that belonged to Iran. Protocol dictates that the offending navy gets told to clear off and does so, if not it is an act of aggression. turning the whole thing into a media circus to keep your mad extremists happy goes a bit beyind what is acceptable.

The UN mandate does not address the prious breaches of the charter by the 'allies'.

It looks likely that a hostile military entered Iranian waters openly stating to Sky news days before that they gather intelligence on Iranian military movements etc.

Given that the US/UK are pretty much threatening Iran with military action it comes as no surprise Iran would arrest these sailors.

I'd like to see which protocol it is that this goes against.

oh and FYI:

Shannon peace activist put six young US service men under (citizens) arrest.

Visiting US troopsWhile Driving through Ennis town yesterday afternoon a local anti-war activist put six young US service men under (citizens) arrest. On Thursday morning an US troop carrier landed at Shannon with technical problems. This is a common occurrence with the chartered troop carriers that come through Shannon Airport. With an average of 1100 hundred troops going through Irelands second international airport on a nightly basis these aircraft are flat out ferrying young men and women to Iraq. Many of these stranded soldiers were billeted at the West County Hotel in Ennis near where peace activist Conor Cregan encountered six young US servicemen on the main Ennis to Limerick road.

Cregan immediately called for the six to stop. “I am placing you all under citizen’s arrest. Do not move” he shouted as the stunned men came to a halt. After assuring the men that they were not in jeopardy the peace activist made an emergency call to Ennis Garda Station. Cregan called for the Member in charge to send a van to pick up these awol soldiers but Garda O'Sullivan’s response was less than helpful. The deskbound officer was more interested to know if they were armed or their commander in chief George W Bush was among them. Mind you he wasn’t so funny when reminded that that all emergency calls were recorded.

Convinced that he wouldn’t get any joy from the Ennis Garda station Cregan went into the hotel to look for the Commanding Officer of the US troops. He approached a NCO but she could not see the man in charge but then Cregan spotted a familiar face coming towards him. DGda Jarlaith Fathy, a man who once tried to frame him for a crime he did not commit, was leaning over the reception desk.

Cregan called for the detective to take charge of the soldiers. Fathy followed him out to the front of the building where the six were sheepishly edging their way towards the entrance to the hotel. One polite young trooper leaned over and extended his hand towards the peace activist and apologized. Cregan again assured the young man that he was not in trouble and informed the lost patrol that in fact this was a diplomatic matter and that the Irish government was the wrongdoer in this situation. He thanked the men for their cooperation and left them in the hands of DGda Fathy who ushered them back into the hotel.

Later Conor Cregan registered a complaint with Superintendent John Kerin of Ennis Garda Station. Supt Kerin seemed surprised that anyone would complain about a foreign army walking the roads of Ireland and tried to convince that this was not a major issue. The top cop was more annoyed that Mr. Cregan had rang the Ennis Gardai Station on the 999 emergency line and informed him that he would be investigating the matter with a view to prosecute.

Later Conor Cregan returned to the West County Hotel to follow up this story. Standing outside the front entrance were three NCO’s, of the American Army, smoking cigarettes and a chat with a member of An Gardai Siochana. These young soldiers were enjoying their down time but complained about lack of heat. One soldier informed the reporter that “the weather would be a lot hotter in Texas” where she was from. She also said it was hot in Iraq and after their two week vacation she would be returning to duty in the middle-east war zone. Standing beside her was a friend from her home state and a sergeant from “Hollywood California” who would have liked to visit the town of Ennis but had no clothes to wear.
When asked why they were not allowed to leave the hotel she replied that “the people her might not like to see us”.

Another soldier dressed in “Army” shorts and T-shirt explained that they were invited to Ireland by the Irish Government.

When Conor Cregan started to clarify the nature of a neutral state like Ireland and the responsibilities that came with this status a member of An Gardai Siochana came over and just as he explained that under international law that all belligerent combatants should be interned under close arrest the young Ennis Guard asked him to identify himself.
“Conor Cregan and you are”
“I am a Guard that’s all you need to know”
“And Guard you don’t have any numbers on”
She replied to this sternly and ushered the US troops back into the hotel. After a while two another uniformed Garda and two plain clothes Garda arrive on the scene. The situation seemed to be in hand so this report left.

http://www.indymedia.ie/article/76801

Liam Byrne

It's off-topic, but worth reading....

Fair play Conor Gregan.....aside from the core problem with the U.S. using Shannon, the fact is that the Govermnment (as distinct from the people) allowed them to do so ON CONDITION THAT THEY DO NOT WEAR ARMY CLOTHING.

Go out to Shannon any day and you'll get a constant reminder that we are involved in an illegal war. :mad:

Fratton Fred

did that actually happen or was it a scene from Ballykissangel?

Fratton Fred

FYI wrote:

The UN mandate does not address the prious breaches of the charter by the 'allies'.

It looks likely that a hostile military entered Iranian waters openly stating to Sky news days before that they gather intelligence on Iranian military movements etc.

Given that the US/UK are pretty much threatening Iran with military action it comes as no surprise Iran would arrest these sailors.

I'd like to see which protocol it is that this goes against.

where have the allies breached the charter and where does it say they entered Iranian waters?

FYI

Fratton Fred wrote:

where have the allies breached the charter and where does it say they entered Iranian waters?

1) That would be the illegal war of aggression

2) Read pages 16, 17 and 18

http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm200607/cmselect/cmfaff/880/880.pdf

There is sufficient evidence to believe both or neither

Manic Moran

Liam Byrne wrote:

aside from the core problem with the U.S. using Shannon, the fact is that the Govermnment (as distinct from the people) allowed them to do so ON CONDITION THAT THEY DO NOT WEAR ARMY CLOTHING.

As one of the US troops who passed through Shannon in uniform (And even spent my hard-earned dosh on a bottle of Middleton's in the Duty-Free to celebrate my safe return), and aware of Irish law on the issue, I had some time ago taken the trouble to look it up. Evidently unlike yourself.

http://www.taoiseach.gov.ie/index.asp?locID=379&docID=1416

Another matter on which I have acted to tighten the application of regulations relates to the wearing of military uniforms by foreign troops. Under Section 317 of Defence Act, 1954, military personnel are forbidden to enter or land in the state while wearing a uniform, except with written Ministerial permission. Following discussions between my Department and the US Embassy, the Embassy sought, and was granted, Ministerial permission to wear duty uniform in the immediate vicinity of an arrival/departure airfield

did that actually happen or was it a scene from Ballykissangel?

Actually happened. Showed up in Stars and Stripes (US Army newspaper) as well. Wonderful example of Irish hospitality which will both provide an amusing story for telling, and another great way of reinforcing the stereotype of Irish eccentricity. Whilst fair play to the chap for acting on his convictions, he was wrong in matter of fact and cannot be held up as an example to be followed. Next time, maybe he should check his facts instead of depriving some troops of the opportunity to see some little bit of Ireland which they might otherwise have not known about.

NTM

FYI

Manic Moran wrote:

http://www.taoiseach.gov.ie/index.asp?locID=379&docID=1416
NTM

Where does this contradict Liam's comments?

Manic Moran

FYI wrote:

Where does this contradict Liam's comments?

Umm... The bit in block caps about 'on condition of not wearing army uniform' appears to be directly contradicted by the statement that the government received a request, and granted persmission for the wearing of army uniforms.

NTM

FYI

From Cowen's Statement:

"Another matter on which I have acted to tighten the application of regulations relates to the wearing of military uniforms by foreign troops. Under Section 317 of Defence Act, 1954, military personnel are forbidden to enter or land in the state while wearing a uniform, except with written Ministerial permission. Following discussions between my Department and the US Embassy, the Embassy sought, and was granted, Ministerial permission to wear duty uniform in the immediate vicinity of an arrival/departure airfield. Any requests for exceptions to this policy are to be submitted to my Department."

LostinBlanch

Manic Moran wrote:

And even spent my hard-earned dosh on a bottle of Middleton's in the Duty-Free to celebrate my safe return

Did you enjoy it?

I'd have gone for Redbreast 12 year old myself.

Manic Moran

FYI wrote:

From Cowen's Statement:

"Following discussions between my Department and the US Embassy, the Embassy sought, and was granted, Ministerial permission to wear duty uniform in the immediate vicinity of an arrival/departure airfield. Any requests for exceptions to this policy are to be submitted to my Department."

Not that my English Comprehension might have been damaged by my living in the US, but does't that mean that the US military has permission to wear uniform at Shannon and its immediate vicinity? The terms 'sought, and was granted [...] permission' seem to be applicable.

NTM

FYI

Manic Moran wrote:

Not that my English Comprehension might have been damaged by my living in the US

I wouldn't llike to guess where it has been damaged.

He says:

"immediate vicinity of an arrival/departure airfield"

which is basically between the plane and the gate, NOT OUTSIDE THE AIRPORT.

Manic Moran

FYI wrote:

which is basically between the plane and the gate, NOT OUTSIDE THE AIRPORT.

You really want to check your definition of 'immediate vicinity.' It means in the proximate area of, or close nearby. It does not restrict to within. I would submit that somewhere close enough that one could accomodate a hundred people on short notice would so constitute. Note also that 'airport' and 'airfield' are not synonymous. Airfield is the entire facility which is boundaried by the fence. The airport is the main structure and ancilliary buildings.

NTM

FYI

Manic Moran wrote:

You really want to check your definition of 'immediate vicinity.' It means in the proximate area of, or close nearby. It does not restrict to within. I would submit that somewhere close enough that one could accomodate a hundred people on short notice would so constitute.

NTM

How long will you drag this argument out???

The article says: "Ennis town"

This is not in the 'in the immediate vicinity of an arrival/departure airfield' of Shannon airport.

Fratton Fred

FYI wrote:

How long will you drag this argument out???

The article says: "Ennis town"

This is not in the 'in the immediate vicinity of an arrival/departure airfield' of Shannon airport.

I'll let the yanks know that the next time they want to invade Ennis to do it in civies, that way they'll meet no resistance.

Korea, Vietnam, Iraq, Cuba, Ennis, these damn americans don't know when to stop do they:p

Manic Moran

FYI wrote:

How long will you drag this argument out???

Long enough.

The article says: "Ennis town"

This is not in the 'in the immediate vicinity of an arrival/departure airfield' of Shannon airport.

Ennis is the nearest notable town to Shannon Airport, 13 miles according to the marker. We're not exactly talking all the way to Limerick here, and as such does qualify under 'immediate vicinity'

If the troops weren't permitted to leave the airfield under any circumstances, they wouldn't say 'immediate vicinity'. If they are permitted to leave the airfield, it must be for a reason, the most likely one being acommodation for a delayed flight. Ennis, being the nearest town, would be that location. Unless you suggest they want permission to go down the road half a mile to get some mingies at the local Shell station.

NTM

RedPlanet

FFS Manic!

Ennis is miles away from the immediate vicinity of Shannon Airport.
If the soldiers were permitted to wear their crappy uniforms then the Gard wouldn't have ushered them inside.

AbusesToilets

I imagine the Garda ushered the soldiers inside to avoid having to deal with the bell-end who put them under citizens arrest.

Manic Moran

Ennis is miles away from the immediate vicinity of Shannon Airport.

And as mentioned, is the closest town of any note. On a national, or even international level, Limerick is 'in the vicinity of Shannon'. Ennis, being the nearest town, would be the immediate vicinity, by virtue of necessity as there's nowhere else which could count.

If the soldiers were permitted to wear their crappy uniforms then the Gard wouldn't have ushered them inside.

Step one in resolving a conflict is to remove from view the source of that conflict if possible. And they're actually reasonably good uniforms, particularly the DCUs. ACUs could do with a little less velcro though. Hopefully they'll change that in the next run.

NTM

RedPlanet

AbusesToilets wrote:

I imagine the Garda ushered the soldiers inside to avoid having to deal with the bell-end who put them under citizens arrest.

Oh do you now?
You mean the Gard would have infringed upon the soldiers rights to keep quiet a dirty protester?
I doubt that very much.

FYI

Manic Moran wrote:

And as mentioned, is the closest town of any note. On a national, or even international level, Limerick is 'in the vicinity of Shannon'. Ennis, being the nearest town, would be the immediate vicinity, by virtue of necessity as there's nowhere else which could count.

Let's consult the dictionary then shall we???

Immediate:

'Having no intervening medium'

'Very close or connected in space or time'

Lemming

FYI wrote:

Let's consult the dictionary then shall we???

Immediate:

'Having no intervening medium'

Ummmm ... didn't Manic just point out the whole "nothing else in between Ennis & Shannon airport" thing? Thus falling under your very own words of "Having no intervening medium" :rolleyes:

or are you so quick try and "win an argument on t3h 1nt0rw3b" that you can't see the wood for the trees?

RedPlanet

I think the FACT, that the Gard ushered the dopey troops inside as soon as the infraction was brought to attention; and there was no protest on the part of the soldiers, or their commander's, or the US Embassy...is conclusive proof that Ennis town is not considered within the "immediate vicinity" as refered in the 29 January 2003 Government Press Release - Statement by the Minister for Foreign Affairs.

Has anybody been seeing dopey American Soldiers in Ennis, dumbing around in their ugly uniforms?

Manic Moran

and there was no protest on the part of the soldiers, or their commander's, or the US Embassy...is conclusive proof that Ennis town is not considered within the "immediate vicinity" as refered in the 29 January

Or maybe they concluded that as the situation was defused with nobody arrested and there was nothing else to be done, they had better things to do with their time than muck around with protests over dead issues which were unique in their occurrence.

I suggest that if you are so sure of the correct standing of your position that you or others hang out at Ennis and wait for the next flight or three to be delayed for mechanical reasons, and try for citizens' arrests on every troop you see. If it becomes annoying enough, I'm sure there will be some reaction at government/embassy levels.

In any case, let us hypothetically stipulate that Ennis is not covered by the blanket permission for wear of the uniform. Has anyone, anywhere, submitted any evidence, or even hypothesis to show that in such a case the US did not make, a 'request for exception', and indeed receive such? After all, if they were nice enough to request permission for the airport area, why wouldn't they request for Ennis?

NTM

RedPlanet

Manic Moran wrote:

Has anyone, anywhere, submitted any evidence, or even hypothesis to show that in such a case the US did not make, a 'request for exception', and indeed receive such? After all, if they were nice enough to request permission for the airport area, why wouldn't they request for Ennis?
NTM

Well i certainly can't prove a negative.
That is ridiculous.
It's is your hypothesis, you prove it.

AbusesToilets

No but you can certainly harp on about the moral greatness of someone acting like a muppet and trying to arrest a bunch of guys standing around having a smoke.

RedPlanet

AbusesToilets wrote:

No but you can certainly harp on about the moral greatness of someone acting like a muppet and trying to arrest a bunch of guys standing around having a smoke.

Not "guys", idiots : Frontline Soldiers for Freedom

Lemming

RedPlanet wrote:

Not "guys", idiots : Frontline Soldiers for Freedom

I'd not exactly consider Shannon or Ennis or pretty much anywhere in Ireland to be "on the frontline", so how could they be "frontline soldiers for freedom" since they're not on any frontline?

RedPlanet

Lemming wrote:

I'd not exactly consider Shannon or Ennis or pretty much anywhere in Ireland to be "on the frontline", so how could they be "frontline soldiers for freedom" since they're not on any frontline?

Um golly gee Lemming.... could it be that they are in transit, to the Frontline??

Fratton Fred

I suggest we declare war on the US with immediate effect.

When we start taking in all those POWs, will they be required to take off their uniforms once they leave Shannon airport (or it's imediate vicinity), if so, maybe we could get a deal from Penny's on a few thousand pairs of jeans, tee-shirts and wellies.

Better start loading the sidewinders on the Cessna's as well, this could get nasty:D

RedPlanet

POW's?
Naw, we'll just declare them "unlawful combatants" and ship them all to Craggy Island.